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It's a good question because we believe the day is coming when basics like eggs, milk,
beef and other foods as well as electricity and water are going to be reserved for the elites or
preppers.

Do not discount the value of food, water, and power. Work hard to get set up, and be
as self-sufficient as possible. You will not regret it and will have GREAT VALUE.
 

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I am trying more items for indoor vegetable garden (our growing Season in Dakotas outside is limited) and am figuring out which hybrid approach works best re: hydro, soil, soil alternatives.. (Heirloom seeds, hybrid Approach) ;)
These are tomato plants yesterday:
Plant Flowerpot Houseplant Terrestrial plant Pet supply


I've had success with lettuce, herbs and just started carrots germinating. Nice to get closer to having year-round homegrown vegetables. :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
I am trying more items for indoor vegetable garden (our growing Season in Dakotas outside is limited) and am figuring out which hybrid approach works best re: hydro, soil, soil alternatives.. (Heirloom seeds, hybrid Approach) ;)
These are tomato plants yesterday:
View attachment 115199

I've had success with lettuce, herbs and just started carrots germinating. Nice to get closer to having year-round homegrown vegetables. :)
Great input. We live in a warm climate 12 months of the year but have a rainy season. We have different issues but it looks like you are doing great with the options you have
You can't put a price on countless human life's, and the sanctity of the republic
Absolutely correct. I meant what is the value to you and your family. People will likely be scraping
for the basics. We are true believers in going off-grid and being ready with self-preparation. I hope
we are wrong but the future looks a bit un-hinged
 

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If all goes bad the remaining 10% that survives will be living in the 1600's. If they are lucky. Is that life worth living??
Well, it would be difficult and often trying, but if you have food, power, electricity, and your family. It may not be too
bad. At the end of the day, on our end, we are working hard to avoid suffering and trying to maintain as normal
a life as possible.
 

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If all goes bad the remaining 10% that survives will be living in the 1600's. If they are lucky. Is that life worth living??
If only 10% are left? We'll be walking around in big hats and elegant clothes talking about how important our children are and issues with the trade routes?
You skin it back that far and people become higher value again and too happy to be sexualized or dopefied. It'd be a paradise.
 

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If all goes bad the remaining 10% that survives will be living in the 1600's. If they are lucky. Is that life worth living??
That's up to the individual, wouldn't you say? I've believed for some time that things were generally on a slow downhill slide. I've tried to determine the potential problems and how to minimize or eliminate them for a good while. I think that, along with an innate desire to continue living, is the hallmark of us preppers.

We're all going to die sooner or later, and there's no coming back. I'll take "dying later" for $800, Alex.
 

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If only 10% are left? We'll be walking around in big hats and elegant clothes talking about how important our children are and issues with the trade routes?
You skin it back that far and people become higher value again and too happy to be sexualized or dopefied. It'd be a paradise.
A unique response to it but many truths
 

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You can't put a price on countless human life's, and the sanctity of the republic
You actually can, in fact in fine and that's the greater obstacle, because no govt would pay it even if they could. Every life has a labor and supply cost attached to it and you have to have it for every life you intend to keep or you can't keep em.
Since the republic and people are what is under attack, there will be no way people can carry the load and many people will feel it is not worth the trouble, like people finding out they won't have a river of dope (like the homeless seem to all be on? Hows that happen?) Or that now, you have to be able to fight, run and hide to be homeless because the 'ol mental asylum bus is trolling around in the night and the savages are preying and sporting all day. (Yes? Sporting. Like males do when there is nothing else much to do)
The socialists are being denied pain pills and choosing suicide....but that was always going to be what happened to them. Like democrats.
So there will be a high mortality that is unavoidable, that people won't be able to do anything about, except throw their selves into the frenzy trying to keep more than they can.
The sheer numbers of people are mind boggling. There are so many that the number of them that will make it to the rural areas is a disaster.
I do not know the how or when but if a mass event happened, it would create a disaster of peoples.
I have a general set of contingencies that are based on keeping more than myself and the kids, but those are organic structures that require a foundation to begin with or you end up with a chaos of savages. If the weather is right and the money is there, sure I will help by plantation cropping. But I am prepared for the idea that we will be blessed to keep the animals and kids.
 

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You actually can, in fact in fine and that's the greater obstacle, because no govt would pay it even if they could. Every life has a labor and supply cost attached to it and you have to have it for every life you intend to keep or you can't keep em.
Since the republic and people are what is under attack, there will be no way people can carry the load and many people will feel it is not worth the trouble, like people finding out they won't have a river of dope (like the homeless seem to all be on? Hows that happen?) Or that now, you have to be able to fight, run and hide to be homeless because the 'ol mental asylum bus is trolling around in the night and the savages are preying and sporting all day. (Yes? Sporting. Like males do when there is nothing else much to do)
The socialists are being denied pain pills and choosing suicide....but that was always going to be what happened to them. Like democrats.
So there will be a high mortality that is unavoidable, that people won't be able to do anything about, except throw their selves into the frenzy trying to keep more than they can.
The sheer numbers of people are mind boggling. There are so many that the number of them that will make it to the rural areas is a disaster.
I do not know the how or when but if a mass event happened, it would create a disaster of peoples.
I have a general set of contingencies that are based on keeping more than myself and the kids, but those are organic structures that require a foundation to begin with or you end up with a chaos of savages. If the weather is right and the money is there, sure I will help by plantation cropping. But I am prepared for the idea that we will be blessed to keep the animals and kids.
Wow, It is scary to think of the chaos that is pending. Survival is likely to not only survive with the necessities like food, water, and power but the mere need to protect yourself from the desperate and needy that did not prepare.
 

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If all goes bad the remaining 10% that survives will be living in the 1600's. If they are lucky. Is that life worth living??
Why just the 1600s? Why not the 1700s or 1800s?

Since no one knows, why bother pondering the point? If it happens, I'll take a wait-and-see attitude and then when the dust settles, I'll make a decision.
 

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Why just the 1600s? Why not the 1700s or 1800s?

Since no one knows, why bother pondering the point? If it happens, I'll take a wait-and-see attitude and then when the dust settles, I'll make a decision.
It's what I heard on a show about the power grind going away. Foxnews if I remember. 90% death rate and be living back in the 1600's. Just repeating the news.
 

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It's what I heard on a show about the power grind going away. Foxnews if I remember. 90% death rate and be living back in the 1600's. Just repeating the news.
There's a lot of 'modern' knowledge that exists today that didn't back in those days. Just our knowing these things is a big plus. For instance, I remember a movie (Jericho?) where nukes took out all electronics, so people resorted to converting older automobiles to run on steam engines.
 

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If all goes bad the remaining 10% that survives will be living in the 1600's. If they are lucky. Is that life worth living??
Those so called 'percentages" are not accurate representations of the total population loss. There are infinite variables at play here, to the point where even gravity comes into the formulas, not to mention there isn't a person smart enough on this planet to do the calculations. Areas in between mountains for example of a much higher chance of not being affected for example.

I digress, living as our ancestors have back in the 1600's, 1800's, etc. was the only means of living that they knew. If you are saying that we as humanity would not be able to strive being brought back to that time period's way of life, well I guess some would indeed be rather lost, but I think as a whole humanity would still strive.

If on the other hand you are saying that on top of being brought back to a 1600's way of life that humanity is also facing the fallout of a Russian Nuclear Winter, a decimation of wildlife, aquatic life, and plant life, along with massive degradation of our bio-sphere/ozone layer , then yea I see no pleasure in living in that scenario while also fighting vs. our rivals like a Mad Max movie.

There's a lot of 'modern' knowledge that exists today that didn't back in those days. Just our knowing these things is a big plus. For instance, I remember a movie (Jericho?) where nukes took out all electronics, so people resorted to converting older automobiles to run on steam engines.
That wasn't a movie but a mini-series, and yes the name of the TV series was Jericho. I think later one of the actors played in a movie called Traitors, the guy from Jericho that had a nuke buried in his basement.

Ok but the part you mentioned about what knowledge we are aware of today.

This is where things get interesting. Having the knowledge, having the means, & having the resources are 3 separate animals.

I will use the dye shortage that hospitals still are facing for use of contrast for X-rays and Cat scans. We have the knowledge, the means, but are lacking the resources, ie. the 'dye'. It is kind of like the holy trinity, as in our case we need all 3 for things to function.

Let's use a car for another example, there are about 6,000 parts used to build a car (this number varies with having luxury additions), a company could outsource up to 80+%. Finding a part would be extremely difficult, no internet, no computer inventory locator, no means of calling a store to see if it is in stock. Some parts could be fabricated by yourself, but other parts like a spark plug would be out of a majority of people's ability to make, & this isn't even mentioning acquiring gasoline.



I should note, diesel , manual stick shift engines would be op due to not needing a battery to start the vehicle, and they are easier to fix than an automatic.

The knowledge we have is only valuable to us if we have the means and resources.
 

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Sic transit gloria mundi...

The 90% number probably comes from Dr. Peter Pry's testimony at a 2015 congressional hearing on the EMP threat.

Living in the 1600's sounds about right if we loose 90% of our medical infrastructure. By the 1700's the U.S. was getting pretty civilized, we even had medical schools starting to pop up. In the 1600's most people were still on their own if they got sick or injured

Having electricity in the home is a very new thing. 80 years ago large parts of the U.S. still didn't have power. My wife and I are both the first generation in our families to have grid power from birth.

I think humans will thrive after a "90% event". Life will be hard, life expectancy will go down, but humans are resilient and adaptive.
 

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Sic transit gloria mundi...

The 90% number probably comes from Dr. Peter Pry's testimony at a 2015 congressional hearing on the EMP threat.

Living in the 1600's sounds about right if we loose 90% of our medical infrastructure. By the 1700's the U.S. was getting pretty civilized, we even had medical schools starting to pop up. In the 1600's most people were still on their own if they got sick or injured

Having electricity in the home is a very new thing. 80 years ago large parts of the U.S. still didn't have power. My wife and I are both the first generation in our families to have grid power from birth.

I think humans will thrive after a "90% event". Life will be hard, life expectancy will go down, but humans are resilient and adaptive.
Interesting that you and your wife are the first to have power on the grid from birth. I never really thought about it but my mother had no electricity or running water as a child. When I was younger and would go to visit my grandparents, they had power but still no running water. I do agree, we as humans are strong and will adapt. It seems the "masses" are
blind and all going about life as if all is normal. Preparation in all areas of life, retirement, emergency planning, and
so on is so overlooked in most of today's spoiled culture
 
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