[DerBiermeister]

I have thought out various loads for HD (inside my house) and have finally decided on this mix:

My first two shells in my 590 are #4 buckshot (30 pellets). If that doesn't drop the perp, then my next 7 rounds are 00 buck. Our lots are big with neighbor's homes a good distance away. Also, from where I would be firing, any shot would have to go through at least 3 walls to get to the outside of the house. So the worry about neighbors is nil. Walls can be patched -- my goal is to stop the perp, preferably to stop him dead.

Critique?

 

[7515]

I use a similar mix;
first round is #4 buck 3inch magnum - 41 pellets
Next two rounds #0 buck 2 3/4 - 12 pellets
last two are 1 oz slugs

 

[GTGallop]

ok, don't mean to sound like I'm trolling, my question is 100% sincere....Why is a shotgun a good close range weapon?

I've used a full choke shotgun with a number 7 target load on 45 gallon drums. At 25 feet, they punch a 2 inch hole into the drum. If you start shooting something like that from the hip, you are going to miss everything, and eventually someone is going to shoot you dead.

I agree that a defender style shotgun with an open choke would have a much wider pattern at 25 feet, but isn't this important to add to a generalized claim that promotes the shotgun for close range?

In my opinion, the typical remington 870 pump is not a good close quarters weapon, and a poor close range weapon unless you chop the barrel down which makes the mere possession of the shotgun ( in Canada) an indictable offense.

Additionally, if I have to hold a firearm to my shoulder OR if I have the time and room to hold a firearm to my shoulder, I really appreciate the advantage of a large clip and many rounds. Large clip and many rounds aren't that practical with a shotgun that will push or kick like an SOB every time you pull the trigger.

When the world went from lead shot to steel shot, I helped my dad fire off about 300 rounds of magnum loaded duck and geese loads( into clay pigeons). That kind of shooting will leave a bruise after the first half hour. It is not for the timid. the more I shot the more I pulled the shotgun into me, and I was the only one that didn't walk away with bruises that day. My point is you have to be kidding me if you think 00 shot or slugs are a serious load, and some of the target shots won't have penetration. I'd rather have a .22lr or a .223 with high capacity magazines.

Now some of you guys have a ton of experience on this matter, and I don't have any.....so I rest my case, and brace myself for a bruising

Excellent questions and points! Personal defense and home defense is a very personal matter. You should always use what you are comfortable with and train with it.

For me, I am very proficient with a Shotgun. I love it and it feels more like an extension of me than any other weapon. Having said that, you are correct that in a home, a 28" barrel with a full length LOP / Stock may not make sense. Fortunately, my 870 is a little shorter at 26". I think 20" would be perfect. And there are really only two pinch points in my house where it becomes a liability to swing and aim so for me it all works out.

Stateside we have the option of modifying our barrels or purchasing a shorter one or just getting a defensive shotgun all together. Defensive shotguns run the gamut of 18.5" barrels to 22" barrels with most in the 18.5 to 20" range. Someone started a myth that a shorter barrel makes the shot spread faster - it doesn't. It just makes it easier to manipulate getting in and out of trucks and in hallways and other tight areas like bathrooms and stuff.

Also - if you are in a house with other people, like kids, the shotgun is a good choice if - AND ONLY IF - you use small bird shot. Small bird shot (7, 7.5. 8. 9) loses lethality fast after it hits things like furniture and walls. It is less likely to penetrate walls than bullets. I won't say that it DOESN'T penetrate walls. It can and does, but dumps a lot of energy in the process. Many people buy shotguns for home defense because of this and then they load it up with 00 Buck - which goes through walls and furniture like a hot knife through butter. Basically when you pull the trigger on a 308 rifle, you get one 30 caliber projectile screaming through your house. When you shoot 00 Buck 3" high brass, you get 15 30 caliber projectiles screaming through your house. That makes the shotgun 15 times more lethal than a 308 at house distances and if it goes into your kids bedroom, it makes them 15 times more at risk.

So like anything else - there are trade offs.

I still use the shotgun as a fall back option and keep my EDC pistol near the bed at night.

 

[thepeartree]

http://www.brownells.com/magazines/...arts/high-capacity-shotgun-kit-prod25124.aspx

Ok, so it's NOT plain jane. Point proven.

 

[Notsoyoung]

IMO there is no right answer, it depends on the individual, where and how you are planning on using it, and what the terrain and foliage of your location is like. To start with, I for one am not planning on having just one firearm. I have shotguns, pistols, and rifles. I have .22 pistols and center fire pistols of different barrel lengths and power. I have .22 rifles, some centerfire semiautomatic rifles, and centerfire bolt action rifles for longer range shots. It seems a little silly to me to say "don't get a shotgun because it's not good past 100yds" when you live in an area where you very seldom if ever would be able to see anything that's more then 50 yds away, just as I think it is just as silly to "you shouldn't get in a firefight if the people you are shooting at will be more then 100 yds away" if you live where you can see the bad guys coming from 1 mile away, you know that they are coming for you, and you have a rifle that you can start shooting at them 800 yds out. Although I hope never to get in a situation where I am forced to shoot people, if I did I could would prefer to see a couple of group of guys who I know have been raiding my neighbors coming towards my house, about 4 or 5 hundred yours down the lane, and see that they are all armed with shotguns. I would wait until they had come to within 200 hundred yds from me and then start firing. The reason I would wait is I would have time to hit any of them who might be running away.

It all depends on where you live, what the situation is like. Also a shotgun does have some good advantages at night.

 

[DerBiermeister]

IMO there is no right answer, it depends on the individual, where and how you are planning on using it, and what the terrain and foliage of your location is like. To start with, I for one am not planning on having just one firearm. I have shotguns, pistols, and rifles. I have .22 pistols and center fire pistols of different barrel lengths and power. I have .22 rifles, some centerfire semiautomatic rifles, and centerfire bolt action rifles for longer range shots. It seems a little silly to me to say "don't get a shotgun because it's not good past 100yds" when you live in an area where you very seldom if ever would be able to see anything that's more then 50 yds away, just as I think it is just as silly to "you shouldn't get in a firefight if the people you are shooting at will be more then 100 yds away" if you live where you can see the bad guys coming from 1 mile away, you know that they are coming for you, and you have a rifle that you can start shooting at them 800 yds out. Although I hope never to get in a situation where I am forced to shoot people, if I did I could would prefer to see a couple of group of guys who I know have been raiding my neighbors coming towards my house, about 4 or 5 hundred yours down the lane, and see that they are all armed with shotguns. I would wait until they had come to within 200 hundred yds from me and then start firing. The reason I would wait is I would have time to hit any of them who might be running away.

It all depends on where you live, what the situation is like. Also a shotgun does have some good advantages at night.

Right. I am set up for various situations too -- long and short range and of course inside the house. I think I am most vulnerable deep at night while asleep. That is what the shotty is for -- inside the house at ranges up to about 20 feet. Luckily though - I have a couple of great watch dogs, who stay in the bedroom but will start barking their fool heads off at the sound of church mouse.

 

[rice paddy daddy]

I like shotguns, I have different guns for different purposes.
My short range home defense weapon is an Ithaca Police Special 12 ga, rifle sighted, cylinder bore. This is kept with the magazine full of OO buck.
We have a small farm in a rural area and instead of home defense, which I have never had to do, so I also have shotguns set up for barnyard defense, which I have had to do on multiple occasions. Small to medium size animals after our chickens is much, much more likely to happen than someone breaking down my door. Turkey loads of #5 birdshot and small buckshot (#3 or #4) rounds loaded into a SXS double barrel is my go-to gun.

 

[CrossbowJoe]

I have two Rems. An 870 and the 1100 semi-auto(with x-tended mag tube). I prefer the 1100 since you can get off more shots more quickly. My next shotgun buy will be a Saiga 12.

 

[Makwa]

I think it is pretty hard to beat a Mossberg or Remington pump for home defence when it comes to shotguns. I currently have an 870 tactical for things that go bang in the night and a Browning Citori O/U for "sporting" purposes. In house I would use 7 1/2 shot as distances are short and the shot pattern is going to remain fairly tight, plus hit like sledge hammer. Back up the light shot with 00 buck or SSG.

 

[Hawaii Volcano Squad]

If your shotgun can handle 3 1/2 Magnum loads get some Vital shock magnum loads which would be a clear advantage over a rifle at close range.
18 [eighteen] 00 buckshot pellets @ 1,150 fps with each trigger pull. That's like 18 9mm rounds at once. Pretty much obliterates any home invader at close range.

 

[rjd25]

If your shotgun can handle 3 1/2 Magnum loads get some Vital shock magnum loads which would be a clear advantage over a rifle at close range.
18 [eighteen] 00 buckshot pellets @ 1,150 fps with each trigger pull. That's like 18 9mm rounds at once. Pretty much obliterates any home invader at close range.

I have 00 buck for my shotgun but honestly I have been watching some scary videos on penetration of the buckshot and collateral damage in a home defense situation. They go right through drywall into any adjacent room.

 

[bigwheel]

I agree with you. Regular old Joe Biden dove loads work great inside buildings. Used to have a high Sheriff over in Foard County who had been a city cop for quite a few years in Midland or Odessa forget which right now..but he said in his copping days anytime they searched a metal building (which they apparently had a bunch of) for burglars they always loaded up with birdshot just to keep from poking holes in the nice building in case they had to pop a cap. Made sense when he splained it..lol. Should work similar on a residence. Will testify .12 gauge skeet loads can be devastating at close range. If the an alleged perp is too far away to be bothered with birdshot they are prob too far away to hurt a person.

 

[rjd25]

I agree with you. Regular old Joe Biden dove loads work great inside buildings. Used to have a high Sheriff over in Foard County who had been a city cop for quite a few years in Midland or Odessa forget which right now..but he said in his copping days anytime they searched a metal building (which they apparently had a bunch of) for burglars they always loaded up with birdshot just to keep from poking holes in the nice building in case they had to pop a cap. Made sense when he splained it..lol. Should work similar on a residence. Will testify .12 gauge skeet loads can be devastating at close range. If the an alleged perp is too far away to be bothered with birdshot they are prob too far away to hurt a person.

Yeah, it wouldn't be a successful home defense if you got the perp but killed your wife in the next room over.

 

[bigwheel]

Yeah, it wouldn't be a successful home defense if you got the perp but killed your wife in the next room over.

Yep good point. Think we had a discussion on the topic in an earlier thread and seems like somebody mentioned sometimes home invasion gang bangers would park near the victims house. Might be good to reach out and touch somebody on that kinda deal..maybe try to disable the vehicle etc. A slug should be just what the doctor ordered on that. Perhaps in a ideal world a person might want to set up the magazine for the first two as birdshot..a couple of buck..then a slug or so..figuring the middle and later shots would most likely be more distant than the first volley. Hard to figure all the various scenarios but believe that strategy would put the odds in favor of the good guys.

 

[tinkerhell]

You might want to plan for the worst case scenario, which could mean the bad guys are still alive and charging you when you reach your last shot.

 

[rjd25]

You might want to plan for the worst case scenario, which could mean the bad guys are still alive and charging you when you reach your last shot.

I've heard of some people on PCP doing just that... getting shot multiple times and still charging forward with their last breath. That's when the 9mm comes out.