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Discussion Starter #441
Frankly, you are wrong there. Hope and lot's of prayer have done wonders for me.
I'm glad it did. But, it certainly did nothing to change what just happened.

Don't misunderstand me here, I'm not suggesting that we should give up all hope and stop praying. I'm just saying it didn't do chit this go around.
 

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I'm glad it did. But, it certainly did nothing to change what just happened.

Don't misunderstand me here, I'm not suggesting that we should give up all hope and stop praying. I'm just saying it didn't do chit this go around.
God reserves the right to alter the decisions of leaders but He doesn't stop us from making our own decisions. Free will and all that.

Still, He really shines when it seems there is no hope.
 

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God reserves the right to alter the decisions of leaders but He doesn't stop us from making our own decisions. Free will and all that.

Still, He really shines when it seems there is no hope.
Permission to respond? LOL
 
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I understand all that. My point is....when all hope was lost for the 6 million+, there was no shining that I saw.

In my mind, it's a little disingenuous to witness million upon millions suffer over the centuries and then claim 2000 years later...."see...I told ya he'd come through".
 

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And for the record....

I believe in a higher power.

I just don't believe there is a force keeping track of good and evil on a daily personal level.
 
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And for the record....

I believe in a higher power.

I just don't believe there is a force keeping track of good and evil on a daily personal level.
Interesting. So, a higher power with no plan or purpose? OK.

Stick around; my God has a plan. Meanwhile, our free will is going to continue to make a mess of things.
 

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I understand all that. My point is....when all hope was lost for the 6 million+, there was no shining that I saw.

In my mind, it's a little disingenuous to witness million upon millions suffer over the centuries and then claim 2000 years later...."see...I told ya he'd come through".
In this world you will have trouble, but be of good cheer, for I have overcome the world.-John 16:33

He didn't say we might have trouble, but will have trouble. Our Lord never promised us happiness in this life, only in the next.
 

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In this world you will have trouble, but be of good cheer, for I have overcome the world.-John 16:33

He didn't say we might have trouble, but will have trouble. Our Lord never promised us happiness in this life, only in the next.
This is one of the areas where I have some problems.

The Gospels weren't written by Mathew, Mark, Luke and John. They were written 200-300 years after these men were alive.

Again, in my mind, that is akin to relying on a message from Martin Luther King, Jr., that had only been passed down verbally and through generational story-telling, which absolutely was the way things were done in days gone by...by lots of people and civilizations. I wonder how his "I've been to the mountaintop" speech would have sounded 200 years later if the original was never recorded in any form and only relying on it being passed down? See my point? My guess is it would not have resembled what he actually said...one bit.

I'm getting myself in trouble here. I can tell.
 

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This is one of the areas where I have some problems.

The Gospels weren't written by Mathew, Mark, Luke and John. They were written 200-300 years after these men were alive.

Again, in my mind, that is akin to relying on a message from Martin Luther King, Jr., that had only been passed down verbally and through generational story-telling, which absolutely was the way things were done in days gone by...by lots of people and civilizations. I wonder how his "I've been to the mountaintop" speech would have sounded 200 years later if the original was never recorded in any form and only relying on it being passed down? See my point? My guess is it would not have resembled what he actually said...one bit.

I'm getting myself in trouble here. I can tell.
Hmm, I'm thinking you might have bad info...

A quick search on when Luke was written.

Luke, date of, authorship date.
 

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This is one of the areas where I have some problems.

The Gospels weren't written by Mathew, Mark, Luke and John. They were written 200-300 years after these men were alive.

Again, in my mind, that is akin to relying on a message from Martin Luther King, Jr., that had only been passed down verbally and through generational story-telling, which absolutely was the way things were done in days gone by...by lots of people and civilizations. I wonder how his "I've been to the mountaintop" speech would have sounded 200 years later if the original was never recorded in any form and only relying on it being passed down? See my point? My guess is it would not have resembled what he actually said...one bit.

I'm getting myself in trouble here. I can tell.
my problem isn't with what was written, who wrote it, or whom inspired it........ it is with whom approved it..
 

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@Robie, no you're not getting yourself in trouble. :tango_face_smile:

In addition to what Denton said, and just for starters.... you have to bare in mind the way Christianity spread. Against all odds, from Jerusalem the very place where it should have been squelched. It wasn't. All the Apostles, save John were martyred for what they believed. People don't die for lies. They weren't the only ones willing to die for the faith. Christians were martyred for the first 300 years after Christ, until Constantine.

You also have to consider the authenticity of the bible. Check out the Dead Sea Scrolls and to what extent their accuracy lines up with what we have today. Check out the prophecies of the Messiah in the OT. Check out the lives of the saints.

More than anything--and it's no "proof" to you, but I gave my life to Christ lock stock and barrel 35 years ago and nothing has been the same since. That's all the preaching I'll do for today.
 

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I’m just a simple man.
I believe the Bible is the inerrant word of God.
Everyone is free to believe otherwise if they wish.
 

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I'm glad it did. But, it certainly did nothing to change what just happened.

Don't misunderstand me here, I'm not suggesting that we should give up all hope and stop praying. I'm just saying it didn't do chit this go around.
I gave up praying as if I'm presenting God with a birthday wish list.
Instead I pray that His will be done.
 

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my problem isn't with what was written, who wrote it, or whom inspired it........ it is with whom approved it..
Wasn't what is read today pretty much organized and approved by Catholics in charge of things?
 
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