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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I see many talking about unity and helping one another and I think that’s great. But sometimes I think a reality check is in order. And maybe I am the one needing the reality check in some instances.

Lets be realistic, while things are good working with others and helping people is feasible. But I believe that once the SHTF things will degrade rapidly and even your friends and some family may become a threat. Those bugging in may be displaced without their supplies and become a well prepared threat to others. Those bugging out and either loosing their supplies or when the supplies run out are likely to become a threat as well. In my situation I believe in the fallowing.

1. Unless we have a preplanned meet up scheduled don’t come to my location. Because if it was not planned in advance you will likely not leave the property ever again. It does not matter that we are friends.

2. Even if I know you and we planned getting together expect me not to be overly trusting at first. Situations and attitudes change and I will not take chances I don’t have to.

3. Me and mine first, if you become a burden and your not family don’t be surprised if your asked to go away. I will not let a weak link take me and mine down. So always pull your own weight. I wont pull it for you as I have all I can carry!

4. I will go as far as I need to when it comes to me and mine surviving. Nothing personal but I will do what I feel I must!

I spoke with a friend the other day that plans to open her doors to anyone who shows up. I don’t see her surviving long term if she takes this approach.

So am I off the mark here? Opinions please!
 
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One thing I have noticed being self-employed through several recessions now is that difficult times seem to bring out the extremes in people. Folks that are grounded and honest, seem to become even more so when times are difficult. But folks that do not have that grounding, may be trustworthy when times are good but will turn in a heartbeat when the challenges come. The other possibility is they will panic and shut down completely.

In short, I think you are generally "on the mark".
 

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It's a quandary for me I know. My bug out can sustain a lot of people, and I'd like to have some trustworthy folks to help protect what it can produce and help in the production. Still, outside of extended family, I make no promises or offers to anyone. I feel like those who make it to my area have proven themselves a good deal and would be worthy an offer if that happened, and that I can keep anyone at an arms length doesn't hurt.
 

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My fellow Bamaboy,

No sir, I do not think you are off the mark and I cannot argue with your points at all. I have rarely second guessed my decisions in life and believe that as a Saved man, I will be able to sit at the right hand of My Lord MOSTLY proud of what I have done...but only after I prostrated myself in front of HIM begging for forgiveness of the horrible sins that I committed.

Maybe it is an age or maturity thing (for me it is). Before my late 40's and early 50's I was a different man, a much harder man. Today, I am different. I truly don't know exactly how I would act and I pray that I never find out...I may not like what I find.
 

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I've said this before and I'll continue

When the SHTF it will be the most unbelievable chance to lead people to the Lord than has existed .. for hundreds of years.

Now if you don't believe in Jesus and His sacrifice to save ALL men from their sins, then don't bother replying to this post

If you have any knowledge in Jesus then I will NOT quote you the myriad of scriptures that apply here.

I plan on "wasting" my substantial preps on helping my fellow man, not because it makes much sense but because that is what my Father commands me to do.

I have the blessing of living in a fairly rural area, so it could be that we will get through this together but IMO that isn't the point.

I see so many post about "here are my "thoughts' about a bug out bag" or here are my "opinions" about the best rifle and amount of clips"

IMO very few actually have those things done, not only in gear, guns, ammo and beans, but in resolution to carry their plans through.

IF YOU show up on my door step, unprepared, I am planning on working something out and providing aid to you, I'm sorry if that blows your mind but American's help, that is our covenant to the world, why is it not PC when the SHTF?

Oh, and if you think I am crazy, come to Montana for a vacation next year and learn why I think this way. It will probably blow your mind.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Well I will admit that I am guilty of being a hard person to some degree. I am my fathers son and he was as hard as they come. He was Army 18Z Special Forces Senior Sergeant, a warrior first and everything else second. The only promise he ever asked of me was that I take care of my family at all cost should things go bad. I made that promise and will always hold true to it.

All this said the topic at hand is not an easy one. To turn someone away knowing it may mean their death is a difficult thing. But to maintain opsech turning someone away would not be the worst of it. How do you send someone away when they are aware of your location and may share that info for as little as a meal.

While I do not think an open door policy will allow someone to survive in what may be the post SHTF world. I also believe that we all must consider and answer these questions for ourselves. When it comes to faith that is something each person must decide as well.
 

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Stop and think for one minute. What if it's you and yours that loose your prepping supplies. What if it's you and yours that's going to need that medical expertise to save a loved one? Wouldn't you want others to help you? Oops now what do I say to that. Of course you'd want others to be there in your time of need.
Are folks going to go hog wild and try and take everything others have. Sure there will be some of that. will there be folks that will kill to protect their families at all cost? Sure. But remember the Twilight Zone episode where the guy had a bunker and his friends wanted in. Turned out to be a false alarm. Do you need a reality check? yeah most of you do and I don't think 10% of you will do it honestly
 

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Man is by nature sinful and unclean. That has not changed. However Faith and a will to do what is right does change people. The soul has a way of over coming evil .
We have our group they are well ground in faith. We will do what is right. That does not mean we will foolishly allow others to just walk in.
Though out the history of man/women interchangeable term. There have been many that have done right no madder the cost to them. That will continue.
It we lose out humanity, and I am not talking the liberal definition of the word, then we gain nothing by merely surviving.
What profit a man if he loses his soul. Even many non believers can understand that .
 

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This has been a good thread primarily because the answers are not so simple and subject to variables of circumstance and degree. I see the sense in both extremes. The worst of it are going to be those who have nothing to offer or exchange with others. It also worries me that relief would go to highly populated places in the past, but not so confident that will be the case this time around.
I can't run a mission, but I can run a health/sciences center. I can't support anybody, but I can be a beneficial part of people supporting each other and hold my own. It's hard to send the homeless and hungry on to find other pastures, but makin' diesel out of zombies and marauders? Easy enough. Especially them ones that come with their own towel ahahaha!
But I think the real reality check here is not either extreme, but how we are going to have to think about and cope with it soon enough. Being compelled to either extreme for some reason and trying to navigate through that.
We are planning on good surveillance. To have a better take on someone a few hundred yards before they're approaching to decide whether it's "Hi", hide or horrid - depending on them before they see us.
Don't want to be naive, but don't want to be worse than we may have to either.
 

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History has shown that humans are at their best when times are at their worse. The people living in Europe during the world wars, America during the great depression....ect. I think some of us may, underestimate ourselves. As I have posted before, humans in general, are not like the lone bear, but we are like wolves, we are pack animals, are strength is in our numbers, I figure it's been that way as long as there have been humans.
Assuming a major SHTF thing, I foresee a period of time we are indeed on our own, pretty much everyone taking care of themselves, but as times goes on I see people in the most part banding together in small communities sharing the work, sharing the fruits of their labors, protecting not only themselves, but their brothers and sisters, I think it will be only human nature.
I also see people not turning their backs on the young weak old or sick, or otherwise unable to pull their weight, for that sick person you are wasting food on today, may save your life tomorrow when you become ill, and that young child will someday grow up and take care of you when you become old, as he/she had see you take of older people when you was able.
I think there will be good people and there will be bad, but I think the good people will far outnumber the ones set on doing evil. I think people will bring back law and order, and those caught doing wrong will be dealt with.
This is just how I see things playing out in a long term SHTF.
 

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So, if granny doesn't hold up her end you just chuck her out into the cold? How about little Johnny? How is that 6 yr old making himself worth the food he eats? Make him useful and throw him in the cook pot? Extremes, I know, and no one is advocating doing things like that, or at least I don't think they are. But one of the things that you have to consider is not just now, but tomorrow, and not what people can actually do, but what they know how to do. There is an old picture of my father as a boy behind a team of horses plowing a field. He couldn't do it now, but he sure could teach someone else how to do it.

It is my belief that the main element for long term survival is group or community survival. By group I mean a minimum of 7 or 8 people and maybe as large as 50. I think that the point that is being made is that everyone will have to pull their weight if able. By "if able" I mean that if my father should start going senile, I am not going to take him around back and shoot him in the head. I will try to take care of him the best that I can because that is what civilized people do. I think that if you think you are going to go it alone with your wife and kids, in the end you are going to lose. Should I want to take on a single family I would move to within a couple of hundred yards of the house at night, wait from a concealed location, and when the adults came out the door, shoot them before they knew I was there. If there was a group you could have people patrolling the area at night, and if someone shot at you during the day, they would have to worry about a bunch of other people firing back. A group would have a large talent/knowledge base to draw on, and a larger labor pool to share the work. BUT there would be no place for slackers, lay abouts, and people who seem to go out of their way to antagonize every one else. I can't emphasize enough that you will have to be very careful about who you let join, and quick to toss out anyone who just isn't worth putting up with.
 

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In a major catastrophy the only ones welcome here at The Ol' Homestead are immediate family members. No one else.
Not too many other people even know where we live. Not buddies down at the VFW, not co-workers, no one.
I have been around humanity long enough that I trust no one until they show me I should.
 

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While I agree that we need to welcome others into a group (if for now other reason than in numbers there is safety), I will not be blinded. I can't help but feel that too many young people today are ME oriented to the extreme. I would prefer to welcome a family rather than a single person. Families seem to have already learned to share and would hopefully fit in. Like a lot of others have stated here and in other posts, I pray I will never have to find out what happens.
 

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I've said this before and I'll continue

When the SHTF it will be the most unbelievable chance to lead people to the Lord than has existed .. for hundreds of years.

Now if you don't believe in Jesus and His sacrifice to save ALL men from their sins, then don't bother replying to this post

If you have any knowledge in Jesus then I will NOT quote you the myriad of scriptures that apply here.

I plan on "wasting" my substantial preps on helping my fellow man, not because it makes much sense but because that is what my Father commands me to do.

I have the blessing of living in a fairly rural area, so it could be that we will get through this together but IMO that isn't the point.

I see so many post about "here are my "thoughts' about a bug out bag" or here are my "opinions" about the best rifle and amount of clips"

IMO very few actually have those things done, not only in gear, guns, ammo and beans, but in resolution to carry their plans through.

IF YOU show up on my door step, unprepared, I am planning on working something out and providing aid to you, I'm sorry if that blows your mind but American's help, that is our covenant to the world, why is it not PC when the SHTF?

Oh, and if you think I am crazy, come to Montana for a vacation next year and learn why I think this way. It will probably blow your mind.
Well said sir!

God calls us to serve PERIOD! That my mean our death. So be it. At that point we who are believers will be in a far far better place.

Our mission is to bring others to Jesus by being the light of the world, My family and I intend on doing just that.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Well I don’t want a group larger than 3-4 and their families. And then my standards are high but I believe reasonable or well reasoned at least.

For example, I met a fellow last year that I thought would be a good asset to a group. So we set up a get together and went to a cabin for the weekend. And while my wife, myself and this guy worked our backsides off his lazy wife slept and his bratty kids complained. I had to let him know it wouldn’t work. He insisted he would pull the weight of his family. I insisted I wouldn’t if something happened to him.

I say all of this because hard decisions will need to be made. One asset who brings a lot of dead weight will not work out. And the question becomes if you have someone who is a problem then how do you send that person away? Do you trust that they wont be back with more people to try taking what you have? In my mind there is one other solution I don’t want to have to deploy, but maybe.

My job is to insure the survival of me and mine first. And I will not let anyone threaten that. I have enough weight to carry and I will not carry someone else’s. I have a friend who is fond of saying, if it happens I will come to your place. And like I told him it wouldn’t be a good idea. Even though we are friends if he shows up he wont like the welcome he receives.
 

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My problem with "taking in" strangers is that you can't just kick them out if they are too lazy to work for their share. Once in they have to stay in or die. You can't risk the well being of everyone in the group by allowing one individual to leave and possibly telling the wrong person your location and defenses. Anyone who had to leave would have to die. I am not ready (yet) to take someone in that I don't know and trust knowing that if they didn't work out I would have to kill them. It is better to turn them away than to have to kill them. They might die if I turn them away but that is a result of their own actions or inaction's. I do become an accomplice in their death by turning them away but I would not be wholly responsible for their death.

A lot of this thought process is with a background of having enough for my family but not a big excess. Is it the "Christian" thing to do? No, but then we are told to care for our families first and offer charity when we can. It will be a tough decision when it must be made and I won't know for sure what I will do until then.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
History has shown that humans are at their best when times are at their worse. The people living in Europe during the world wars, America during the great depression....ect. I think some of us may, underestimate ourselves. As I have posted before, humans in general, are not like the lone bear, but we are like wolves, we are pack animals, are strength is in our numbers, I figure it's been that way as long as there have been humans.
Assuming a major SHTF thing, I foresee a period of time we are indeed on our own, pretty much everyone taking care of themselves, but as times goes on I see people in the most part banding together in small communities sharing the work, sharing the fruits of their labors, protecting not only themselves, but their brothers and sisters, I think it will be only human nature.
I also see people not turning their backs on the young weak old or sick, or otherwise unable to pull their weight, for that sick person you are wasting food on today, may save your life tomorrow when you become ill, and that young child will someday grow up and take care of you when you become old, as he/she had see you take of older people when you was able.
I think there will be good people and there will be bad, but I think the good people will far outnumber the ones set on doing evil. I think people will bring back law and order, and those caught doing wrong will be dealt with.
This is just how I see things playing out in a long term SHTF.
Well I can agree with a lot of what you have said. But if that sick or weak person is taking food my family needs to survive I don't know that I can be so giving. And then ask yourself this, what do you do if someone in the group commit's a serious offence, lets say rapes a woman while out scouting for supplies? Then what, I think I know the answer I would have in this situation?
::redsnipe::
 

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We have made it clear. If SHTF, if it gets that bad we will lock down here. We have worked and planed for a long time.
25 families in our group and we can support more. We will have our boundaries. We will not be taken advantage of.
We will help others when we can.
It is through our strength we will be able to extend mercy, the weak have none to offer
It is through our hard work and foresight we will extend charity, again those without have nothing to share.
I do not worry about surviving, we will. I worry more about what surviving may do to us. We often look at that question.
The back round most of us have is a double edge sword. We come with skills to survive that have been tested.
That experience has also exposed what we are capable of . How far will we go ? will just getting by be enough?
Will the ego and drive that allows us to survive to over come be satisfied living a humble life. That drive is hard to shut down to control.
Without Faith in something great than our-self I fear it is impossible.
In most cases a man does not go bad all at one time, instead barriers are broken down, lines are crossed one at a time often small infraction.
Till one day there is no line anymore. This happens in war, it is prevented stopped short of going to far most of the time by leadership.
Knowing when to pull people back to give them a break . You might be amazed at how simple things can get a man back on track,back to right thinking if the warning signs are picked up on soon enough. If SHTF you are going to have to deal with these things ,like it or not.
Even the best of you will go to the edge what happens when you get there will be influence by how you address it now.
Don't just prepare the body, prepare the soul also.
So this may not make a bit of sense to some of you, others been there done that.
Think about it without our humanity, without love for others without a desire for true justice we are nothing anyway.
 
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