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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
I bought a new Remington R-25 in .308 recently (my gun dealer had one left at pre-panic pricing). I want to go to the range to shoot it and sight it in, so I do what you are supposed to do and disassemble it to give it a good cleaning first.

The Remington R-25 is based off the DPMS LR-308, with a 20" heavy barrel with fluting on the end of the barrel past the aluminum hand guard and a recessed muzzle crown to enhance accuracy, and these guns have a really good reputation for accuracy, and I wanted an AR I could use for hunting, so I bought this rifle. A feature the rifle had I really liked is there is no slop or movement between the upper and lower in these rifles, which also serves to enhance accuracy.

I always soak rifle parts for 24 hours in CLP when I clean them to help remove factory crud and permeate the metal pores with lubricant.

I try to push the takedown pin out by hand - won't budge. I use a metal punch to nudge the pin, still won't budge. Tight tolerances, a good thing. So I get a ball peen hammer and the right size punch and tap the takedown pin out.

Normally, this is an uneventful task. But this weird little serrated edge washer falls onto my cleaning mat when I pivot the upper away from the lower. I look at the part and frown, not happy it showed up uninvited. So I set it aside and tap out the pivot pin, and a little nut falls out onto the mat. It has matching serrated marks on the back of the nut, to show the washer and nut were once mated somewhere.

Well, I had never seen a part like this before, so I break out the exploded view diagram from the very informative owner's manual Remington provided with the rifle, and there is no such part anywhere, which does not surprise me because I had never seen one like this before.

These two metal parts were apparently laying inside the trigger housing. I had cycled the gun by hand a few times, and shouldered it a lot, but I never heard anything rattle or clank. I had dropped the mag and cleared the gun and never had a clue there were any loose parts inside....

This little nut and washer somehow found a home in the rifle during its production or journey into my hands. Had I just run the gun without the (manufacturer recommended) initial cleaning procedure, under .308 recoil, these two little metal parts would have done some serious damage up inside the bolt carrier and chamber - or worse....

So, thought I would share this little anecdote as to why you should always clean a gun before firing it for the first time.

These parts could have fallen into the trigger housing when someone racked the charging handle or played with the gun at the dealership. So I am not blaming Remington, although it is possible the nut and washer came from the manufacturer.

The bottom line, though, is this: always clean a gun before you shoot it for the first time - who knows what you may find, or what you may save, in the process....

I checked function on the gun and it worked fine, but it had done so before I disassembled it for the initial cleaning, too....

I think I will give this gun a second cleaning, just to make sure. A lesson learned....
 

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If it was new I'd let the Mfg. know so it doesn't happen to the next guy. Probably something that is supposed to be removed in the final phase of production. Scary stuff!
 

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That indeed is a good reason to clean even a new gun before you fire it. I have also noticed that often times there will be burs and metal shavings from the machining process in barrels so its a good idea to at least run a few patches through the barrel to removes these...cant get good accuracy that you have paid for if you shove them out the end of the barrel at 2800 fps with a bullet! Im anal retentive about accuracy and will go a step further and load up a few rounds with lapping compound or buy a box and send those down the barrel first and then reclean before I sit down at the bench and do any further firing. The results are often well worth the minor inconvience and cost.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
If it was new I'd let the Mfg. know so it doesn't happen to the next guy. Probably something that is supposed to be removed in the final phase of production. Scary stuff!
That's a good idea, csi-tech!

I plan to call Remington's Customer Service on Tuesday to report it, and see what they want to do. It is unusual to say the least....
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
I agree, LunaticFringe, proper barrel break-in is important, since this barrel is not chrome-lined. I think it is Remonite coated, which is a nitro-carburizing treatment that also helps with accuracy.

Remington and DPMS don't reveal a lot about these guns publicly, protecting their proprietary designs from competitors, understandably.

I really like the rifle, so hopefully Remington CS will clear up the mystery nut and washer issue and I can go shoot it next week....

I have some vacation time off, so I want to hit the range.
 

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As some one with experience owning, shooting, and working on dozens of GENUINE OLD Military Issue AR 10 rifles, as well as three of the Remington/DPMS R25 modern AR10/AR 15 hybrids,
IMHO,
the R25 is one of the best values available in a semi auto military type rifle.

AR 10/R25 at the top

The trick with the R25 is that they come with absolutely HORRIBLE triggers, and hammer springs that may be too light for reliable ignition of 7.62 NATO military surplus primers. The hammer spring and trigger may/may not be easily upgraded with a drop in AR 10/AR 15 replacement. I can recommend the Armalite three weight adjustable AR 15 trigger, but the RRA AR 15 match trigger will NOT drop in.

Once you do a decent trigger job, your R25 will probably shoot SUB-moa. Two of mine did. One of these shot five out of seven FACTORY loads SUB-MOA, including 110 gr, 125 gr, and 200 gr SP. Can't expect that kind of accuracy with most other inexpensive semi auto rifles.

As for reliablity,
IF you use the plastic AR10 Pmags [ dedicated for the DPMS branded types ], you will find virtually zero failures to feed. The original Dutch built AR 10 rifles had great reliability and durability in real world battle use in the Sudan, even with horrible maintenance and cleaning. These original AR10 type rifles did not have a forward assist, and never needed one.
BTDT
LAZ 1
[;{)
 

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I'm a nazi about breaking in barrels

Shoot 1 round and completely clean, do this for at least 5 rounds but 10 is better

Shoot 2 rounds and completely clean, 10x

Shoot 3 rounds and completely clean 10x

Completely clean means alternating carbon cleaning and copper cleaning until you get perfect patches. It takes a long time but as you hone the barrel it also get easier and shot groups get tighter.

To break In a barrel will take about 700-1000 patches.

I have a friend that is having accuracy issues with a 40 year old .243 and I am getting that gun to rework. I'll clean e barrel down to bare metal and then break it in again as I described. More than likely ill get back the accuracy that was lost. This friend shoots a LOT of game but isn't a shooter, I doubt the gun has 1000 rounds through it.
 
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Sounds like almost all the farmers i know.. Shoot three rounds a year. and clean the gun every five years with the attitude of.. I only shot three rounds what's the big deal..
I'm a nazi about breaking in barrels

Shoot 1 round and completely clean, do this for at least 5 rounds but 10 is better

Shoot 2 rounds and completely clean, 10x

Shoot 3 rounds and completely clean 10x

Completely clean means alternating carbon cleaning and copper cleaning until you get perfect patches. It takes a long time but as you hone the barrel it also get easier and shot groups get tighter.

To break In a barrel will take about 700-1000 patches.

I have a friend that is having accuracy issues with a 40 year old .243 and I am getting that gun to rework. I'll clean e barrel down to bare metal and then break it in again as I described. More than likely ill get back the accuracy that was lost. This friend shoots a LOT of game but isn't a shooter, I doubt the gun has 1000 rounds through it.
 
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