Self defence vs Traditional Martial Arts
1 - 20 of 52 Posts
Joined
·
433 Posts
I have a 1st. degree Black Belt in Taekwondo as well as an instructor's certification in PPCT (Pressure Point Control Tatics) and do some limited training in Hapkido. I have not competed in close to 12 years but still practice at home and sometimes in my local Dojo. I feel that just the training and discipline alone that one gets from Martial Arts is worth the sweat, pain and effort.
Joined
·
2,112 Posts
I took Okinawan Kempo Karate years ago. And had a great instructor (3rd Degree BB, studied in Okinawa). I also Dabbled in this or that here and there. But the majority of my self defense training/takedowns came from law enforcement. C5GUY is right, martial arts provides a concrete foundation for self discipline. Self Discipline builds confidence and confidence provides you the base for taking appropriate action.
Despite more bumps, scrapes and bruises than I can count, and a permanent disability from a shoulder injury, I thankfully never had it handed to me. But man, there were times when you just knew it was going to hurt before you even got started. When I was in a full out brawl I tried to do two things; Get control of the head (where the head goes, the body follows) and get them to the ground. And when on the ground, I found that one of two things happened; they either tucked their hands underneath of them (which means they can't hit you), or they try to get up which keeps their hands busy (and unable to hit you) and that can give you the opportunity to conduct a behind the back flexibility test by seeing if you can touch their wrist to the back of their head. Mostly, you just hung on waited for back-up. Pepper Spray sucks (used it three times after hundreds of arrests - only worked once) and I used my ASP Baton once (to break out a window serving an arrest warrant).
And I wouldn't want to mess with C5GUY. There was a filipino guy I worked with, he was about 6', maybe 180 lbs. He was a Second Degree Black Belt in Taekwondo. Had a wall full of trophies at home. We used to set up targets on the top edges of the lockers in the squad room or have the tallest officer on duty hold whatever we could find and Henry, in uniform and full duty gear (gunbelt, radio, vest) would come straight off the floor, pull a round house and nail whatever we put up for him. And all before we could even process what just happened. We told him if he ever needed it, we'd just shoot him and skip the fight.
However, with some rigorous training and dedication, you can easily become a Master of Click-Ching-Pow. This is my prefered study. And avoiding situations so I don't have to use it.
Despite more bumps, scrapes and bruises than I can count, and a permanent disability from a shoulder injury, I thankfully never had it handed to me. But man, there were times when you just knew it was going to hurt before you even got started. When I was in a full out brawl I tried to do two things; Get control of the head (where the head goes, the body follows) and get them to the ground. And when on the ground, I found that one of two things happened; they either tucked their hands underneath of them (which means they can't hit you), or they try to get up which keeps their hands busy (and unable to hit you) and that can give you the opportunity to conduct a behind the back flexibility test by seeing if you can touch their wrist to the back of their head. Mostly, you just hung on waited for back-up. Pepper Spray sucks (used it three times after hundreds of arrests - only worked once) and I used my ASP Baton once (to break out a window serving an arrest warrant).
And I wouldn't want to mess with C5GUY. There was a filipino guy I worked with, he was about 6', maybe 180 lbs. He was a Second Degree Black Belt in Taekwondo. Had a wall full of trophies at home. We used to set up targets on the top edges of the lockers in the squad room or have the tallest officer on duty hold whatever we could find and Henry, in uniform and full duty gear (gunbelt, radio, vest) would come straight off the floor, pull a round house and nail whatever we put up for him. And all before we could even process what just happened. We told him if he ever needed it, we'd just shoot him and skip the fight.
However, with some rigorous training and dedication, you can easily become a Master of Click-Ching-Pow. This is my prefered study. And avoiding situations so I don't have to use it.
I grew up in a tang soo do school, have to say some of the army hand to hand looks ok and so does krav magra but then again I have seen mere American amateur boxers hold their weight against several men and win. I have indeed had to use what I was taught several times on the streets when I was younger, now I just carry a gun but its definitely a good thing to be indoctrinated in
40 plus years. Fought both as an amateur and a pro. But judging from the discussion so far I'll keep my mouth shut so as to keep from offending anyone present here.
There's a great deal of outright crap and a great many hustlers and con artists within the martial arts community , caveat emptor.
that's right. After you've had a lot of one on one instruction and sparring practice, THEN you can learn things from books and videos, if there truly is anything to be learned from such sources. I learned a bit from Oyama's THIS IS KARATE. Google for Masutatzo Oyama, and look at the pics of him chopping the neck off of beer bottles, leaving the rest of the bottle sitting on the table. Then TELL me that you think that one strike or kick, by a truly trained man, won't stop the average joe in his tracks. 
And now ya ****ed up but good , one of the systems I hold Dan rank in is Kyokushinkai. And I know of NOBODY within the context of the sytem who CANNOT spell Mas Oyama's name correctly. You don't.that's right. After you've had a lot of one on one instruction and sparring practice, THEN you can learn things from books and videos, if there truly is anything to be learned from such sources. I learned a bit from Oyama's THIS IS KARATE. Google for Masutatzo Oyama, and look at the pics of him chopping the neck off of beer bottles, leaving the rest of the bottle sitting on the table. Then TELL me that you think that one strike or kick, by a truly trained man, won't stop the average joe in his tracks.
That speaks absolute volumes , as does your rhetoric within the above , quite simply you never fought a " knockdown" style tournament in your life......see here's what your ONE punch bullshit tells me..........that you never ever seriously studied Kyokushinkai beyond perusal of a BOOK.........students ARE NOT taught to stop at a single technique in a combat or defensive situation.
And knocking the neck off a bottle is a parlor trick , and that's ALL it is.
See the above folks? DANGEROUS ADVICE. Anyone who underestimates the " untrained man" is a fool , those who think a pissant backknuckle will stop a tough man are larger fools.
It's NOT a points tournament folks , and ****no matter what your rank***** it's not some magic panacea. I've seen a lot of " trained" folks get their ass handed to them by folks who have no formal training but who have fought on the street for a long time.
*****NO****** specific " system" is the answer , it's WHAT *you* do with the given system , and systems that are still primarily combat oriented will stand one in much better stead in a much more expedient manner than most sport based systems taught in a non resistive manner.
There's a great many myths floating about............suffice to say , if you walk into a dojo/dojang/kwoon etc on " sparring night" and there is NO contact even among the upper ranks.............WALK.
If they even say the word CONTRACT................WALK.
If the guy trying to sell you on the place is 23 years old and claiming Dan rank in several different systems..........WALK
If you know what you're looking for and you observe crap stances and shitty mechanics..............WALK.
Joined
·
640 Posts
ROTAC... the bottom line with any martial art is that no matter how long you train... in a real life "oh shit" situation... you will fall back on the one or two techniques you have come to "own"... and then hope for the best. They won't be pretty or sharp and won't follow some kata you learned in the dojo. It won't look like anything you practiced and I doubt your fellow students would recognize it. That's just a fact when you have to "react" and you are facing someone who wants to harm you instead of an Uke. I don't know if you are Bujinkan or not... but I think Soke Hatsumi said it best: "If you do something and it saves your life, it was good taijutsu. In a real fight, you aren't worried about what's pretty."
Joined
·
436 Posts
I taught the military version of Tae Kwon Do for 15 years but also held black belts in Kenpo, and Aikido. I taught several police departments in the 70's a combination of basic hand to hand techniques put together for all of these styles as well as women's self defense courses. I retired in '79 due to starting a new business as a security contractor for large corporations and later some government work as well. Retired in 85 returning to the private sector in a completely different field mostly due to age catching up to me. Along the way also picked up training in survival skills, weapons training, driving skills as taught by many of the military/government forces in this country. Nothing wrong with learning a traditional martial art as long as you find what works for you physically as not every one everything will work for at the end of the day.
Joined
·
20 Posts
I have some Japanese Jiujitsu. I am no expert but I am confident.
In my opinion, people should focus on escaping bad positions and defending from chokes as much as if not more than training "attacks".
My philosophy is: striking suddenly isn't all that important if you find yourself on your back with a bigger stronger guy on top of you beating your head in. you need to know how to defend. that is what will save your life. spinning back fists and flying knees are cool to watch but most likely won't be practical in a typical self defense situation. defense doesn't even have to be anything especially fancy. being able to "read" your opponent and scoot yourself round and put your heels on his hips to press him off you and make space or knowing to grab his jacket sleeves and control his arms and buy yourself some time to breathe and calculate a plan. even if you can body triangle around him and control his body you can get yourself into a position to assert yourself and make him regret attacking you.
Ideally, you will never BE on your back getting pummeled but we live in an imperfect world where there is always someone bigger and stronger or more ninja than you that can and will get the drop on you. especially if you just "get caught" and it goes to the ground, knowing defense and escape is important.
people that learn striking styles may not share my opinion or philosophy of it. I am just saying what I find to be true for myself and it may not hold true for someone else.
In my opinion, people should focus on escaping bad positions and defending from chokes as much as if not more than training "attacks".
My philosophy is: striking suddenly isn't all that important if you find yourself on your back with a bigger stronger guy on top of you beating your head in. you need to know how to defend. that is what will save your life. spinning back fists and flying knees are cool to watch but most likely won't be practical in a typical self defense situation. defense doesn't even have to be anything especially fancy. being able to "read" your opponent and scoot yourself round and put your heels on his hips to press him off you and make space or knowing to grab his jacket sleeves and control his arms and buy yourself some time to breathe and calculate a plan. even if you can body triangle around him and control his body you can get yourself into a position to assert yourself and make him regret attacking you.
Ideally, you will never BE on your back getting pummeled but we live in an imperfect world where there is always someone bigger and stronger or more ninja than you that can and will get the drop on you. especially if you just "get caught" and it goes to the ground, knowing defense and escape is important.
people that learn striking styles may not share my opinion or philosophy of it. I am just saying what I find to be true for myself and it may not hold true for someone else.
Joined
·
436 Posts
Situational awareness is the best defense in my opinion for every one. Simply look for and expect trouble regardless and move away to avoid it if at all possible.
Joined
·
20 Posts
I agree. sometimes situations are unavoidable though despite precautions taken.
Joined
·
6 Posts
I train in Sanshinkai Karate and Sanshinkai Jujitsu. At the particular dojo I attend there is an Aikido class going on simultaneously and then continuing after we leave. So far I've never seen anyone throw an actual punch, kick, push, etc. All I've seen is a person allowing the other person to move them around and then "throw" them on the ground. I have no doubt the Sensei could probably handle himself but I feel the others are not adequately prepared for an actual attack.
Joined
·
6 Posts
Your wording of "now I just carry a gun" gives the impression you believe a firearm is a substitute for some sort of hand-to-hand defensive ability because that is down right ludicrous. As the first thread I read on this forum I hope this isn't a common theme around here.
Joined
·
640 Posts
Kayakinack... let me offer the reverse as some advice... this is the first thread response of yours I have read and you are already flamming other members.... to use your own words: "let's hope this isn't a common theme around here."
The idea and intent from our forum admin is that everyone gets to express an opinion. If you disagree with someone, then say so and explain why so that others can learn from it. But... flaming others because you disagree does three things: 1) it will turn off other newcomers to this forum 2) Will cause other members to form negative opinions of you 3) Could result in you getting banned.
So, please consider what and how you type in the future. I'm sure you have great info to share.... so please focus on that.
The idea and intent from our forum admin is that everyone gets to express an opinion. If you disagree with someone, then say so and explain why so that others can learn from it. But... flaming others because you disagree does three things: 1) it will turn off other newcomers to this forum 2) Will cause other members to form negative opinions of you 3) Could result in you getting banned.
So, please consider what and how you type in the future. I'm sure you have great info to share.... so please focus on that.
1 - 20 of 52 Posts
Join the discussion
Join now to ask and comment!