the beauty of a 1911

432 Views 27 Replies 6 Participants Last post by rice paddy daddy, 6 d ago

Wedrownik

Discussion Starter · 9 d ago

So we had that thread: 1911 vs glock..... and I will admit that each gun has it's pluses and minuses BUT compare all you want - I just shot my Springfield TRP in preparation for a transition course for my duty gun (going away from a tupperware gun to a steel single action

). Anyways - where I'm going with it is that while I'm pretty damn good with any handgun that I pickup, there is this elegance to shooting a 1911. Also the groupings that I shoot shrunk about 20 - 25% - and consider that I haven't shot a 1911 through a course of fire for about a year or two. It was just like riding a bicycle

Yes - I am limited to 8 rounds... but those are hard hitting 45's

To be honest I have a hard time seeing myself in a running battle where I have to shoot more then 8 rounds at a time before assessing the situation

Yes... I know... someone might say: a horde o zombies.... well, if I have to deal with zombies and all I have is a handgun and they are close enough for me to need more then 8 rounds... I'm screwed.

In any case, without putting down any other type of a firearm I would like for all who have not shot a 1911 to consider shooting it for a while. Take a class... even if you're a good shot, consider taking it for a spin through a full course. The angle of the grip, the weight distribution, the trigger.... well - the trigger..... One could write pages about it. Suffice it to say that the straight pull back trigger is amazing. The straight movement, the clean break.

You can have a 1911 with a long grip and short grip.... with a 3" barrel, 4" (4", 4.25", 4.5") and a 5" barrel. Easy to conceal, easy to carry for duty, easy to carry off duty....what's not to like? Also, it's probably easiest handgun (outside of a wheel gun ) to maintain

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Kauboy

· #2 · 9 d ago

I don't think anyone claimed the 1911 was a bad gun.
There are just better options now.

When somebody figures out the straight pull trigger and striker fired double stack combo without the tight tolerances and flippy switches, I'll be all over it.

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Wedrownik

Discussion Starter · #3 · 9 d ago

So there is only one Flippy switch

. Btw they do make double stacks

www.pewpewtactical.com

6 Best Double-Stack 1911s of 2023 [All Budgets]

Ever wished 1911s came with more rounds? Well, we have some recommendations for you with a list of double stack 1911s that will pump up your round count.

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Kauboy

· #4 · 9 d ago

Wedrownik said:
So there is only one Flippy switch . Btw they do make double stacks

6 Best Double-Stack 1911s of 2023 [All Budgets]

Ever wished 1911s came with more rounds? Well, we have some recommendations for you with a list of double stack 1911s that will pump up your round count.

www.pewpewtactical.com

Grippy switches are flippy switches too.

For a gun I will stake my life on, I want minimal points of failure, hence minimal moving parts. If revolvers held more rounds, I'd likely prefer them.
I've heard the 2011s are quite nice, but as long as the design requires hammer cocked and switches to prevent bangs, it won't be my defensive choice.
The only one I ever shot was very nice. Just not what I want in a carry gun.

Reactions: 1

paraquack

· #5 · 9 d ago

IMHO, choice of a firearm is lot like choosing a wife. It must be someone you trust, have a lot of faith to be there when you really her.

Wedrownik

Discussion Starter · #6 · 9 d ago

paraquack said:
IMHO, choice of a firearm is lot like choosing a wife. It must be someone you trust, have a lot of faith to be there when you really her.

I agree wholeheartedly. My point is (was?) that 1911's get quickly dismissed

All in all as you said - it's a personal choice and a lot of folks who buy guns do so based on opinions rather then the experience as while you can test drive a car, you can't do that with a firearm unless you know someone that has one that you could try

rice paddy daddy

· #7 · 9 d ago

I don't own a Glock and never will.
Actually, the only plastic pistols I own are two Ruger LCP2's - one in .380 and one in 22LR.

I do own four 1911's, and a whole bunch of revolvers.
my latest carry gun is a Walther PPK in .380.

Where we live, violent crime is almost non existent.
I haven't had to pull a trigger in anger in 53 years. And the odds that anyone else on this board will have to fire in self defense are pretty silm as well.
Unless you are involved with drugs, or another man's wife, or hang out in seedy bars and strip joints.

Kauboy

· #8 · 9 d ago

rice paddy daddy said:
I don't own a Glock and never will.

Why?
Break it down to core reasons.
I always try to understand people who take stands like "never" and really try to know why they feel that way. Sure, there are lots of topics upon which "never" doing them is easily reasoned out.
But why would you never own one model of gun?

I wouldn't carry a 1911 for defensive use if I had better options. Barring those other options, I would carry one.
I'd also happily own one. They're good guns for their own reasons.

Wedrownik

Discussion Starter · #9 · 9 d ago

I will chime in on the glock. Don't like the ergonomics. Even the newer ones don't fit my hand right. Additionally I have an issue with a company that does not do recalls for the public. The department ones that Glock sells get 'improvement upgrades ' from time to time. This lead me to believe that those are quiet recalls....

Chipper

· #10 · 9 d ago

I've owned several over the years. Tried to like them, even carried one for a while on and off. I look at the weight and round count that I'm carrying for the size. 2 mags and a reload to get to 16 rounds I have in the Glock. However a reload and one extra mag in the Glock or M&P is 31 rounds. 1911 is 3 mags and 3 reloads, at 8 rounds, nope not going to waste that much time.

32 round stick mags. That also work in my CMMG, Glocks and TNW.

Which is why I keep going back to double stack plastic guns. Oh yeah, the safety thingy.

Lastly I like 10mm. 10mm and a 1911 isn't a good combo. Yes I tried it twice.

Wedrownik

Discussion Starter · #11 · 9 d ago

I've shot the Kimber 10mm..... So tempted to own one.... Just don't want another caliber in my safe.

Which 10mm 1911 did you try?

rice paddy daddy

· #12 · 8 d ago

I don't own an AR and never will, either.
I'm very familiar with the platform, my constant companion for a year was a Colt M16A1.
I prefer my M1 Garand, even over my Springfield M1A.

rice paddy daddy

· #13 · 8 d ago

Chipper said:
I've owned several over the years. Tried to like them, even carried one for a while on and off. I look at the weight and round count that I'm carrying for the size. 2 mags and a reload to get to 16 rounds I have in the Glock. However a reload and one extra mag in the Glock or M&P is 31 rounds. 1911 is 3 mags and 3 reloads, at 8 rounds, nope not going to waste that much time.

I don't live in Zimbabwe, so that capability is unneeded by me.

Kauboy

· #14 · 7 d ago

rice paddy daddy said:
I don't own an AR and never will, either.
I'm very familiar with the platform, my constant companion for a year was a Colt M16A1.
I prefer my M1 Garand, even over my Springfield M1A.

I must ask again...
Why?

You own at least one AK, and from what you've said in the past, would pick it over the AR every time.
The AK is, without question, not as accurate as the AR. But it is dead solid reliable. It beats the AR in dependability, hands down. It runs in all conditions, and eats garbage ammo like candy.

So, why would the exact same situation in a handgun yield the exact opposite opinion?
The 1911 is a precision handgun, preferred by almost all competitive shooters, but its real-wold reliability cannot compare to the Glock. A Glock is dead nuts reliable, runs wet or dry, hot or cold, clean or dirty, and eats any ammo you can feed it.

Does it come down to plastic? Plastic on an AR, plastic on a Glock... Is that why?
I can't make it make sense why it's an absolute "never" gun, even if it's not one you'd prefer.
I'm likely blind to your reason because I do prefer them based solely on reliability. So I'm legitimately curious.

BTW, the M16A1 was complete trash by comparison to today's ARs. If that's the only experience I ever had with one, I'd probably dislike them too.

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rice paddy daddy

· #15 · 7 d ago

Kauboy said:
So, why would the exact same situation in a handgun yield the exact opposite opinion?
The 1911 is a precision handgun, preferred by almost all competitive shooters, but its real-wold reliability cannot compare to the Glock. A Glock is dead nuts reliable, runs wet or dry, hot or cold, clean or dirty, and eats any ammo you can feed it.

Do not confuse a Government Model Colt with a custom $2,000 or more 1911. I've never heard them described as "a precision handgun".
Government Models have served in some of the most inhospitable environments on earth. From the Meuse Argonne in WWI to North Africa to Attu to Omaha Beach to the Chosin Reservoir to Vietnam. Without fail.
Col Jeff Cooper called the 1911 the Yankee Fist.
The Glock will never earn such honors, since it did not win the competition to become the US military service pistol.

As far as 5.56 NATO I've got that covered with a Mini 14 Ranch Rifle for farm duty.
If I was going to play "You Bet Your Life" I'd much rather have my M1 Garand in my hands.

Kauboy

· #16 · 6 d ago

rice paddy daddy said:
Do not confuse a Government Model Colt with a custom $2,000 or more 1911. I've never heard them described as "a precision handgun".
Government Models have served in some of the most inhospitable environments on earth. From the Meuse Argonne in WWI to North Africa to Attu to Omaha Beach to the Chosin Reservoir to Vietnam. Without fail.
Col Jeff Cooper called the 1911 the Yankee Fist.
The Glock will never earn such honors, since it did not win the competition to become the US military service pistol.

As far as 5.56 NATO I've got that covered with a Mini 14 Ranch Rifle for farm duty.
If I was going to play "You Bet Your Life" I'd much rather have my M1 Garand in my hands.

I'm sure I'm being annoying at this point, and I do apologize for that, but you've still not provided an answer for why it's a "never" gun.

And you're quite right, the mass produced version the government went with is not what John Browning was known for. Good 1911s are hand fitted and precision faced. What the government went with (the "good enough" 1911) was a close approximation and was eventually replaced because it could no longer serve the purpose better than other options. Ask any armorer, and they'll tell you all the fails that gun suffered in its many years of service. There's no such thing as a "never fails" gun. It was superior for a long time. Technology evolved and that time passed. It's still good, just not superior anymore.

Honors and appeals to authority don't make something good. It's good if it's good. If it was still the best, it would still be the primary issue sidearm.

But back to the question, why "never" a Glock or a modern AR? Does that mean you would actively refuse them if they were your only available options?
Maybe I'm taking "never" a bit too literal.

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foodzwhat

· #17 · 6 d ago

Wedrownik said:
So we had that thread: 1911 vs glock..... and I will admit that each gun has it's pluses and minuses BUT compare all you want - I just shot my Springfield TRP in preparation for a transition course for my duty gun (going away from a tupperware gun to a steel single action ). Anyways - where I'm going with it is that while I'm pretty damn good with any handgun that I pickup, there is this elegance to shooting a 1911. Also the groupings that I shoot shrunk about 20 - 25% - and consider that I haven't shot a 1911 through a course of fire for about a year or two. It was just like riding a bicycle

Yes - I am limited to 8 rounds... but those are hard hitting 45's To be honest I have a hard time seeing myself in a running battle where I have to shoot more then 8 rounds at a time before assessing the situation Yes... I know... someone might say: a horde o zombies.... well, if I have to deal with zombies and all I have is a handgun and they are close enough for me to need more then 8 rounds... I'm screwed.

In any case, without putting down any other type of a firearm I would like for all who have not shot a 1911 to consider shooting it for a while. Take a class... even if you're a good shot, consider taking it for a spin through a full course. The angle of the grip, the weight distribution, the trigger.... well - the trigger..... One could write pages about it. Suffice it to say that the straight pull back trigger is amazing. The straight movement, the clean break.

You can have a 1911 with a long grip and short grip.... with a 3" barrel, 4" (4", 4.25", 4.5") and a 5" barrel. Easy to conceal, easy to carry for duty, easy to carry off duty....what's not to like? Also, it's probably easiest handgun (outside of a wheel gun ) to maintain

Many years ago, when I got back into shooting, The first handgun that I got was a 1911. A friend gave me a ration for not getting a Glock. He said that I only had seven rounds in the mag and he had 15. My response was that if he needed 15 rounds to get the job done, maybe he needed more range time. Still love my 1911. There's a story behind it and the second gun that I purchased.

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Kauboy

· #18 · 6 d ago

foodzwhat said:
My response was that if he needed 15 rounds to get the job done, maybe he needed more range time.

That's theatrical posturing and one-upsmanship...

"If someone can't finish the job with one bodkin tipped war arrow, they need more range time."

See how that's a bad argument?

rice paddy daddy

· #19 · 6 d ago

Frankly, if someone gave me an AR I’d sell it and use the money to buy something I really wanted.
Like a British Enfield Number 4 Mk I. Or a Japanese Arisaka.

Same would go for a Glock. I’d put the money towards a classic S&W Model 19 .357 magnum.

I’ve got all the “ fighting guns” I want. And neither an AR or a Glock is any better than what I already have.

Plastic and alloy weapons just don’t float my boat. I prefer wood and steel. I’m of a different era than you. AR’s are so popular because they have been a US military issue weapon for so long.

And John Moses Browning designed the Model 1911 from the beginning to be a government firearm made to be mass produced.

Kauboy

· #20 · 6 d ago

So it does just come down to plastic?
Steel is an alloy. ARs and Glocks both use steel. ARs use aluminum for unstressed parts.
Composites hold up better than any wood ever will. This is due to their horrendous chemical composition and being "engineered" for the purpose. Completely fair to still personally prefer wood. Just comparing.

JMB travelled to Hartford, CT and personally supervised the production of every single part, all made by Colt employee Fred Moore, that went into the test guns that were sent to the Army for the trials to ensure they were the best possible components they could create. They were not at all the product of mass production. Like I said, JMB was known for hand-fitted firearms. That's the gun that won the trial. There's not a doubt in my mind that one off the assembly line couldn't hold a candle to those test versions. They were probably his best work ever.

I'm not here to convince you to buy anything. I'm just stuck on the apparent deep disdain for Glocks.
Completely reasonable to not like them. I hated them for years. Still think they're ugly. But discounting them entirely when they have a world-wide proven track record seems too quick to judge so harshly.

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