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Discussion Starter #1
I purchased an AK on election day last year, with winter in full bloom I am just getting it out to break in.

I was wondering if anyone had a suggestion on the zero range I should use. My understanding is to use a 25 yard zero which should make it dead on at 200 and I am leaning that way but thought it wouldn't hurt to get some feedback.

This AK came with a scope rail mounted on the bolt cover, but I'm not sure how well it will hold zero as it is a removeable part, so I have the option of a scope but the 124gr, 2345fps chart shows a ballistic pattern similar to that of a rock, I'll probably end up with a red dot or holographic sight on it.

AK47 Drop Chart 124gr2345fps.png
 

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The difference between the AK and the AR is conceptual. The AK was designed as a machine gun that could be used as a rifle. The AR was designed as a rifle that could be used as a machine gun. The difference is that the AK doesn't have near the accuracy at distance that the AR can achieve. Personally, I wouldn't use an AK much over 150-200 yards.
 
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Don't rely on the ballistic chart, zero at 25 yds and then double check it. Personally I'd zero at 100yds which will keep you within 6" from 0-200yds, more than enough to keep rounds center of mass to 200yds which is about as I'd want to push it with the 7.62x39. I would expect a shifting zero if you mount the scope using the bolt cover scope mount.

-Infidel
 

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I go with a 100 yard zero then using the adjustable rear site you will be close enough.
AK is a 0-300 maybe 350 meter weapon.
Keep in mind 0-100 meters are faster reflex shots you need to set up some 25,50 and 100 meter human size targets and aim center mass. 3 shots check if your group in with in reason and where they strike. Adjust your site picture accordingly once your group tights up.
Cover mounted sights are a best close, works ok with a red dot reflex sight.
The proper scope mount for an Ak looks like this. This one use the Russian side mount with a Pinnacle top rail.
AKM10.JPG
Another effective approach is to mount a reflex sight on forward gas tube using a converted shield. Reflex sights are at their best when mount farther forward on the weapon.
AKold (3).JPG
 
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I'm pretty sure he meant using a scope in the mount that came on the rifle but I could be wrong.

-Infidel
Oh, I know. I was just having a bit of fun with the AK. I actually have a scope mount for my SKS that I just never got around to putting on. Heck, I'm not even sure I know where it is for sure......

I have way too many prepping dollars tied up in the optics of my main go to widget. It's an easy thing to do, lol.
 

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Btw, what is an AK?
Is that one of them assault weapons that are banned here in ca?
Be careful with that AK, THEY KILL PEOPLE!
Lol, sorry im punchy right now...
 

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First off, . . . not meaning to disparage your choice, . . . but AK's just simply are not accurate, . . . and without some major investments, . . . cannot be made so. It is a close in, urban warfare, house to house, room to room weapon, designed to be accurate enough to shoot the bad guy on the roof top across the street. It's whole purpose for existing came out of the massive body counts inflicted by the Germans on Russia during WW2 when the Russians were armed at best with old bolt actions, . . . against German assault rifles.

Be that as it may, . . . the round itself, . . . not necessarily the rifle, . . . but the round itself has a trajectory that can be predicted to follow this path: at the muzzle, zero, . . . at 25 yards from muzzle end, on target, perfect hits, . . . at 100 yards, approx 3 inches high, . . . at 120 to 130 yards, approx 3.4 inches high, . . . at 200 yards, back on target, perfect hits. This would be the trajectory out of a perfect barrel, in a perfect rifle, under perfect conditions.

An AK has none of those qualities, . . . so in all fairness, . . . you should check YOUR rifle against a 25 yard zero. If it holds well (something inside a 3 inch group of 5 shots) then you can safely project that it will do well out to 200 yds. If your group of 5 is bigger than 3 inches at 100 yards, . . . I would probably set my zero at 100 yds, . . . and realize that I have a flat shooting 100 yd rifle, . . . but should refrain from shooting much beyond that.

Good luck, hope this helps.

May God bless,
Dwight
 

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A bullet doesn't have 2 "zeros". It can't hit target center at 25 and again at 200!
Not two zeros however if you correctly zero a 5.56 M4 at 25 meters using the ZERO target for that range. The bullet will strike dead on at 100 meters and then again at 250.
from 100 to 250 there is a rise and drop.
 

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Look, we are making this way to hard for the OP. All my rifles have a 100meter zero. Go 100 and don't look back! Based off of that I have laminated ballistic cards taped to my but stocks "Minus my brush hunting rifles" from 50 meters to that particular calibers effective range. If you have a rifle that is shooting 3" groups at 100 then you need to re-think using that weapon in any type of environment other than close quarters. Now with that being said if I was 250 out and you started slinging lead me way I'm gonna duck and cover for sure. The big sky little bullet concept only works for so long. I've seen firsthand what an AK round does to humans. Not a pretty sight for sure and with enough rounds slinging in your direction one is bound to find its mark. The AK wasn't designed to be a sniper rifle of any sort. It was designed to shoot in any environment. Mission accomplished if you ask me! Either way get you a accurate rifle as well as an AK and you will be a force to reckon with! Remember to practice, practice then practice some more!
 

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Oswegoscott. That's a correct post. Since the barrel is normally aimed slightly upward, the bullet does, indeed, rise slightly after it leaves the barrel, but it bullet never rises above the axis of the barrel. What you get is a compasiation of you scope in most cases. e.g. if the center point of your scope to the center point of your barrel is 2" and you sight in your rifle at 100 you will have to compansate for that 2" lower point of aim by raising your barrel. Hope this clariefies somethings!
 

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Discussion Starter #15
A bullet doesn't have 2 "zeros". It can't hit target center at 25 and again at 200!
Actually EVERY bullet has 2 zeros because the sight is mounted above the barrel and no matter what your zero range is the bullet will spend most of its time above your line of sight before it gets to the zero range. See figure B in this article:

External Ballistics - Hornady Manufacturing, Inc

Because the bullet follows a parabolic curve the bullet leaves the barrel and goes above the line of sight and then drops into the target. The spot where the line if sight and the bullet intersect initally is the first zero and it varies depending on how high your scope (or iron sight) is mounted above the barrel.

On another note thanks for the feed back on the zero, yes I need to check the pattern before I can figure this, if I have a 3 MOA pattern it will make more sense to zero at 100.
 

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View attachment 1612

WRONG. A bullet doesn't rise. The barrel is raised above the plane to increase range
Not sure where you came up with that chart but it has nothing to do with a rifle. I spent 27 years with m16 and M4's I know how to zero one using any of the rounds supplied. On the 25 meter zero the aim point is about 2 1/2 low for a correct 100 meter zero. The zero target has a second imposed zero on it for that reason.
The second way of doing it they abandoned some years ago The rear sight was adjusted to made up the difference you will see some that still have a Z stamped in them.
On 25 meter range you set it there zeroed then returned it to normal. They got away form it because it cause to much confusion and went back to use a zero target.
Ever here the term Flat shooter? Some rounds like the 308 are often called that because they had a lower rise and fall than the 30.06.
The AK has a heavy bullet with little to push it so it has a flight path of a well thrown rock
This is the correct one you are wrong on this one.
rsballistics_0303a.jpg
 

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I think someone should specify which someone
You actually, but you knew that already. Yes, I was wrong in my post, as I should have included how to sight in a weapon. you are making it sound like a bullet will never have the same point of impact(zero) but if you sight in your weapon properly the arch that the bullet will travel will cross/intersect at the same point of elevation(zero) during it's flight path, be it 25yards and 100/200/250 yards what ever. For the sake of this post you are correct, but you would not make a very good range/shooting instructor using what you posted, but you did get a point across. Good for you.
 

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Back on point, the 7.62X39 has near the same ballitics as the great and old .30-30, killed more deer inside 100 yds than they can count. I would sight it in at 100 yds.jmho
 

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Right--and never does it rise above the line of the barrel--and never will it be dead on target at 100 and again at 250,like you said
I'm sorry, oswegoscott, . . . but you simply do not know what you are talking about, . . . or you don't know how to frame the comment you are making. In either case, you are just simply wrong.

The bullet leaves the barrel traveling in an upward direction from perfectly flat horizontal, . . . and in that upward travel, it goes through the exact dead zero center of the line of sight at some determined distance, . . .

Gravity is pulling on the bullet all the length of it's travel, . . . and finally pulls it down again in the exact dead center of line of sight.

Both are considered as Zero, . . . above the horizontal line is considered "+" and below it is considered "-".

Therefore it goes through two perfect "zeros" each and every time you pull the trigger, . . . unless it impacts before it makes that arc.

The little attached drawing says it a lot better than fifteen paragraphs would.

May God bless,
Dwight
 

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I will flat guarantee if you zero a .223 or 5.56 in an m16 or m4 for dead on a 100 meters it will strike dead on again at 250.
Spent way to many hopurs on the range and real world with them to back off this one.
You can not change that it is a simple fact . The reason you zero it that way is by aiming center mass you will hit the target.
For longer shots you can either dial it in or change you sight picture.
The AK will do the same just not as extreme because the bullet is to heavy the charge will not carry it as far.
 
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