Prepper Forum / Survivalist Forum banner

41 - 60 of 83 Posts

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
6,380 Posts
Hell, I plan on eating more than a loaf of bread. Think about what you eat normally that is made from flour. I'm gonna want to also eat pancakes, biscuits, cake, cookies, etc. That is why my largest store, by far, is wheat berries. But I do like your method of storing flour in quart jars. That means, during a crisis, you have a very healthy inventory of jars for canning later. Doesn't work for me as I'm too lazy to make homemade bread every day. So I have cases of empty jars in storage.
It's a large group, which means everyone can get a slice or two per day, along with whatever else I'll be fixing. Stew, soup, etc. I can do flat bread in a pinch. I have pancake mix and oatmeal put back, too. Rice of course. Barley. Beans,beans and more beans. Pasta, red sauce..Stopped putting back quinoa. It does something awful to my digestive system.

BTW, what are you planting in the fall garden?

Sent from my SM-S337TL using Tapatalk
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
866 Posts
Keep in mind that you need to consider "calories per day" when determining how much food you actually have. Assuming not working too hard the average person will require at least 2000 calories per day. Men closer to 2300, women about 1800 calories per day for moderate work. Working hard outside I burn about 2600 calories a day. A fireman fighting wildfires all day will burn about 3500 calories. My wife working at the office burns about 1400 calories a day.
MOST prepared long term storage food kits barely provide 1200 calories per day, During WW2 1100 calories a day was considered starvation level feeding for prisoners sitting most of the day and a slow death for those who worked. Legacy Foods does provide the minimum required 2000 calories per day, Wise and Mountain House do not.

2000 calories per day. Check your stored food and do the math.
A #10 can of white rice (about 6 1/2 lbs) is 15,000 calories or about 7 days of food.
A #10 can of dehydrated green beans is about 1800 calories or about 1 day of food.

Everybody's budget is different but none of us are professional organic farmers, especially with limited fuel supplies. Since the 1st years crop may not do so well I think having at least 18 months at 2000 calories per day of food on hand would be the goal. That way if your 1st year growing food fails you've got a second growing year to figure out how to farm. So for me the goal is 18 months at 2000+ calories per day. We're not there yet.

While I'd like to I can't afford enough food to feed the few neighbors I have. Plus there are all sorts of problems with trying to feed others. But at the same time I understand that without a few more people living here I can't realistically defend the property that I would hope to grow food on. We have a few family members who probably would join us (yes, I've discussed this with them) and put up a bit for them but probably will never have enough to have 2000 calories per day for 18 months for everybody.
I hear you.
I'd like to stock up for the immediate neighbors (even with just rolled oats, which is cheap considering the nutrition it gives, and the very long
shelf-life, and you can eat it without cooking) - but it's the storage space that's a big problem for me.
I'm eating oats dated 2016 - can't tell the difference between it and new one.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,848 Posts
BTW, what are you planting in the fall garden?
Today I'm planting Slenderette bush beans, where my sweet corn was planted. My wife LOVES those beans & they are really sweet when harvested in the fall when it gets cooler. A bit later I'll be putting in collard & mustard greens as well as broccoli. I'll grow a good bit of collards as they are my favorite and I will need to load the freezers with them.

You know, I find where my fall crops do better than spring crops. The timing just seems better in the fall. When I plant a spring crop, say these exact same items, the timing is backward. They are trying to germinate when the soil is cold (cool), start growing slowly when it is cool but harvest as it has gotten much warmer... and thus more bug/disease issue. In the fall, the seeds germinate quickly due to the warm soil, grow quickly while not cool but harvest when cool... with less bugs/disease. Plus most of those veggies taste better when harvested in cool weather as opposed to warm.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
6,380 Posts
Today I'm planting Slenderette bush beans, where my sweet corn was planted. My wife LOVES those beans & they are really sweet when harvested in the fall when it gets cooler. A bit later I'll be putting in collard & mustard greens as well as broccoli. I'll grow a good bit of collards as they are my favorite and I will need to load the freezers with them.

You know, I find where my fall crops do better than spring crops. The timing just seems better in the fall. When I plant a spring crop, say these exact same items, the timing is backward. They are trying to germinate when the soil is cold (cool), start growing slowly when it is cool but harvest as it has gotten much warmer... and thus more bug/disease issue. In the fall, the seeds germinate quickly due to the warm soil, grow quickly while not cool but harvest when cool... with less bugs/disease. Plus most of those veggies taste better when harvested in cool weather as opposed to warm.
Awesome. I'm with you on the less bugs factor. I bet all your dogs keep the critters out of the garden.

I was unable to plant this spring due to circumstances, but am looking forward to getting some things in the earth tomorrow. Kind of a late start for my zone, but I'm sure I can get some return.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,848 Posts
Awesome. I'm with you on the less bugs factor. I bet all your dogs keep the critters out of the garden.

I was unable to plant this spring due to circumstances, but am looking forward to getting some things in the earth tomorrow. Kind of a late start for my zone, but I'm sure I can get some return.
Sorry to hear that. Hope all is better or more manageable now. And yep, don't have to worry about critters in my garden. Nine dogs keep critters & people away.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,068 Posts
Discussion Starter #46
Keep in mind that you need to consider "calories per day" when determining how much food you actually have. Assuming not working too hard the average person will require at least 2000 calories per day. Men closer to 2300, women about 1800 calories per day for moderate work. Working hard outside I burn about 2600 calories a day. A fireman fighting wildfires all day will burn about 3500 calories. My wife working at the office burns about 1400 calories a day.
MOST prepared long term storage food kits barely provide 1200 calories per day, During WW2 1100 calories a day was considered starvation level feeding for prisoners sitting most of the day and a slow death for those who worked. Legacy Foods does provide the minimum required 2000 calories per day, Wise and Mountain House do not.

2000 calories per day. Check your stored food and do the math.
A #10 can of white rice (about 6 1/2 lbs) is 15,000 calories or about 7 days of food.
A #10 can of dehydrated green beans is about 1800 calories or about 1 day of food.

Everybody's budget is different but none of us are professional organic farmers, especially with limited fuel supplies. Since the 1st years crop may not do so well I think having at least 18 months at 2000 calories per day of food on hand would be the goal. That way if your 1st year growing food fails you've got a second growing year to figure out how to farm. So for me the goal is 18 months at 2000+ calories per day. We're not there yet.

While I'd like to I can't afford enough food to feed the few neighbors I have. Plus there are all sorts of problems with trying to feed others. But at the same time I understand that without a few more people living here I can't realistically defend the property that I would hope to grow food on. We have a few family members who probably would join us (yes, I've discussed this with them) and put up a bit for them but probably will never have enough to have 2000 calories per day for 18 months for everybody.
I try to figure more on serving size rather than try to calculate calories....which is kinda like 6 of one, half dozen of the other, and pretty much equals out.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,323 Posts
I try to figure more on serving size rather than try to calculate calories....which is kinda like 6 of one, half dozen of the other, and pretty much equals out.
I've been dieting for so long that in my head, yes, serving size does equal calories. I can calculate the caloric value of most meals just by looking at the serving sizes.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
824 Posts
I hear you.
I'd like to stock up for the immediate neighbors.
Playing Devils advocate here but worth considering.

You start feeding your neighbors and after a while your food stores get small. You're worried that your immediate family may need the food to get through next winter so you reliantly tell your neighbors "No more" . But after the next 2-3 months your neighbors grow thinner while your family stays healthy looking. Your neighbors kids are starving. How long before a few neighbors steal your remaining food?

example 2: You occasionally give some food to a few very trusted neighbors. You fully trust these neighbors not to shoot you in the back if you are forced to reduce their handouts. But one of these neighbors allows their 2nd cousin by marriage to stay with them after the inner city apartment he lived in was overrun by tribes of looters. Or a few neighbors let slip to their neighbors that you've got a bit of extra food socked away. How long do you thing you'll live? Especially if their kids are starving.

Play the gray man. Lose some weight like your neighbors are doing. Act as if you have no food.
Your neighbors have the same opportunity to put extra food away as you've got.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,848 Posts
Playing Devils advocate here but worth considering.

You start feeding your neighbors and after a while your food stores get small. You're worried that your immediate family may need the food to get through next winter so you reliantly tell your neighbors "No more" . But after the next 2-3 months your neighbors grow thinner while your family stays healthy looking. Your neighbors kids are starving. How long before a few neighbors steal your remaining food?

example 2: You occasionally give some food to a few very trusted neighbors. You fully trust these neighbors not to shoot you in the back if you are forced to reduce their handouts. But one of these neighbors allows their 2nd cousin by marriage to stay with them after the inner city apartment he lived in was overrun by tribes of looters. Or a few neighbors let slip to their neighbors that you've got a bit of extra food socked away. How long do you thing you'll live? Especially if their kids are starving.

Play the gray man. Lose some weight like your neighbors are doing. Act as if you have no food.
Your neighbors have the same opportunity to put extra food away as you've got.
Problem with your scenario is that you are not fully committed to the community. You are simply handing out food as long it is convenient to you. That type of community is guaranteed to fail. IMO, you either are all in or you don't even try. Can't do this half assed. In my case, my community only works if I get at least one of the two cattle farmers on board. At the point they agree, then I'd show them all my stores and start working on a plan to add neighbors. If they wanted to go it alone, then I would too. But I think they would be interested in joint security and in having something to eat besides beef, 3 meals a day. And think they would want to work together to grow more food, especially if told I have seed.

No guarantees in life... especially during a severe crisis. IMO, group survival is better than doing it alone. In a functioning group, all members succeed or all fail.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,068 Posts
Discussion Starter #50
Problem with your scenario is that you are not fully committed to the community. You are simply handing out food as long it is convenient to you. That type of community is guaranteed to fail. IMO, you either are all in or you don't even try. Can't do this half assed. In my case, my community only works if I get at least one of the two cattle farmers on board. At the point they agree, then I'd show them all my stores and start working on a plan to add neighbors. If they wanted to go it alone, then I would too. But I think they would be interested in joint security and in having something to eat besides beef, 3 meals a day. And think they would want to work together to grow more food, especially if told I have seed.

No guarantees in life... especially during a severe crisis. IMO, group survival is better than doing it alone. In a functioning group, all members succeed or all fail.
I don't know if I'd be showing anybody outside of immediate family my stores, no matter how 'trusted' they are or what type of agreement you're in. Even if you've known them for years and are like family, your kids grew up together, went camping or to dinner together every week. Even if they know you prep........there's just some things they don't need to know.

I have such a neighbor, and is one we could rely on in a crisis. They'd have our back and we theirs. Last year, when I redid hubs closet to add storage shelves and rearrange the pantry, she came over unexpectedly and seen alot of my stuff and jokingly said 'if SHTF, we'll be over here'. I told her no, but I'd be more than willing to help her get her own storage going and if she got a coop I'd give her a few chickens, make a garden & I'll give you some seeds, but I'm not going to give away what I've worked my butt off to get. (growing, canning or buying).......and thankfully that was last year, before Covid. That anyone that knows I've got supplies, I can use the excuse of Covid and having to live off my stores, so nobody would know just how much I do have. Sure most people I know, know I have supplies......but nobody knows just how much.

Yes, I'll help those that I can, but I want to help them help themselves......in the same thought as 'give a man a fish and he eats for a day, teach him how to fish and he eats for a lifetime' I want to teach them how to do it themselves
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,848 Posts
Yes, I'll help those that I can, but I want to help them help themselves......in the same thought as 'give a man a fish and he eats for a day, teach him how to fish and he eats for a lifetime' I want to teach them how to do it themselves
Yes, but in the real world, other folks don't prep. I can't plan my survival based upon a hope. I will have to deal with the reality at hand and that being, my neighbors will not have prepared. None of my neighbors know I prep and will only be told if we are in a major crisis. Even then, I wouldn't show anything until I had them on board, with their cattle herds. Understand the amount of food available with a herd of cattle. So with these farmers, it would be a partnership... not me taking care of them.

I just don't think most preppers give serious thought to how they will survive that first year. IMO, saying you will shoot everyone you see is not a plan. You can't spend a year underground. You will have to get out & around... planting, cutting wood, hunting, foraging, etc. Many here have planned out how many calories they will need each day, but have not gone into similar detail on how you will stay safe. I personally spend more time considering that than how long my food will last. They are both critical, but without a real security plan, you are doomed just like a non prepper... no matter how many calories you have in storage.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
824 Posts
Problem with your scenario is that you are not fully committed to the community. .
You got it! I'm fully committed to my family and refuse to endanger them by attracting excess attention that may attract some hostile attention.
Yes, of the 6 families within a mile of me I know that at least two of them are at least marginal preppers with battle rifles and at least some food put up and several have planned for alternative water sources. Over the years we've lightly discussed topics that may hint at prepping with all of them. All 6 families have at least a small garden (800 sf or larger) and most have some form of livestock. In an extremally limited way I may be willing to trade with them but I will not open my pantry to them.
Let's say neighbor X has 3 months of food put up and I say enough in general conversation to make him think that I have 12 months worth of food put up. Neighbor X has 3 teenage children and a small garden but after 4-6 months is running out of food. Do I need to worry about "a shot in the night"?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
824 Posts
Yes, but in the real world, other folks don't prep.
I just don't think most preppers give serious thought to how they will survive that first year. IMO, saying you will shoot everyone you see is not a plan. You can't spend a year underground. You will have to get out & around... planting, cutting wood, hunting, foraging, etc. Many here have planned out how many calories they will need each day, but have not gone into similar detail on how you will stay safe. .
Trust me when I say I've put more thought into security than I have in food and water.
1. Avoid attracting attention. Minimal smoke, cooking odors, lights ,noise, and movement.
2. Early detection of anything moving within 300 yds of the house.
3. Avoid confrontations whenever possible and if confrontation is unavoidable minimize the confrontation. Better to keep the family safe and reclaim what is yours another day.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
866 Posts
Playing Devils advocate here but worth considering.

You start feeding your neighbors and after a while your food stores get small. You're worried that your immediate family may need the food to get through next winter so you reliantly tell your neighbors "No more" . But after the next 2-3 months your neighbors grow thinner while your family stays healthy looking. Your neighbors kids are starving. How long before a few neighbors steal your remaining food?

example 2: You occasionally give some food to a few very trusted neighbors. You fully trust these neighbors not to shoot you in the back if you are forced to reduce their handouts. But one of these neighbors allows their 2nd cousin by marriage to stay with them after the inner city apartment he lived in was overrun by tribes of looters. Or a few neighbors let slip to their neighbors that you've got a bit of extra food socked away. How long do you thing you'll live? Especially if their kids are starving.

Play the gray man. Lose some weight like your neighbors are doing. Act as if you have no food.
Your neighbors have the same opportunity to put extra food away as you've got.
We're old folks. Only two of us.
Whatever is left of life for us isn't worth living if it ever comes to that........I don't know if we can ignore
starving neighbors (especially those who have been good to us) ..............maybe, we'll share until everything is gone.......

.........................but then again, the natural instinct to want to survive may still kick in.

I suppose I'll never know how my hubby and I will react to the situation until we actually experience it.

To be inconspicuous as much as possible - to not attract any attention - is sound advice.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,848 Posts
Let's say neighbor X has 3 months of food put up and I say enough in general conversation to make him think that I have 12 months worth of food put up. Neighbor X has 3 teenage children and a small garden but after 4-6 months is running out of food. Do I need to worry about "a shot in the night"?
Of course you do. Every prepper needs to concern themselves over folks running out of food... especially neighbors. Hungry people with starving kids will do anything to survive. I harp on neighbors as IMO, they would be the primary threat. You can't threaten or shoot neighbors for being about. They will be able to ascertain your level of preparedness by observing you daily. It would be similar to allowing spies into your camp.

I just say, put yourself into your neighbor's shoes. They are well armed, with battle rifles and good chance they are hunters. At the point they run out of food, and they notice you haven't... what happens? Do they just quietly die off or become a threat? How would you know at any given moment they wouldn't take you our, just like hunting deer? What can you do to protect you & yours?

So my question is, have you actually endangered your family more by not forming a community with those neighbors? Is allowing starving folks right next to you sound strategy? IMO, all preppers need to consider this and have a plan of action. What is your plan when the neighbors run out of food? Obviously, if you are in a subdivision with dozens of neighbors, then building a community would be almost impossible. So do you leave? If so, where? If you stay, how do you survive?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,848 Posts
Trust me when I say I've put more thought into security than I have in food and water.
1. Avoid attracting attention. Minimal smoke, cooking odors, lights ,noise, and movement.
2. Early detection of anything moving within 300 yds of the house.
3. Avoid confrontations whenever possible and if confrontation is unavoidable minimize the confrontation. Better to keep the family safe and reclaim what is yours another day.
I can tell you have given it thought and everything sounds real good. However, surely you will have to get out of the house & move about. Will you be working in the garden? Chopping & gathering wood? Going to an outhouse? Getting water? Hunting? Caring for animals? Security patrols to watch the 300 yd perimeter?

How can you provide early detection of anything moving around your house? Will you have enough folks to provide multiple people to be on guard 24 hours a day, seven days a week? You have comm gear for all? Do you have any neighbors withing that 300 yds? Any woods in that zone?

And I agree. Avoiding confrontation works best if you aren't Rambo. I'm sure not.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
824 Posts
Of course you do. Every prepper needs to concern themselves over folks running out of food... especially neighbors. Hungry people with starving kids will do anything to survive. I harp on neighbors as IMO, they would be the primary threat. You can't threaten or shoot neighbors for being about. They will be able to ascertain your level of preparedness by observing you daily. It would be similar to allowing spies into your camp.
I am fortunate in that no neighbors can see my home or even most of my property from their property.
I fully intend to work with my neighbors, we live in a food rich location so trading should work well, but I don't plan to hand out weekly food baskets.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
824 Posts
I can tell you have given it thought and everything sounds real good. However, surely you will have to get out of the house & move about. Will you be working in the garden? Chopping & gathering wood? Going to an outhouse? Getting water? Hunting? Caring for animals? Security patrols to watch the 300 yd perimeter?

How can you provide early detection of anything moving around your house? Will you have enough folks to provide multiple people to be on guard 24 hours a day, seven days a week? You have comm gear for all? Do you have any neighbors withing that 300 yds? Any woods in that zone?
.
As I said in an earlier post we will make noise the 1st few weeks topping off wood ect but after that we intend to be quiet. I can walk 200+ yards in any direction at any time of day and not worry about being seen unless a car drives by when I'm close to the road; it's not a very busy road. So assuming we don't make much noise we can easily work the garden locations, most of which are out of sight from the road.
Water and septic should work fine so we won't be forced to go outside. Electricity with backup onsite and a large propane tank for the stove and hot water heater so no wood cooking smoke although wood would be needed for heat when it gets really cold. Solar usually provides much of my heat.
Yes, we expect to have enough people to maintain a watch if we feel it's needed but there are also electronic sensors that will alert if something passes by. Add thermal and NV and we can keep watch if we feel it's needed.

All of this didn't happen overnight, I started low grade prepping and adding to my knowledge base 20+ years ago. Later I was fortunate enough to find this location which combined with my hobby of playing with different ways to make electricity and other hobbies has slowly helped me to make a fairly good location to get by if ever needed.

I'm not a "Rambo" type prepper. But many of my interests and hobbies support a prepping lifestyle and we prefer to live in a secluded location.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,848 Posts
What type and brand of oats do you store? And how do you store them?
I purchased my supply of rolled oat from Walmart a few years ago. They had really good pricing & free freight. The brand was Emergency Essentials and they came in a superpail, with mylar bag & oxygen absorber. They came ready for storage. I think almost all their product is now out of stock. You can make up your own superpails, as I have done with almost all my rice, beans & pasta. I note you can get oats here: https://www.webstaurantstore.com/50...MIktei7cuF6wIVEb7ACh1v8w5GEAQYASABEgLk7_D_BwE
 
41 - 60 of 83 Posts
Top