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Had to do a couple checks from the ATF. Gun of interest for investigation is found. Manufacture of gun with serial numbers is contacted where did it get wholesaled to.

Wholesaler is contacted for info of FFL they transferred it to. AKA your local gun shop.

Local gun shop gets call. They check their log book of who they sold gun to and transfer that info to ATF off the 4473.

Now once the business to closed that info is given to the ATF. From dealer sending log book and 4473's. So that info just doesn't disappear. I'm pretty sure it isn't just thrown away.
My understanding is that the ATF has a large storage facility somewhere on the east coast that they keep 4473's that have been turned into them. They are not destroyed.
 

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My understanding is that the ATF has a large storage facility somewhere on the east coast that they keep 4473's that have been turned into them. They are not destroyed.
They're also in the process of digitizing them. Of course, they're not calling it a 'registry', just a 'searchable database'.
 

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By law, they cannot have a searchable database, so even though they've admitted to creating a digital database, they swear it's not searchable.
Swearsy reallsys.

As an IT professional with 15 years of DB experience with multiple environments, I call BS.
 
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Watch and let us know what you think?
I here what is supposed to be and what is. I will relate a personal experience. I could not find a Glock 21 after moving, so I reported it to the PA state police. When the officer arrived he needed the serial number which I had neglected to record. He said do not say anything about this. In his squad car he got on a computer and looked at the approximate date of purchase and it was found in a list of all other handguns purchased in the state. There have been lists for a very long time as the gun was purchased in 1998. Say what you want or your own personal knowledge and experiences. I know what I watched and Call me whatever you like.
 
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I here what is supposed to be and what is. I will relate a personal experience. I could not find a Glock 21 after moving, so I reported it to the PA state police. When the officer arrived he needed the serial number which I had neglected to record. He said do not say anything about this. In his squad car he got on a computer and looked at the approximate date of purchase and it was found in a list of all other handguns purchased in the state. There have been lists for a very long time as the gun was purchased in 1998. Say what you want or your own personal knowledge and experiences. I know what I watched and Call me whatever you like.
To be clear, the only law I know of that forbids a searchable database registry is a federal one.
States likely have all kinds of lists.
 

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The law forbids the federal government...
 

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Same law.
It states that no "records required to be maintained under this chapter or any portion of the contents of such records, be recorded at or transferred to a facility owned, managed, or controlled by the United States or any State or any political subdivision thereof"
That part explicitly applies to all levels.
But then it goes on to include:
"nor that any system of registration of firearms, firearms owners, or firearms transactions or dispositions be established."
That's the part I think states are looking at and saying "we're not included in that clause, so it's ok".

Do I wish it was more restrictive and was written to explicitly include the states in that portion?
Yes I do.
But it's likely that states are using this lack of explicit mention to justify their own lists.

We need a court challenge to set precedent, or a competent congress to make it explicit.
Wonder which we'll get first. 🤔
 

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I sold a pistol at a LGS in WA state that I bought in Kommiefornia, at a LGS. I didn't tell the LGS anything about the firearm. He looked up the serial number in his computer and found where, when, and what I bought in CA! He even commented on how did I buy a gun not on the Kommiefornia registry...so, 2 different states with registry information...sounds federal to me...
 

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Same law.
It states that no "records required to be maintained under this chapter or any portion of the contents of such records, be recorded at or transferred to a facility owned, managed, or controlled by the United States or any State or any political subdivision thereof"
That part explicitly applies to all levels.
But then it goes on to include:
"nor that any system of registration of firearms, firearms owners, or firearms transactions or dispositions be established."
That's the part I think states are looking at and saying "we're not included in that clause, so it's ok".

Do I wish it was more restrictive and was written to explicitly include the states in that portion?
Yes I do.
But it's likely that states are using this lack of explicit mention to justify their own lists.

We need a court challenge to set precedent, or a competent congress to make it explicit.
Wonder which we'll get first. 🤔
Yes, it applies to all levels. "Political subdivisions" includes counties/parishes, cities, towns, villages, burroughs, ... even things like school, airport, water and park districts.
 

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Yes, it applies to all levels. "Political subdivisions" includes counties/parishes, cities, towns, villages, burroughs, ... even things like school, airport, water and park districts.
The first part clearly does.
But why are there two parts?
This is a perfect example of a loophole where explicit language was possible, but not used.
It should be amended and clarified to explicitly include states and all other government entities in the prohibition noted by the second part.

The fact remains, we all know there are lists at the state and local levels, and to my knowledge no court has ruled on their legality yet.
That's due to one of two reasons.
1. The second part of the clause only pertains to the federal government.
or...
2. No court case has been brought forth to challenge the lists.
 
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Where is the GoFundMe page for it?
Somebody must first be able to claim standing, showing they were unjustly "injured" by the action, and bringing the lawsuit.
That's why FPC constantly puts out calls to groups who may have been adversely affected by bad laws. They can't just bring a case forth without a victim.
I don't know of anyone yet who's stood up as a victim of one of these lists, but if there is one, I'd like to support them.
 
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