Undocumented workers do not pay income tax. Most do not even exist because they are paid in cash under the table. They live in a state paying for food and shelter (sometimes not paying for shelter) and the only taxes they pay are on the goods they purchase. As undocumented inhabitants they are not licensed to drive but some do own cars and drive them - without a license and without insurance.
rebuilding America
Ok, here is just a few measly ideas.
Three months, for every citizen, soldier, diplomat, whatever to come home. No consulats, no nothing.
Zero help to any other country for one year. None. Take care of americans.
All returned military are at schools or border, respect the veterans.
Closed borders. No one gets in. Sorry.
Reevaluate govt.
Smaller. Not bigger.
Welfare is temporay.
Just a start. Tired of typing on phone.
Three months, for every citizen, soldier, diplomat, whatever to come home. No consulats, no nothing.
Zero help to any other country for one year. None. Take care of americans.
All returned military are at schools or border, respect the veterans.
Closed borders. No one gets in. Sorry.
Reevaluate govt.
Smaller. Not bigger.
Welfare is temporay.
Just a start. Tired of typing on phone.
41 - 60 of 72 Posts
The do pay taxes and unless hired off the books, which is illegal by the employer. They then they do pay into the system regardless. Oh and I'll bet many more are working on the books than off especially in places like the farming industry.Undocumented workers do not pay income tax. Most do not even exist because they are paid in cash under the table. They live in a state paying for food and shelter (sometimes not paying for shelter) and the only taxes they pay are on the goods they purchase. As undocumented inhabitants they are not licensed to drive but some do own cars and drive them - without a license and without insurance.
How does an undocumented worker pay income tax? Without documentation there is no way to withhold taxes. The last time I checked you need a social security card to be hired (on the books). Even a 1099 requires documentation and a social security number. Undocumented workers cannot be legally hired but they still work and they do so without the protections afforded documented employees. They have no on-the-job injury care - so they use the emergency rooms at the hospital. They can't afford to pay so they use an assumed identity. They don't have protections about overtime pay so they often work more than 40 hours a week for minimum wages (sometimes less than the standard minimum wage) without vacations or sick leave. Once they are hurt they can lose their "job" or have to go for a time without working. They send their surplus money out of the country to family or friends.The do pay taxes and unless hired off the books, which is illegal by the employer. They then they do pay into the system regardless. Oh and I'll bet many more are working on the books than off especially in places like the farming industry.
Some work in the construction field and on their off time do work on their own - without the licenses or insurance that is required by law.
How can you say that undocumented workers pay income tax?
Did I say he pays income tax? I said he pays taxes on the gas he buys, rent for a place to live, utilities he uses and sales tax. Now not all illegals are hired off the books just as Tyson Foods for example or those here on a work visa that have stayed past their extension. The IRS sure doesn't cross reference if you are legal or illegal in this country either. They don't even cross reference birth and death certificates for the voter rolls in this country or issued ID.How does an undocumented worker pay income tax? Without documentation there is no way to withhold taxes. The last time I checked you need a social security card to be hired (on the books). Even a 1099 requires documentation and a social security number. Undocumented workers cannot be legally hired but they still work and they do so without the protections afforded documented employees. They have no on-the-job injury care - so they use the emergency rooms at the hospital. They can't afford to pay so they use an assumed identity. They don't have protections about overtime pay so they often work more than 40 hours a week for minimum wages (sometimes less than the standard minimum wage) without vacations or sick leave. Once they are hurt they can lose their "job" or have to go for a time without working. They send their surplus money out of the country to family or friends.
Some work in the construction field and on their off time do work on their own - without the licenses or insurance that is required by law.
How can you say that undocumented workers pay income tax?
I have to disagree with this. I have worked in the produce/veg farming industry for many years.. Some of the very large companies stick with 'documented" workers and I use that term loosely. The vast majority that had papers change them up almost every year. They use ss card from friends,family and whoever else they can get them from. Then they claim 8-10 dependents. There are a few that are working legally but not the majority.The do pay taxes and unless hired off the books, which is illegal by the employer. They then they do pay into the system regardless. Oh and I'll bet many more are working on the books than off especially in places like the farming industry.
Now when you get into the smaller to medium sized farms that is where the vast majority of illegals work. A lot pay cash and don't even bother with papers.. Over the years, even some of the ones I thought were documented turned out to be illegal. You could hear them talking about where they were going to get their next ss card or other paperwork for the next season.
Then come payday they were down the street at the habib store sending western union to Mexico. So the majority of the money they make doesn't even go here. I asked a few of them over the years about sending money to Mexico. They say they send more than half back there. That is why so amny live together and drive around together. It is a way to save money.. Actually, it is kind of smart.
I don't disagee at all other than there are taxes on every item we consume except the air we breath so they pay into the system even though they don't pay income tax. Though when you think about the money the actually make for the work they do under the table if they where ligament they probably still wouldn't pay much income tax either.I have to disagree with this. I have worked in the produce/veg farming industry for many years.. Some of the very large companies stick with 'documented" workers and I use that term loosely. The vast majority that had papers change them up almost every year. They use ss card from friends,family and whoever else they can get them from. Then they claim 8-10 dependents. There are a few that are working legally but not the majority.
Now when you get into the smaller to medium sized farms that is where the vast majority of illegals work. A lot pay cash and don't even bother with papers.. Over the years, even some of the ones I thought were documented turned out to be illegal. You could hear them talking about where they were going to get their next ss card or other paperwork for the next season.
Then come payday they were down the street at the habib store sending western union to Mexico. So the majority of the money they make doesn't even go here. I asked a few of them over the years about sending money to Mexico. They say they send more than half back there. That is why so amny live together and drive around together. It is a way to save money.. Actually, it is kind of smart.
Agreed, but when they send a majority of their paycheck to Mexico, they are not spending it here and it is not being taxed. So we are losing billions or more just on that alone. Add welfare and medical on top of that to illegals and they are costing this country a fortune.I don't disagee at all other than there are taxes on every item we consume except the air we breath so they pay into the system even though they don't pay income tax. Though when you think about the money the actually make for the work they do under the table if they where ligament they probably still wouldn't pay much income tax either.
You keep using the term "illegals" and I am talking about "undocumented". Not all "illegals" are undocumented. Like you say - those who stay after their visas expire - they are still documented workers. The vast majority of those who enter the USA are undocumented. They never went through the crossing station, they have no visas, and they are here to make money to send home. Those are undocumented workers. I worked for a company that hired a "contractor" for "lumpers" (men who unload and load trucks that have to be manually loaded). The "contractor" was an American citizen who filed his 1099 with the company but his workers were all undocumented workers. The company didn't care because they didn't actually "hire" the workers they dealt with the contractor. In some ways I felt bad for these guys because they were paid very little and had no benefits. One of them was injured on the job and was told that he couldn't seek medical care because he didn't have a Social Security card. He was told that if he complained he would not get his pay and he would lose his job. I was working for Sysco at the time and brought it up to our safety coordinator who replied that it was not his job to take care of the contractors business. At the same time I know that these guys are living in America for 9 months out of the year and not paying income taxes and sending dollars to Mexico. They are diving without a license or insurance. If they get into an accident it is just too bad for the other driver because there is no recourse - they have nothing you can sue for or attach for compensation. They are costing us a lot of money and taking jobs away from others who actually live here.Did I say he pays income tax? I said he pays taxes on the gas he buys, rent for a place to live, utilities he uses and sales tax. Now not all illegals are hired off the books just as Tyson Foods for example or those here on a work visa that have stayed past their extension. The IRS sure doesn't cross reference if you are legal or illegal in this country either. They don't even cross reference birth and death certificates for the voter rolls in this country or issued ID.
Don't get me wrong. The guys that worked for me were some of the hardest working people I have ever seen. I would work em 100 hrs a week and they would ask to be on a cleanup crew or something to make more overtime. They never called in sick or complained about anything I ever asked them to do. There were several when I left my last company that wanted to come work for me out here.. I had over a dozen that followed me to 3 different places over the years. They would invite me to their homes for dinner and parties and I would have them over for parties and stuff. I always treated them with respect. I know some were legal and some of the others I questioned in my mind but wasn't sure. Just because they are good people doesn't mean they can break the law though. If someone wants to come here the right way and work hard like they did. I am ALL for it. But the ones that hop the fence and milk the system are not helping this country one bit..
I am using the term illegal as that seems to be the current accepted term here. I don't have a problem with either term really as to me I really don't see a problem with immigration at all.You keep using the term "illegals" and I am talking about "undocumented". Not all "illegals" are undocumented. Like you say - those who stay after their visas expire - they are still documented workers. The vast majority of those who enter the USA are undocumented. They never went through the crossing station, they have no visas, and they are here to make money to send home. Those are undocumented workers. I worked for a company that hired a "contractor" for "lumpers" (men who unload and load trucks that have to be manually loaded). The "contractor" was an American citizen who filed his 1099 with the company but his workers were all undocumented workers. The company didn't care because they didn't actually "hire" the workers they dealt with the contractor. In some ways I felt bad for these guys because they were paid very little and had no benefits. One of them was injured on the job and was told that he couldn't seek medical care because he didn't have a Social Security card. He was told that if he complained he would not get his pay and he would lose his job. I was working for Sysco at the time and brought it up to our safety coordinator who replied that it was not his job to take care of the contractors business. At the same time I know that these guys are living in America for 9 months out of the year and not paying income taxes and sending dollars to Mexico. They are diving without a license or insurance. If they get into an accident it is just too bad for the other driver because there is no recourse - they have nothing you can sue for or attach for compensation. They are costing us a lot of money and taking jobs away from others who actually live here.
I had a tenant here for a year or so that bought and refinished foreclosed homes. He bragged one day about how he only hires undocumented workers because he pays them half of what he would pay documented workers. He also claimed he worked them longer hours with no breaks other than lunch. He eventually did go to jail but not for that but something else not related to his business practices. Sure don't miss him or his type either.
Sounds like a scumbag..
He also drove around in a new Mercedes or Porche but was always late paying his rent. You learn a lot about people when you own a storage business often more than you want to know.Sounds like a scumbag..
Resistor makes a valid point. The notion at hand is that an immigrant is a person who intends to become a permanent resident. As a citizen you have rights and responsibilities that an illegal alien does not. When you mentioned the verbiage 'illegal alien" I think we have to understand that our entire global dynamic has changed since the inception of the constitution, hence the discussion of isolationism. People are coming here now not for the sole purpose of evading an oppressive regime, economic prosperity and so on but to do us harm. I think that becoming more of an isolationist nation may dissuade this in that we can reduce access to our borders. I do have to agree in that the unalienable rights are given by God almighty. Smart man resistor.
Isolationism has never worked in the past and it is not likely to work in the future. Having said that I don't think we should be the world's police either nor do I think we should monetarily support or coerce other nations to be our allies. Fiscal and technological blockades have never worked either so why do we continue to use them? Free trade and tolerance will go a lot farther than embargoes in working together as allies with other nations. WE don't have to be "friends" with those countries that attack us but we should try to talk before we bomb them into oblivion.
Do you think that there can be some middle ground achieved? Isolationism is not particularly preferable but we have to find some way to secure our borders. Some middle ground should be found somewhere. How can we fairly and safely determine who can be dealt with and who cannot? Our government has seem to drop the ball in this area. As far as bombing
someone I was personally shocked by the massive destruction I saw when the bombing of Iraq was televised. Not pretty.
someone I was personally shocked by the massive destruction I saw when the bombing of Iraq was televised. Not pretty.
We have immigration laws that have worked in the past and those laws, if followed would still work today. We as a free people have every right to determine who is eligible to enter our borders for any purpose including to become citizens. We do not need to be isolationists in order to accomplish the safety of our borders and our citizens.
I will happily concede your point if we can do that. I do not question your reasoning I am just not certain that immigration laws that could work could be implemented. I also may have to rethink my position on isolationism as a fix. The only real correlation I found on the web was through wikileaks. I didn't read it. Perhaps I was educated. I found an article in the Los Angeles Times yesterday that stated that most Americans wanted restraint but not isolationism Americans favor not isolationism but restraint - latimes.com
I enjoy a good discussion and this has been one. Discussions don't require concessions as they are meant to explore all sides of a topic and I believe we have done our best. You have made me consider my views and yours so we did well.
blessings!
blessings!
This wholly and absolutely false. Furthermore, even if it were not true, who really gives a rat's a55??? I mean, really? PaulS, you once laid claim to believing in the Constitution. Surely you realize that the 16th Amendment which purportedly authorized an income tax was itself unconstitutionally passed. NOTHING can be more tyrannical than to steal a man's labor in the form of taxes.Undocumented workers do not pay income tax. Most do not even exist because they are paid in cash under the table. They live in a state paying for food and shelter (sometimes not paying for shelter) and the only taxes they pay are on the goods they purchase. As undocumented inhabitants they are not licensed to drive but some do own cars and drive them - without a license and without insurance.
There are some things that really irk me. One of them is people falsely claiming that people do not pay taxes that those who worked in the field KNOW is not true and then to pretend an interest on rebuilding America on the premise of an unconstitutional tax.
I agree that the 16th amendment is wholly unconstitutional. Even if it had been properly ratified it is in direct conflict with the constitution.
My point with undocumented workers is that they take from the system without putting in. Undocumented workers have no way in which to support the services that they receive while those of us who pay in are having to pay their share too.
My point with undocumented workers is that they take from the system without putting in. Undocumented workers have no way in which to support the services that they receive while those of us who pay in are having to pay their share too.
41 - 60 of 72 Posts
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