[Sourdough]

Survivalists plan to be prepared for whatever comes.
Preppers tend to plan for some specific occurance(s)

I love your whole post. I do feel "many" will miss what I believe was your intended communication.

Preppers prepare for finite events, which have a finite time period. and are considered "probable".


Prepping is simply for "BRIDGING" the first stage of survival. After that is "Instant" Death or a horrific prolonged period of Survival, which will ultimately culminate in failure to survive.

 

[Kauboy]

I love your whole post. I do feel "many" will miss what I believe was your intended communication.

Preppers prepare for finite events, which have a finite time period. and are considered "probable".


Prepping is simply for "BRIDGING" the first stage of survival. After that is "Instant" Death or a horrific prolonged period of Survival, which will ultimately culminate in Death.

For argument's sake, I'll accept your premise. (preppers=short term, survivalists=long term)
Then I must ask, which makes more sense to do?
Prepare for highly likely emergency scenarios that have historical precedence, and are known to eventually subside, returning to normalcy?
or...
Prepare for lifelong living in a world completely destroyed, never to recover?

One has merit because it can be accurately predicted based on past events.
The other is entirely rooted in the world of fantasy, as no such life-ending scenario has ever played out on this planet while humans have walked it.
That is not to say it can't. Pay close attention to what I mean.
A rock the size of Texas could hit the planet and "survivalists" might endure longer than "preppers". But there won't be enough to restart humanity, so it would only prolong the inevitable.

Short of that... economic collapse, war, nuclear winter, extreme weather, solar flares, HEMPs, etc... any prepper worth their salt will survive just fine, having already planned to handle a gradient of extremes in their preparedness goals.
Perhaps we should think of this, not as a dichotomy, but as a spectrum.
Sheep->eyes open->emergency fund->3 months of food/water->"prepper"->long-term prepper->survivalist
All "preppers" are on their way to being "survivalists", but self-proclaimed "survivalists" may have skipped some steps, and will find themselves unprepared in their haste to achieve what they consider the pinnacle.

A survivalist is really just a prepper with fewer toys, let's be honest.

 

[Sourdough]

For argument's sake, I'll accept your premise. (preppers=short term, survivalists=long term)
Then I must ask, which makes more sense to do?
Prepare for highly likely emergency scenarios that have historical precedence, and are known to eventually subside, returning to normalcy?
or...
Prepare for lifelong living in a world completely destroyed, never to recover?

One has merit because it can be accurately predicted based on past events.
The other is entirely rooted in the world of fantasy, as no such life-ending scenario has ever played out on this planet while humans have walked it.
That is not to say it can't. Pay close attention to what I mean.
A rock the size of Texas could hit the planet and "survivalists" might endure longer than "preppers". But there won't be enough to restart humanity, so it would only prolong the inevitable.

Short of that... economic collapse, war, nuclear winter, extreme weather, solar flares, HEMPs, etc... any prepper worth their salt will survive just fine, having already planned to handle a gradient of extremes in their preparedness goals.
Perhaps we should think of this, not as a dichotomy, but as a spectrum.
Sheep->eyes open->emergency fund->3 months of food/water->"prepper"->long-term prepper->survivalist
All "preppers" are on their way to being "survivalists", but self-proclaimed "survivalists" may have skipped some steps, and will find themselves unprepared in their haste to achieve what they consider the pinnacle.

A survivalist is really just a prepper with fewer toys, let's be honest.

I would suggest take this to a new thread. Just copy your total post and start a new thread. Or if you prefer, I'll answer here. But this is a subject dear to me. And could drag on & on.

The short-short-short answer is the distinction between Old School and New School prepping.

 

[OrganikRoots]

A survivalist thinks their beans are better than a prepper's beans.
Why?
Because they are "survivalist" beans ...

 

[NMPRN]

Survivalist don't eat beans, they eat legumes. They also don't pee, they urinate.

 

[charito]

If one totally believed that. Would it not be in a Preppers best interest, to move to a location more rural or remote..???

Edited: for clarification.

Remoteness doesn't offer any guarantee.
Besides, not everyone has the luxury of being able to uproot and move - especially on the basis of what could happen.

If society collapses (SHTF of the worse kind) - people will want to leave and go to places where they'd never trekked before.
They could end up in your backyard, no matter how remote you are.

 

[charito]

If the "REAL GOAL" is survival, then if studied honestly, there are many higher priority things to be "OBSESSIED" with then firearms.

Firearms are cheap and easy labor to procure, true enhanced survival probability requires harder physical labor, intelligence, study, devotion, and sacrifice of current desires.

Can you explain what you mean by "obsession to firearms?"

 

[charito]

Another point to consider is there are a great number of preppers that think they are going to go into the woods and live off small game like rabbits or squirrels and become the next Jeremiah Johnson Esq figure when in reality the woods are going to be full of people with the same idea. Additionally there have been are and will continue to be times when you call 911 and they are so overrun they don't answer your call or do and there is no help to send. Firearms are important but so are good non perishable food supplies or better yet a sustainible food supply, basic fire fighting equipment, basic medical equipment, adequate over the counter medications, tools to remove debris, tools to shut off utilities, solid doors/windows with locks on them, and a million other things that I am forgetting.

@Sourdough

Having firearms doesn't negate that they can also live off the land, and that includes farming. They can do both.

Although mind you, I think I get the drift of what you mean - the Jeremiah Johnsons - there are those who seem to fantasize of prepping as some kind of an action adventure.

 

[Sourdough]

I think I get the drift of what you mean - the Jeremiah Johnsons - there are those who seem to fantasize of prepping as some kind of an action adventure.

There is a clear distinction between fantasize and having lived it for decades. In one it is a wet dream, in the other it is decades of experience.

 

[Sourdough]

Can you explain what you mean by "obsession to firearms?"

If the "GOAL" is survival. There are many tools and skills. For urban dwellers and semi-urban dwellers one or two firearms may be prudent. You're not going to survive even two fire fights uninjured. The goal is survival, real world survival. Many things will enhance the probability of survival more than firearms.

 

[Back Pack Hack]

There is a clear distinction between fantasize and having lived it for decades. In one it is a wet dream, in the other it is decades of experience.

So if one hasn't 'lived it for decades', they default to being obsessed and fantasizing?

 

[Sourdough]

So if one hasn't 'lived it for decades', they default to being obsessed and fantasizing?

Not sure what your point is. I think you are trying to rationalize a "hoped for" outcome.

You either have days, weeks, months, years, decades having firsthand experience having lived in a future environment or you will be at a substantial disadvantage of survival.

Think in terms of employment and a job opening. You're either hoping they will hire you with having no experience and they will train you, or you have 23 years' experience doing that work.

Or think of it this way, one person was born and raised in the South-side of Chicago in a day-to-day survival environment. Or they were born and raised on 5'th avenue NY. If thing go ugly, one will have a lifetime of living what the other will be thrust into.

 

[Kauboy]

The prepper mindset is one of building a sufficient means to survive a transitional period of emergency until normalcy returns.
The survivalist mindset is one of building a sufficient means of sustaining life indefinitely, regardless of a return to normalcy.
Is that fair?

If so, one isn't necessarily better than the other. They're just different perspectives and goals.
For some, the likelihood of a disaster/emergency lasting indefinitely, or causing a scenario where life never returns to any form of civilized society, is subjectively sufficiently high to prepare for.
For others, it's not, as such an event has never happened before.
In the end, when the meteor hits, survivalist will indeed enjoy the last laugh... just before humans finally go extinct.

 

[Back Pack Hack]

Not sure what your point is. I think you are trying to rationalize a "hoped for" outcome.

You either have days, weeks, months, years, decades having firsthand experience having lived in a future environment or you will be at a substantial disadvantage of survival.

Think in terms of employment and a job opening. You're either hoping they will hire you with having no experience and they will train you, or you have 23 years' experience doing that work.

Or think of it this way, one person was born and raised in the South-side of Chicago in a day-to-day survival environment. Or they were born and raised on 5'th avenue NY. If thing go ugly, one will have a lifetime of living what the other will be thrust into.

My point is: You come across with having the attitude that if one hasn't had "decades of experience' with something, they're obsessed with it because it's new and shiny. And you lump everyone but you into the latter category. Just because we're preparing we're ONLY obsessed with firearms. You can't seem to accept any other option.

This is simply not true. I own a lot of 'em. I didn't grow up with them. My dad had a Winchester shotgun and the only time I ever saw it was when he sold it at an auction. But just because I didn't have 'decades of experience' doesn't make me obsessed with them now. Stop pigeon-holing everyone who doesn't fit your lifestyle.

 

[Sourdough]

The prepper mindset is one of building a sufficient means to survive a transitional period of emergency until normalcy returns.
The survivalist mindset is one of building a sufficient means of sustaining life indefinitely, regardless of a return to normalcy.
Is that fair?

Accurate, I can endorse that.

For others, it's not, as such an event has never happened before.

Sorry, that is not close to accurate.

 

[Sourdough]

My point is: You come across with having the attitude that if one hasn't had "decades of experience' with something, they're obsessed with it because it's new and shiny. And you lump everyone but you into the latter category. Just because we're preparing we're ONLY obsessed with firearms. You can't seem to accept any other option.

This is simply not true. I own a lot of 'em. I didn't grow up with them. My dad had a Winchester shotgun and the only time I ever saw it was when he sold it at an auction. But just because I didn't have 'decades of experience' doesn't make me obsessed with them now. Stop pigeon-holing everyone who doesn't fit your lifestyle.

You "Quoted" my post # 52

Please reread post # 52 and point to where anything in that post made the slightest mention of firearms. Just one sentence. My post made zero reference to firearms. It spoke clearly reference the skillset for surviving a different social environment.

I have zero opposition to the ownership of firearms. I strongly feel there are more prudent tools for any transition period. And survival post transition period.

 

[Kauboy]

Sorry, that is not close to accurate.

History says it is.
As evidence... We're conversing right now in this manner... Case closed.

 

[Crabby Abby]

Firearms add variety to the toolbox. Like all tools, one should be proficient with them. I am no more obsessed with them as I am a 8 pound splitting maul. Doesn't matter how far out in the boonies I live, I need tools.

Sourdough is right, unless you're running frequent drills with your plan to identify deficiencies and weaknesses, your plan is in the fantasy wishful thinking stage. Way back in the 1970s city people were buying remote bugout properties up in my neck of the woods. Their plans usually didn't go any farther than that and they'd ask my advice.

The assignment was to load necessities and leave their city home at 3:30, Friday of a holiday weekend, go directly to the property. The usual 2.5 hour trip becomes a 5.5 hour bumper to bumper ordeal, the drivers arrive shell shocked. How well did they pack in advance for the trip? The teen girl brought curling iron, blow dryer and electric make up mirror, and forgot her sleeping bag. The 9 & 10 year old boys only grabbed their school packs and their bee bee guns, they thought Dad packed the rest. The water lasted 1 day. The beautiful river had cowpie floats and leaches. They had to drive to the store every day, 15 miles one way on a rocky, rutted dirt road.

They gained invaluable knowledge moving the idea from Plan to Reality.

 

[Sourdough]

For some, the likelihood of a disaster/emergency lasting indefinitely, or causing a scenario where life never returns to any form of civilized society, is subjectively sufficiently high to prepare for.
For others, it's not, as such an event has never happened before.

Read what you posted. "MANY" maybe thousands of "Civilized Societies" have been TOTALLY 100% destroyed. They are gone, only the recorded history of their existence exists.

 

[Sourdough]

Firearms add variety to the toolbox. Like all tools, one should be proficient with them. I am no more obsessed with them as I am a 8 pound splitting maul. Doesn't matter how far out in the boonies I live, I need tools.

Sourdough is right, unless you're running frequent drills with your plan to identify deficiencies and weaknesses, your plan is in the fantasy wishful thinking stage. Way back in the 1970s city people were buying remote bugout properties up in my neck of the woods. Their plans usually didn't go any farther than that and they'd ask my advice.

The assignment was to load necessities and leave their city home at 3:30, Friday of a holiday weekend, go directly to the property. The usual 2.5 hour trip becomes a 5.5 hour bumper to bumper ordeal, the drivers arrive shell shocked. How well did they pack in advance for the trip? The teen girl brought curling iron, blow dryer and electric make up mirror, and forgot her sleeping bag. The 9 & 10 year old boys only grabbed their school packs and their bee bee guns, they thought Dad packed the rest. The water lasted 1 day. The beautiful river had cowpie floats and leaches. They had to drive to the store every day, 15 miles one way on a rocky, rutted dirt road.

They gained invaluable knowledge moving the idea from Plan to Reality.

Hard to grasp, but there were people in America who never knew about the "Great Depression" or even World War Two. They simply lived (happily) remote enough, that those realities were not known to them. Most I have read about were deep remote Alaska during that period.

Imagine if the SHTF, and a high percentage died, and you learned about it afterward.

When the world event known as the 9-11 "Twin Towers" event happened, I and the hunters I was guiding on the Canadian-Alaskan border learned of it two weeks later.