[bigdogbuc]

In an effort to avoid a "Ford vs. Chevy" dispute, I would like to put up my disclaimer that rarely is anything perfect, or the ultimate, or the "one and only". This is only my opinion and I know that many opinions may differ slightly, totally or not at all with mine.

I feel that the pump action shotgun is most versatile weapon out there. I can hunt with it, whether my quarry is in air or on the ground. I can take small, medium or large game with it. I can take dangerous animals with it. I have a wide, almost infinite choice of ammunition for it, from #8 shot to '000' Buck, slugs of varying weights and even some very interesting, off the wall "who would've thunk it" rounds.

I can fight with it. I can hit a human sized target with a 1 oz. lead projectile at over 200 yards. I can take down a charging bear at 5. I can shoot bad guys through car doors, front doors, back doors and sliding glass doors. If it has two legs or four, I can take it. It is the most devastating close combat weapon I can think of. It breeds fear, can breathe fire and hammer tent stakes at night. After-Market accessories and limitless configurations such as stocks, optics, lights and the like are as available as the air we breathe.

They are easy to operate, easy to clean, reliable and controllable. If I were to have to pick one weapon, and one weapon only, in a SHTF/Survival Scenario, I would take a 12 Gauge Pump Action Shotgun, hands down.

 

[C5GUY]

I agree with your post 113%!! I love my Mossberg 500 pump 12ga. it loads 6 rounds of 00 buck and can clear out a crowd faster than any other weapon short of an grenade. Just the sound it makes when I pump it will make most men weak in their knees. As you mentioned if it gets to hand to hand it also makes a great weapon all by itself. Buy used and learn out to tear down, clean and use with your eyes closed. You will feel much more secure just having it in your home. ::rambo::

 

[acidlittle]

I need to get me a mossberg 500 12ga, It's been on my want list but I keep spending my money on ammo and silver and gear!

 

[ZillaMonster]

I spend toooo much on gear also! Need more guns!

I agree with the shotgun is the most versatile gun out there. Everything you said is true. The remington 870s and mossberg 500's are two of the best and most common upgradeable ones out there.

 

[Nuclearcujo]

I agree with all the above. I recently purchased a Remington 870 and love it so far!

 

[whyspers]

I was in Dick's Sporting Goods today to look at their freeze dried food selection. A guy working in the firearms section asked if I needed any help. I had about ten packets of food in my hands for the BOBS, and just off the cuff, I asked if they had an AR15. They did, but it was high on the wall so I couldn't see it very well. I asked if it had a collapsible stock and the guy looked at me like I was a terrorist or something and proceeded to tell me that collapsible stocks were illegal in New York and the magazine couldn't hold more than 10 rounds and about half a dozen other things. Oooookay. Forget browsing. I'll wait until I get back home to go gun shopping. Bet they won't be reaching with one hand towards a phone to DHS because I asked a simple question. Sheesh.

 

[Leon]

This is one of my favs: Mossy 5. Watch Glockwork9 blast out 4 like butter and wonder if it was ready to shoot.

 

[preop]

Actually, the shotgun is nothing like as versatile/useful as people "think". Your buck pattern wont be centered on the target. If you COULD reliablly center the target, you'd be using a rifle, eh? Nobody practices enough with 30c rifle ammo, so somehow "magically" you are going to be that skilled with 50c+ shotgun slugs? With the heavy recoil, poor trigger pull and poor sights of all shotguns? As vs the skill you can easily have with a 223 autorifle, by means of using a sound suppressor and practicing with a 4c per shot, $150 .22lr conversion unit? The suppressor makes the 223 every bit as "tame" to use as the unsuppressed .22 unit in the 223. Ciener's site gives info about .22 units, but dont buy from him directly, he's been indicted for fraud. Get your .22 unit from a 3rd party vendor, like Graf and Sons, in Mexico, MO, Widener's, etc.

12 ga shells weigh 10 to the lb, so just how many each will you have, of buck, slugs, birdshot? Many think that having only 200 rds of rifle ammo is not enough. Birdshot is pretty worthless in combat, and slugs are worthless on small game. Buckshot aint worth much on small game and birdshot is worthless on big animals, beyond about 20 ft of range (and then it would still take a head shot). There are no effective sound suppressors or flashhiders for shotguns, so the flash at night easilly guides in enemy fire, and it ruins your night vision, too.

The .22 unit in the 223 auto, using a suppressor and subsonic ammo, is BB gun quiet. So why call in every enemy within 2 miles with a 12 ga blast on a rabbit? All 3-4 guys with AK's have to do is hide behind big trees, cars, etc, and you will be helpless against them at a mere 100 yds, with your shotgun. They can probably shoot thru your "cover", and you can't shoot thru a tire or a car door or windshield at more than 10 yds with 00 buck, and then only if it's at a 90 degree angle of impact. Unless you have a 20 rd drum mag, you will shortly be out of ammo for the shotgun, and carrying spare ammo and reloading is a drag, with a tubular mag. Try it sometime, at night, in the rain, in the mud, prone, with either gloves on or with cold-numbed fingers. Murphy says that nothing about combat will go as you wish it would, you know.

Keep the 223 auto in 223 "mode" unless you see a need for the quiet .22lr (135 rds to the lb). Then and then only do you make the 20 second parts swap to .22lr. As soon as the 22 type target is dealt with, you immediately swap back to 223, in case you have need of the 223's much greater penetration, range and power.

 

[Jazzman]

In an effort to avoid a "Ford vs. Chevy" dispute, I would like to put up my disclaimer that rarely is anything perfect, or the ultimate, or the "one and only". This is only my opinion and I know that many opinions may differ slightly, totally or not at all with mine.

I feel that the pump action shotgun is most versatile weapon out there. I can hunt with it, whether my quarry is in air or on the ground. I can take small, medium or large game with it. I can take dangerous animals with it. I have a wide, almost infinite choice of ammunition for it, from #8 shot to '000' Buck, slugs of varying weights and even some very interesting, off the wall "who would've thunk it" rounds.

I can fight with it. I can hit a human sized target with a 1 oz. lead projectile at over 200 yards. I can take down a charging bear at 5. I can shoot bad guys through car doors, front doors, back doors and sliding glass doors. If it has two legs or four, I can take it. It is the most devastating close combat weapon I can think of. It breeds fear, can breathe fire and hammer tent stakes at night. After-Market accessories and limitless configurations such as stocks, optics, lights and the like are as available as the air we breathe.

They are easy to operate, easy to clean, reliable and controllable. If I were to have to pick one weapon, and one weapon only, in a SHTF/Survival Scenario, I would take a 12 Gauge Pump Action Shotgun, hands down.

Have you ever faced one of the Big Bears in a DLP scenario with a slug gun? I have , they'll work with brennekes BUT there's good reasons why my northern DLP rifles are a '95 Guide Gin in .45-70 with extended mag or a BAR with BOSS in .338winmag , both set up with ghostrings.

And nope I'm not argueing the versatility factor , however there are edges to any performance envelope , and big Bear , hogs and moose are on the ragged edge for a 12 gauge.

 

[preop]

I'd be happier facing such a critter with a 308 autorifle, thanks. Since 12 ga slugs to the chest often let 100 lb deer run a ways, there is no reason at all to think that such hits will reliably stop a charging, 1000 lb bear or larger moose! Many top hands have had animals flee after getting chest hits with 458 softpoints. So brain or (luck) spine hits are all that can be counted upon) There is no reason at all to take twice as long for repeat tries at the brain, which is what the 45 -70 lever does. Do you even HAVE an electronic shooting timer? Repeat hits on the 6" brain circle, at 10 yds, can be had with a 308 auto in .30 second. The 45/70 or 338 costs as much per shot (for RELOADING COMPONENTS) as loaded milsurp 308 ammo, so you would be doing all that work for nothing. The 308 has plenty of power for brain hits, and actually, using something like the Nosler Partition softpoint, it's quite adequate for chest hits, as well.

 

[Jazzman]

I'd be happier facing such a critter with a 308 autorifle, thanks. Since 12 ga slugs to the chest often let 100 lb deer run a ways, there is no reason at all to think that such hits will reliably stop a charging, 1000 lb bear or larger moose! Many top hands have had animals flee after getting chest hits with 458 softpoints. So brain or (luck) spine hits are all that can be counted upon) There is no reason at all to take twice as long for repeat tries at the brain, which is what the 45 -70 lever does. Do you even HAVE an electronic shooting timer? Repeat hits on the 6" brain circle, at 10 yds, can be had with a 308 auto in .30 second. The 45/70 or 338 costs as much per shot (for RELOADING COMPONENTS) as loaded milsurp 308 ammo, so you would be doing all that work for nothing. The 308 has plenty of power for brain hits, and actually, using something like the Nosler Partition softpoint, it's quite adequate for chest hits, as well.

Uh HUH. You've already been tossed. However for folks who actually give credence to the CRAP above , well take a CLOSE look at what folks standing Bear guard for tourist fisherman are carrying , now look at what guides who are backing up their clients are carrying.

And all this from a guy that started an arguement based on his postulation that .45 acp won't stop a housecat.

 

[mwhartman]

I like my Remington 870 with an extended tube for HD. Additionally, I like the 8 rounds of 00 buck shot she provides.

 

[Xplorer]

I have had a Rem. 870 for many years. When the 1st one got stolen, (someone stole it from my locked truck....never leave a gun case in view even in your own rural driveway) I went out & bought another, better one. This one has 2 barrels, rifled & smooth, which are easily changed & will knock a 200lb deer off it's 4 feet with 1 shot. After seeing what this gun can do with sabot slugs to a deer, I doubt a human being would take another step. Aside from my 10/22, this is the gun I want with me at all times if SHTF. Yes the ammo is heavy, but I plan on bugging in & my house can store alot of ammo.

 

[thomasdangerpowers]

In an effort to avoid a "Ford vs. Chevy" dispute, I would like to put up my disclaimer that rarely is anything perfect, or the ultimate, or the "one and only". This is only my opinion and I know that many opinions may differ slightly, totally or not at all with mine.

I feel that the pump action shotgun is most versatile weapon out there. I can hunt with it, whether my quarry is in air or on the ground. I can take small, medium or large game with it. I can take dangerous animals with it. I have a wide, almost infinite choice of ammunition for it, from #8 shot to '000' Buck, slugs of varying weights and even some very interesting, off the wall "who would've thunk it" rounds.

I can fight with it. I can hit a human sized target with a 1 oz. lead projectile at over 200 yards. I can take down a charging bear at 5. I can shoot bad guys through car doors, front doors, back doors and sliding glass doors. If it has two legs or four, I can take it. It is the most devastating close combat weapon I can think of. It breeds fear, can breathe fire and hammer tent stakes at night. After-Market accessories and limitless configurations such as stocks, optics, lights and the like are as available as the air we breathe.

They are easy to operate, easy to clean, reliable and controllable. If I were to have to pick one weapon, and one weapon only, in a SHTF/Survival Scenario, I would take a 12 Gauge Pump Action Shotgun, hands down.

I would personally not recommend a shotgun as a primary only because of its limited range. I've seen guys putting a laser, bayonette, a scope and slugs won't change that limited range and accuracy. If you get into a firefight with some guy who has a rifle he can hit you from way farther and even a rifled barrel and slugs won't match the accuracy of a rifle even using plain iron sights agianst an of these tactical shotguns all over you tube. A shotgun in my opinion IS THE ULTIMATE close quarters weapon but you don't want to be close. I would get a SKS or AK if on a budget they mave more moving parts but still very reliable. I have an 8rd Mossberg Maverick 88(with all kinds accessories) and I love it, but if I had to choose one and run I would take the AR because it can reach out and touch someone from a safe distance. If we get and injured and our wounds get infected during a SHTF senario your SOL

 

[errorborne]

I like my shotgun, can't hit anything at 200 yards but I still like it. If I could take only one firearm it would be a 22 carbine. Shotguns come after 22s.

With a 12 guage you also have the ability to do some highly creative reloading.

There is something to be said for creative expression.

 

[thomasdangerpowers]

On the other hand if you could buy a AA12 this conversation would be over hands down! These are way cool, full auto, no recoil, fires 360 rounds per minute, 32 round drum, hits up to 200 yards away and they even make grenade rounds for this thing.

 

[RuDown]

I will not argue with either side here. Different weapon for different purpose. If you are trying to stay quite why would you ever hunt with a firearm. Get a bow. Of course depending on what you are hunting and where you are. Just all depends on what you are doing.

 

[thomasdangerpowers]

Very true as for myself I am looking at it purely as self defense. I believe we are heading for an economic collapse in the US. However I personally don't plan much on hunting. to me it seem unrealistic to plan on survive by hunting. During the last depression we almost annihilated wild game like deer and wild hogs and there were alot less people back then and alot more wooded areas. Today 300 million people to hunt 10 million deer, I think we should plan on birds, squirrel, and insects because deer and boar will be wiped out and fast as people hunt like crazy to stock up the freezer. I remenber when there was a hurrican in Huston Tx and people rushed in to the meat market i work at in Austin Tx buying 3 inch thick steaks to fill up the freeze, and that was when there was potential for the storm to hit us and knock out the power here too. its grim but realistic to think this will be the case, and no come up with another plan for food. I'll hunt too at first but wonder how long there will be game out there as I compete with the masses for the same animals for survival

 

[mwhartman]

Very true as for myself I am looking at it purely as self defense. I believe we are heading for an economic collapse in the US. However I personally don't plan much on hunting. to me it seem unrealistic to plan on survive by hunting. During the last depression we almost annihilated wild game like deer and wild hogs and there were alot less people back then and alot more wooded areas. Today 300 million people to hunt 10 million deer, I think we should plan on birds, squirrel, and insects because deer and boar will be wiped out and fast as people hunt like crazy to stock up the freezer. I remenber when there was a hurrican in Huston Tx and people rushed in to the meat market i work at in Austin Tx buying 3 inch thick steaks to fill up the freeze, and that was when there was potential for the storm to hit us and knock out the power here too. its grim but realistic to think this will be the case, and no come up with another plan for food. I'll hunt too at first but wonder how long there will be game out there as I compete with the masses for the same animals for survival

I share your view on our economy and that is why I've prepared. Everything that I've purchased can be used on a rotating basis.

No matter how prepared we "think" we are there is always something more we can do.

 

[mwhartman]

I agree with all the above. I recently purchased a Remington 870 and love it so far!

I have the same shotgun with an extended tube. Like you, I love it! Very very reliable.