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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
I have seen a lot of people over the last couple of years both here and on a few other sites that think they will be able to survive after the s...t hits the fan in their homes in the cities. I have given this a lot of thought and my answer would be NO. First , you would have to survive the angry looter phase, which the largest part would be from a couple of days to a couple of months.
Then you would have he tougher and more careful scroungers going from building to building looking for anything that they could use.
So you have a larger then most back yard and you think that by planting a garden , it would provide you with enough food to keep you and your family going over the long winter months. Not possible. You can not grow enough food to provide for a family of say 4 in a city back yard to keep you going.
Even if you have a very large back yard, it would most likely fall prey to :"scroungers:" Keep in mind , that even if you have a two year supply of food stored, you would give yourself and your food away when you start cooking it. If you went outside, sooner or later, you would be spotted by someone else.

Water in the city afterwords would be a major concern.

Sewage would be yet another major concern

By any realistic standards , anything less then two fertile cleared acres would be a waste of your time and resources. Do you living in the city have two plus acres of good fertile land to plant and tend ? Not likely. If your one of the even less fortunate ones living in an apartment building, even less of a chance.

To survive a long term whatever, you need good fertile land, all year source of good clean drinking water and irrigation water, and method of sewage disposable.
\
So , all you people living in the city, give a lot of thoughts to your current plans to wait it out in the cities.
 

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..To survive a long term whatever, you need good fertile land, all year source of good clean drinking water and irrigation water, and method of sewage disposable. So , all you people living in the city, give a lot of thoughts to your current plans to wait it out in the cities.
Yeah,I'm no expert but i've made a list of what a place in the country MUST have in my opinion-
Good solid bear-proof cabin with window shutters.
Well concealed among trees in a fairly lowland area (will be warmer than mountains in winter)
Near deep running water (for drinking water and fishing, and to carry away slops and sewage)
Big thick woods nearby for hunting and trapping.(not that i know how to do that stuff, but hopefully i'll get a little group together with an expert in it).
Good fertile open land nearby for growing crops.(again, i know zilch about it but hopefully my group will have an agriculturist in it).
Fairly near the coast so we can do trips to collect assorted edible cockles and mussels and things from rockpools, and bring seawater back to extract valuable salt from it.

This cabin pic on the net looks reasonably good, but the glass windows are too big and unprotected, anything could smash its way in!
The river seems too shallow to have many decent fish in it, but at least it's better than no river.
Nice thick woods hiding the cabin, but I dunno if there's any open land nearby for growing crops.

 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Here is what I think in your shoes I would do. I would take my weekends, and start driving towards the country area , not using more then 1 full tank of gas.
Then from there , I would start looking around at rural and I mean rural property for a few acres, with no improvements and see if it could be suitable for me and mine.
From there, I would put the minimum down I could, in order to keep any and all of my hard cash still available.
Next, after the closing, I would buy a conex or shipping container, and have it transported to MY new property. Then, if you have a small hill, and some more avail. cash, hire a local backhoe owner and operator to come and do a cut slash into said hill. Have him drag the container into the slash and back fill all possible other then the entrance.
Next, I would replant a few small fast growing trees to conceal the entrance to the container.

Now, you have a concealed place , fairly secure to start stocking your nec. items to sustain life, it is yours so less likely of anyone trying to build a house there,and also better sleep at night.

Now, you have a place to put things, you own the land, and now you can start looking for work in the local area. Should you find a job, then you can buy an older single wide mobil, sometimes really cheap and have that taken to your property and set up. Pop in a septic tank and you are almost there. Now as you get settled, you can start buying some solar gear and that will make a real difference in your lives.

Next thing, is , late fall , hire someone with a garden type tractor, that is, someone with a working tractor for farming etc. Much different then construction type equipment.
Till the land and lt it sit until spring, and at that point, start planting your food garden. Plan it out carefully and you will sustain far better then before you ever left the city. No, you most likely will not make the money you were making in the city , but on the other hand, you won't need as much either. Life will get better after a year or two of learning and loseing on farming. They always come together
If you think that 1/4 of your tillable land will give you enough potatoes , then plant more. You will lose some to varmits, and weather and it is just somehting that happens. Part of life. But you will have made a plan , followed it, and much better off for it to survive what ever comes.
 

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I've been considering this very thing. It starts to get serious when you find out that all of your "old buddies" are even older--and dead. Assuming to rely on friends and compatriots might actually dissolve, and in my case, lost at the drop of a hat.

I had a buddy that was simply called "Dick." Handsome guy, good sense of humor, and no one could run as fast and meet girls faster than Dick. I did not know if he was still on a forum (or any forum, for that matter) when not only did he fail to post, but older friends had not heard of a recent post. In the "bad old days" he lived with his parents across the highway, and I lived in a close-by subdivision. We even spent our younger years in the same classes, and then by high school we all got shunted off to new buildings and teachers.

Now, as for "food-stuffs and knives/matches," we were panicked every time we viewed a TV show on crime and violence. We would take a long, serious walk every morning and find all the serious adult items we might need for a pandemic. After all, we had situations with "duck and cover" in 2nd grade, and now that we were in fifth grade we just assumed the new brick school building would save us from any and all shrapnel.

However, the school system at that time (or 'vintage' as I opined) insisted on breaking up any and all of us, which I assumed would make us all frightened, and ergo, easier to handle. After all, we were all told that German mercenaries were just a parachute-jump away and hiding us under the desks would save us all.

Sadly, I never met a Nazi officer through all of my high school years. I did meet such a guy in college, but he was only my age and he had not even seen a Luftwaffe compatriot. I did take two years of German in high school, after all, the iron boot of Joseph Goebbels could be anywhere...
 

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Not a problem.
We live on a dead end dirt road 6 miles outside a one stop light town.
 

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Just so you know, thick, deep woods are very thin on big game. It’s the fringe areas between agriculture lands and forests that have the greatest concentrations of big game for hunting. Deep woods lack the ground browse that big game need but provide good cover for safety. Also deep woods are not good for foraging. The dense tree canopy limits forest floor growth. Again, the fringe area (ecotone) is the prime spot for foraging.
Just a thought to keep in mind while looking for land.
 

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I have seen a lot of people over the last couple of years both here and on a few other sites that think they will be able to survive after the s...t hits the fan in their homes in the cities. I have given this a lot of thought and my answer would be NO. First , you would have to survive the angry looter phase, which the largest part would be from a couple of days to a couple of months.
Then you would have he tougher and more careful scroungers going from building to building looking for anything that they could use.
So you have a larger then most back yard and you think that by planting a garden , it would provide you with enough food to keep you and your family going over the long winter months. Not possible. You can not grow enough food to provide for a family of say 4 in a city back yard to keep you going.
Even if you have a very large back yard, it would most likely fall prey to :"scroungers:" Keep in mind , that even if you have a two year supply of food stored, you would give yourself and your food away when you start cooking it. If you went outside, sooner or later, you would be spotted by someone else.

Water in the city afterwords would be a major concern.

Sewage would be yet another major concern

By any realistic standards , anything less then two fertile cleared acres would be a waste of your time and resources. Do you living in the city have two plus acres of good fertile land to plant and tend ? Not likely. If your one of the even less fortunate ones living in an apartment building, even less of a chance.

To survive a long term whatever, you need good fertile land, all year source of good clean drinking water and irrigation water, and method of sewage disposable.
\
So , all you people living in the city, give a lot of thoughts to your current plans to wait it out in the cities.
Many could survive. It's been done before. Serejevo during the Bosnian wars...etc. Not pretty, but lots of people survived. Definitely limits your options.http://www.survivalistboards.com/showthread.php?t=189395
 

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Here is what I think in your shoes I would do. I would take my weekends, and start driving towards the country area , not using more then 1 full tank of gas.
Then from there , I would start looking around at rural and I mean rural property for a few acres, with no improvements and see if it could be suitable for me and mine.
From there, I would put the minimum down I could, in order to keep any and all of my hard cash still available.
Next, after the closing, I would buy a conex or shipping container, and have it transported to MY new property. Then, if you have a small hill, and some more avail. cash, hire a local backhoe owner and operator to come and do a cut slash into said hill. Have him drag the container into the slash and back fill all possible other then the entrance.
Next, I would replant a few small fast growing trees to conceal the entrance to the container.

Now, you have a concealed place , fairly secure to start stocking your nec. items to sustain life, it is yours so less likely of anyone trying to build a house there,and also better sleep at night.

Now, you have a place to put things, you own the land, and now you can start looking for work in the local area. Should you find a job, then you can buy an older single wide mobil, sometimes really cheap and have that taken to your property and set up. Pop in a septic tank and you are almost there. Now as you get settled, you can start buying some solar gear and that will make a real difference in your lives.

Next thing, is , late fall , hire someone with a garden type tractor, that is, someone with a working tractor for farming etc. Much different then construction type equipment.
Till the land and lt it sit until spring, and at that point, start planting your food garden. Plan it out carefully and you will sustain far better then before you ever left the city. No, you most likely will not make the money you were making in the city , but on the other hand, you won't need as much either. Life will get better after a year or two of learning and loseing on farming. They always come together
If you think that 1/4 of your tillable land will give you enough potatoes , then plant more. You will lose some to varmits, and weather and it is just somehting that happens. Part of life. But you will have made a plan , followed it, and much better off for it to survive what ever comes.
Bugging out to a place where you aren't known to locals, is a death trap. It takes a community to grow anything more than a hobby garden. Division of labor, defense, etc. Those communities won't let in strangers in a SHTF or TEOTWAWKI. They'll pick you off from a distance and take your stuff. So you either get off the grid and integrate yourself in a local community early... or make plans to survive in a city/suburbs under chaotic lawlessness.. or try to find a middle ground in a small town in a semi-rural area reasonably far from major rural areas but somewhere you can ply your trade until things fall apart, which is my play. GLTA.
 

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in a small town in a semi-rural area reasonably far from major rural areas

Well, that's where I live. Near enough to buy gasoline easily, close enough to cops I know and trust, and suburban enough to see that neighbors all lock down their garage doors. No one has to "snoop around" because we've all know each other for decades. Consider this type of an area much like the initial pilgrims who lived on the extreme coast. They were close enough to friends and compatriots and far enough away from idiots that just liked to think up bizarre rules.
 

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I live in West Milwaukee, I would never make it. If the SHTF, I'm going to try and make it out of the city and move west to my parents out in the country. No way I'll stay I'm Milwaukee.
 

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No way I'll stay I'm Milwaukee.

Has it gotten that bad? I was born and raised in Milwaukee, along with most of my cousins. I enjoyed the city, and even went to some of the schools before my dad moved us to the suburbs.

The area where I first grew up was N. 36th Street. The entire block was kids my age, and I don't remember anyone getting kidnapped, arrested or locked in their bedroom. Moving out to the "burbs" was like walking on the dark side of The Moon for me. My wife and I did a tour of the old places a few months ago. Yikes, the wide open spaces were now cramped with every car, convertible and camping truck. I now live a stone's throw from a church, well, at least it's quiet...
 

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I've been here 3 years in West Milwaukee across from the VA on 52nd street and I like it alot. It's not bad here but north Milwaukee is a crap hole, lots of crime.
 

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Urban dweller will ride it out as long as I can and then make my escape under cover of darkness in the early hours on my 29er hardtail into the mountains not too far from here. Unless you are really out of the way the golden hoard is going to find you.

Godspeed.
 

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If you live in a major city 100K and up you are probably F---ed.

However, one must not think that one can go it alone. The first thing on evaluating your new location is get a handle on just what is there and within say a ten mile radius of your residence.

Catalog everything and that includes farms, warehouses, medical facilities, water sources and the like.

We moved from a marginally acceptable small town to one of decent size (15K) and from our evaluation, there's just about everything needed and remote enough to keep away the refugee's from several metropolitan areas.
 

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If you live in a major city 100K and up you are probably F---ed.

However, one must not think that one can go it alone. The first thing on evaluating your new location is get a handle on just what is there and within say a ten mile radius of your residence.

Catalog everything and that includes farms, warehouses, medical facilities, water sources and the like.

We moved from a marginally acceptable small town to one of decent size (15K) and from our evaluation, there's just about everything needed and remote enough to keep away the refugee's from several metropolitan areas.
Lots of folks have survived seiges and major wars inside large cities. There was much pain, violence, and death of course - not everyone survived. But it is possible. Certainly not advisable if you have a choice, but possible.
 
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