[PalmettoTree]

we all know how to zero. I would like to focus on other variables that may influence shooting both before and after zeroing. These will include temperature of the gun, atmosphere, ammo variations and any other factors that you might be experiencing.

Let's let the discussion vary based on your experiences, problems and tricks you that help or hurt your precision and accuracy.

 

[AquaHull]

Don't rest the gun barrel on the sandbags.

 

[PrepConsultant]

WIND.. I once heard that an amateur is concerned about trajectory. A professional is concerned with wind effect. And as stated above.. NEVER let the barrel touch ANYTHING when you are shooting..

 

[BigCheeseStick]

WOW! This list would go into the thousands. :shock:

Every individual gun I've handled presents a dozen different variables from even the same model gun next to it. I can't think of a gun I own I haven't done nearly a dozen modifications or "upgrades" to to improve performance one way or another. Other than a used H&R break open that was beautiful simplistic perfection right out of the store (EVEN THE TRIGGER!). It belonged to the Williams Gun Sights gunsmith prior to me. So was very well tinkered with ahead of time.

Anytime I get my hands on a new gun I immediately & completely dissemble it for proper cleaning, inspection, and to fully understand it's operating principles to see where refinements can be made... YEAH, I'm an engineer.

Bedding, stock fit, action screw tightness, trigger creep, weight, break, over travel, chamber & action dimensions, tolerances, stress in the metals (relieved by cryo treating), the possibilities that all effect accuracy just never stop!

Example: Own a Glock? "Perfection" can be vastly improved with a little polishing and stone work. MUCH better trigger, smoother, consistent operation!
G30:
View attachment 2946 View attachment 2947

Over travel set screw
View attachment 2948 View attachment 2949

Ruger MKIII Hunter: Added Power Customs titanium firing pin and extractor, reduced headspace, removed LCI spur, added BAM bushing, etc.. Reliability is impeccable now.
View attachment 2950

 

[1skrewsloose]

I have found proper breathing technique to be beneficial to beginners and seasoned folks who forget to use it. Human error plays the most part in my experience.

 

[PrepConsultant]

I have a wind effect calculation I will post later on.. It is pretty damn close and you can do it in your head.. It works for .308 in 168 and 175gr but the 168gr in inferior past 600yds. There is also a calculation you can do and use it for 5.56,300 win mag,338 Lapua and the 50bmg..

 

[BigCheeseStick]

If anyone is really serious about becoming a better marksman this book teaches lifetimes of knowledge. AMAZING STUFF!
View attachment 2951

 

[Prepadoodle]

Watch TiborasaurusRex's "Sniper 101" series on YouTube. Although mostly aimed at long range shooting, he covers every aspect affecting accuracy. But don't expect to finish this graduate level course in a hurry: the latest in the series is part 70 and it will take you about 50 hours to watch them all.

 

[PaulS]

If you want to find out how accurate your weapon/ammo combination is then use a rest. (one that cradles the fore end at 1/3 of its length from the action toward the muzzle, has a positive stop at that location to prevent moving it forward past that point and always back it off the stop just a skinny hair, and that supports the butt stock with a form-fitting sand bag) Do not touch anything on the rifle except the trigger and adjust your point of aim by squeezing the rear bag. Let your gun recoil freely for at least two inches.

After you find out how accurate your rifle is then if you want to see how accurate you are fire it standing off hand with no support. (that will be humiliating even at 100 yards unless you are very practiced)

Always dry fire any firearm at least twice as many times as you fire live rounds.

Keep the basics in mind with every shot.

0. Breathe
1. target acquisition
2. sight alignment
3. breathe
4. squeeze (with only your finger)

A consistent grip is essential with handguns just as a consistent mount is essential for rifle accuracy. Any change in your handling will affect your point of impact.

 

[Infidel]

If anyone is really serious about becoming a better marksman this book teaches lifetimes of knowledge. AMAZING STUFF!
View attachment 2951

There's a lot of excellent general marksmanship information in that book but I think it gets overlooked because of the title. If they had called it The Ultimate Marksman instead I think it would have been a lot better accepted.

-Infidel

 

[alterego]

Variations in ammunition,

I do not believe most persons realize how much a change in ammunition manufacturer and type affect your zero. I see people being very finicky about which shot gun slugs they stick with, but rifle ammo does not seam to matter, they believe all 150 Gr. 30-06 rounds shoot the same.

THEY DONT.

.22 caliber rim fire ammo is the most finicky of all rifle rounds in MHO

 

[PalmettoTree]

Thank to everyone. So far I have found Remington ammo to be the least reliable. I have found good ammo does not give me powder burns. (I'm left handed so most of you may not have had the experience.

I was ignorant about not sandbagging the barrel.

I'll need to purchase a good rest. Should I get a remote trigger? What about a shock absorber that returns the gun firing position?

Some tell me I do not let the gun cool enough between three round shots. Does anyone track temperature?

 

[PrepConsultant]

I prefer to use a cold barrel, You don't have time to heat up a barrel if you are hunting deer or whatever two legged animals you are shooting at. It's not like they give you a few warm up shots to heat up the barrel. So I like to see that first shot out of the barrel hit the bulls eye.

 

[PalmettoTree]

That is not quite what I meant but I agree. However I do not put 20 minutes between adjustments.

 

[BigCheeseStick]

Call up a couple local machine shops and ask them where they get parts heat treated. Then get hold of those places and ask about cryo treating. Takes a little effort to find a place thats close by to you. But WELL worth it!

Once cryo treated you can heat the shat out of the barrel and see little to no deflection even at 1,000 yards. I had found a teeny shop in Michigan that would put a barrel in with a batch of their normal work for $20 and a case of beer. Best improvement you'll ever do to any rifle imo. And COMPLETELY negates the need for bull barrels (that are a total PITA anyway imo).

I haven't found a need for it in SC yet. Only gun I've bought since moving here is a Ruger LCP. Not much "long range" shooting going on there.

 

[ApexPredator]

Could you explain how cryo treating works I am no metallurgist. I know our snipers much prefer the heavy barrels because of the continued accuracy after multiple rounds and they pretty much get what they want so why do they not have cryo treated barrels. OR DO THEY??

 

[BigCheeseStick]

I'll try to put it in a nut shell best I can. Working metal into any kind of shape imprints stress on it. Each time you fire a rifle the barrel and action absorb the heat from the round going off and the friction of the bullet passing through. So the more you fire it, the hotter it gets (youtube has plenty of videos of guys lighting the wood stocks of AK's on fire from pumping several hundreds of rounds through them as fast as they can). As heat builds, the stresses in the metal will cause some areas to contract, and some areas to expand as the metal tries to return to it's original shape. Causing the barrel to deflect as it warms up and throw your point of impact off.

Lets say you zero your rifle on a nice sunny summer day when it's 95 degrees out. Take that rifle out in deer season when it's 20 degrees and depending on the stresses in the metal it may be off at even 100 yards by an inch or more.

You fire your rifle 20 times zeroing it one day. After several shots and the barrel is nice and hot, and that's when you've zeroed in your sights... Next day you take it out and the first shot out of a cold bore might be off. You get the idea.

Almost NO manufacture is going to waste time and money cryo treating because some have tried, and it's an expensive process for them because its time consuming and slows production DRASTICALLY. Worse yet, the customer can't "see it".

If company A makes a rifle that's "more accurate because it's got special gold speckled paint on it", and company B makes a rifle that's "more accurate because it has cryo treating", customers have proven they will buy the one with gold speckled paint and swear loyalty to it like it's a religion because they can see it. Which means you can brag about it, which means "it's better". Stupid, but we all know it's true.

Bull barrels work! The thicker the metal, the longer it takes to heat up, the more resistance it commonly will have to deflection (depends on what random stresses may be in that particular metal. COULD deflect MORE once eventually heated!). More importantly they "feel solid" and you the shooter / buyer SEE the difference. So you have confidence in it, and your shooting actually WILL improve with confidence in the weapon. Proven!

Bull barrels IMO suck because most obviously, their heavy. Also because they take farrrrrrrrrr longer to cool once heated up. Their heavy add stress to the receiver of the weapon. And it bothers me personally carrying one because in my mind I know primary reason it exists (as a marketing tool / "Idol"). THAT'S JUST ME THOUGH. SO HATERS RELAX!!! They DO work! As stated.

Cryo treating is a process where you freeze the crap out of the metal (putting it in a nutshell ), relieving nearly all stresses in it. No stress = no deflection. I've got half a dozen rifles in everything from .22lr, to .308 I've done testing on and cryo treating has proven effective in every one of them. Three of them DO have bull barrels, and it still improved them. One of them DRAMATICALLY. It again depends on how much stress is in each particular barrel. So results will vary. I've had receivers treated as well and am happy with the results.

Google: "Cryo treating barrel" for more info.

 

[AquaHull]

Put a bandaid on the pad of your trigger finger, use it to line up the trigger finger every time

 

[dwight55]

If you have ever read anything on Carlos Hathcock's method of training snipers/shooters, . . . they fired one shot per day. They could take an hour to get "in position", . . . there was no hurry, . . . but one shot, . . . and one only each day.

Additionally, . . . two other things were done: the shooter had to "call" his shot (left and a little high, . . . to the right, but not high or low, . . . etc.), . . . AND, . . . they kept a log book of the weather (including wind direction and speed), temp, general description (sunny and bright, . . . cool and misty, . . . darn right cold, . . . etc). That log book also logged that particular day's shot as to it's location relative to the old bulls eye.

They also made one adjustment per day to their sights, . . . based upon their experience and today's shooting. This should stop fairly quickly as they get a good zero.

Then they went back to the armory and thoroughly dismantled and cleaned their weapon.

All I've ever read about it says that the program worked absolutely well, . . . and mirrors what PrepConsultant said about the cold barrel.

Plus we all have to remember that there are very few people walking around who can out shoot their own weapon. For 90 or so % of the shots that miss the bulls eye, . . . it is human error that caused it to happen.

May God bless,
Dwight

 

[Infidel]

Fluted heavy barrels were all the rage for a while and a few manufacturers still use them, basically the flutes reduce the weight of the barrel as well as aid in cooling. The fluting on the barrel allows more surface area and therefor the barrel will cool faster. There has also been claims that barrel fluting helps stiffen the barrel. If I were going to buy a heavy barrel rifle I'd want the barrel fluted, seems like a win/win situation to me. As for cryo treating the barrel I have seen older Mini 14 owners that swear by it because it helps eliminate the vertical stringing that the older (pre 2004) Minis were known for. The vertical stringing in the Mini was a heat issue cause by the thin profile barrel used on them, they also suffered from "barrel whip" because of the thin profile barrel. The solution to the barrel whip tends to be some sort of dampening device most use a barrel strut that attaches to the barrel via clamps. Bottom line is these are all solutions for equipment related issues and don't have much to do with precision shooting. Dwight is quite right that the vast majority of shooters can't outshoot their rifles.

-Infidel