[Steve40th]

Just need to address the issue thay some people are evil.
People knew what this kid was thinking of doing, and they failed to do a damn thing about it.

 

[Kauboy]

So every time an incident happens, regardless of what it is, you can change the standard. Keep moving the goal post should work. After 21, you can aim for 25, then 30 and so on.

You keep saying the same thing... and I keep saying the same thing in response, and it's never addressed.

Tell me who will move the goal post.
Who will support prolonging the voting age to 25 and then 30?
Who will support prolonging the right to a jury of your peers to 25 and then 30? (that's right, children don't enjoy this right either)
Who will support prolonging the right to privacy to only those of 25 and then 30? (a child has no right to privacy if the parent/guardian decides it)

This idea is not confined to gun buying.
This idea is tied to every legal thing an adult can do.
Raising the age of majority is a poison pill idea that is directly tied to voting age, and thus will never be abused by the leftist crowd because they want the voting age to be as young as the population will accept.
21 is already a historic precedent. 25, 30, and onward are not, and never have been.

That's the 4th of 5th time I've repeated this, and never had anyone respond to it with any argument about why it wouldn't be true.
Wanna go around again? 😁

 

[inceptor]

Tell me who will move the goal post.
Who will support prolonging the voting age to 25 and then 30?

The same people who moved the goal post in the first place.

So when they find out that moving the age to 21 didn't work, what do you think will happen next? And when someone who is 25 or under does something horrific, won't they move the goal post again?

At least now I know you are for expanding the govt. They want more like you, I can assure you.

21 is already a historic precedent. 25, 30, and onward are not, and never have been.

Yet.

 

[inceptor]

And, besides those evil black rifles, Brandon is suggesting we do away with 9mm. I guess they are about as evil as the rifles. Get ready for the onslaught.

Biden turned heads Memorial Day when he claimed that the most popular caliber of gun in America was "high caliber" and that there was "no rational basis" for Americans to use the firearms for protecting themselves or even for "hunting."

The president also floated the suggestion of banning the guns outright.

GOP lawmakers torch Biden over suggested ban on 9mm pistols

Biden turned heads Memorial Day when he claimed there was "no rational basis" for Americans to use 9mm handguns, including for hunting or "protecting themselves."

www.foxnews.com

 

[Kauboy]

The same people who moved the goal post in the first place.
So when they find out that moving the age to 21 didn't work, what do you think will happen next? And when someone who is 25 or under does something horrific, won't they move the goal post again?
At least now I know you are for expanding the govt. They want more like you, I can assure you.

Which people, and who is "they"?
Seriously, be specific.
Who supports increasing the age of buying a gun AND voting?
There is no current political ideology or sect I can think of that wants both of these.
Also, as stated previously, this would be a repeal of law back to previous precedent. Not expansion.
I'm not sure why you keep accusing me of expanding government or wanting bans when I've proposed nothing of the sort. Don't misrepresent my position to make an easier target to attack. Rebut my specific position.

 

[inceptor]

Which people, and who is "they"?
Seriously, be specific.
Who supports increasing the age of buying a gun AND voting?

THEY will be the people who move the goal post you keep praising. THEY will also be the people who want to ban the 2nd Amendment. No, it hasn't started yet, but it will. Hide and watch.

As to the rest of it, I'm done. We are getting nowhere fast. Actually I'm surprised. I would have never thought you would be for expansion of liberty restrictions. And yes, upping the age limit would be another restriction.

But, just for the record, I think we have much larger issues we'll be facing by the fall.

 

[Kauboy]

THEY will be the people who move the goal post you keep praising. THEY will also be the people who want to ban the 2nd Amendment. No, it hasn't started yet, but it will. Hide and watch.

As to the rest of it, I'm done. We are getting nowhere fast. Actually I'm surprised. I would have never thought you would be for expansion of liberty restrictions. And yes, upping the age limit would be another restriction.

But, just for the record, I think we have much larger issues we'll be facing by the fall.

"They" don't exist.
The people who want the 2nd amendment gone will never compromise on voting age to get it. I am eternally confident in this.
It's a repeal, not an expansion. Seeing it any other way is an act of the imagination. I'm surprised you're not in favor of repealing bad law.
Nobody who currently enjoys the right would be restricted in any way. More imaginative thinking.

We clearly see this from two different perspectives. You presume I'm naïve to the reality of the situation and I presume you're not fully understanding it.
Perhaps this conversation would progress differently in person, but I don't think we're going to get anywhere else in text.
Thank you for the discussion just the same.

 

[Real Old Man]

Until one attains the age of majority, certain rights are simply not available. There is no "earning".
My proposal would not cause any loss of rights.
I specifically stated that any person between the ages of 18 and 20 at the time of the law's passing would still be a legal adult. A "grandfather clause", if you will, as is common in many laws.
They would lose nothing.
The 17 year old days away from their birthday, having never attained the age of majority, would still have the same set of rights they enjoy. Nothing is lost, but the full panoply of rights would be delayed for an additional 3 years until the age of majority was reached.
There may be an expectation of new rights upon their 18th birthday, which this would extinguish, but that is not an actual loss.
The only reason anyone could conclude that this equates to a "loss" of rights is a result of the poorly thought out decision to lower the age of majority in the first place. We should seek to fix bad law, should we not?
In reality, this would not actually be a new law. It would be a repeal, and reversion to previous law.
This was precedent at our nation's founding.

One thing you tend to forget. All human have the God given right to keep and bear arms. Last I looked there's nothing in the constitution that says no Rights until you are 21 or 18. So you are depriving all not 21 of their rights. Next it will be self incrimination or right to assemble or a speedy trial.

Where would it end

 

[inceptor]

@Kauboy in 6 months or less, I do believe you are going to see things that you thought were never possible. You're a prepper, I sure hope you're ready.

Topics are really starting to heat up. Just hide and watch.

 

[inceptor]

And here is a taste of things to come.

14 mass shootings tallied in US over Memorial Day weekend, data shows

The spate of shootings over the Memorial Day Weekend broke out amid calls for gun control following the school massacre in Uvalde, Texas.

nypost.com

Ya gotta love the last paragraph in the article

“Yeah, summer is coming and on July Fourth weekend, we’ll probably see many [mass shootings], but I don’t see this as a harbinger of worse things to come,” Fox said. “The one thing that does concern me is we’ve seen a surge in gun purchasing. And it’s hard to commit a mass shooting without a gun.”

 

[Camel923]

first accept you can not stop all evil. Second is to start As a silent majority to stop being silent and grow a back bone. Instilling moral values and real education will be a dog fight. The i biggest thing I can point to is the year I was born 1962 there were zero school shootings but that is the year the stench on the bench threw God out of the schools with their enlightened ruling. Simple things like stoping using new teaching techniques like common core. That is a school board dog fight. It fails to provide a real life education just follow orders right or wrong and your rewarded. Start teaching the Bible. Besides religion there is historical context with it. It is the foundation of our culture and laws. Hey they try and force kids to be Muslims for a week so not allowing something that founded this country is hogwash . This will be a political fight locally to nationally. Watch the wacko left go nuts. Stoping murder? How about driving home the message though shalt not kill? Stop expanding childhood. Condense it. Require maturity and responsibility. Stop making excuses and exceptions. Refuse to do basic math or read and write competently? No diploma. Consequences for poor behavior or just being lazy. Allow kids to start making money at an early age. Think about your first job for money. When did you start cutting grass? Stop mandating the lazy mind set.. Not a complete plan but ideas to consider. We have to stop allowing Libtards from mandating crazy behavior and mental illness as normal mainstream thought. This kid could not look at himself and figure out what he was. The elevator is not going up to the top. I heard a rumor he was on psych meds. It seems many of these killers are on such medications. A legitimate review of these meds should at the minimum be conducted and not by the pharmaceutical companies or those working on these companies behalf. Compulsory military service? Be a screw up and tour Leavenworth.

 

[Kauboy]

One thing you tend to forget. All human have the God given right to keep and bear arms. Last I looked there's nothing in the constitution that says no Rights until you are 21 or 18. So you are depriving all not 21 of their rights. Next it will be self incrimination or right to assemble or a speedy trial.

Where would it end

Nowhere, at all, did I claim anything about children having "no rights". Literally nowhere.
Either you've not read the thread, or you believe 10 year olds have a right to be tried by a jury of their peers (other 10 year olds).
Seriously, go read the thread. This was covered Children do not enjoy all rights until they reach the age of majority, but they do enjoy some.
I know people like to think that all humans, regardless of age, have all rights, but it's literally NEVER been true. Children have never EVER been entrusted with all rights the way an adult is.
All humans have basic human rights. But the full panoply of rights is not possible for children. They don't have a right to marry. They don't have a right to self-govern. They don't have a right to bodily autonomy. They don't have a right to privacy. They don't even have a right to actual freedom, as they have always been considered "owned" by their parents until adulthood or winning a court case to legally separate them.

You need to consider the reality of our laws and history before basing your position on bad logic.

 

[Mr.penguin]

Raising the legal age to buy a gun doesn't stop another person from buying the gun legally and giving access to that gun to a minor. Also we need to address the root of the problem: mental health and white supremacy in this country. If we don't do that we could ban all guns and people will just use knifes and crossbows or bombs. You can't ban Gasoline or chemical fertilizer can you?

 

[Steve40th]

Changing the age to buy alcohol didnt stop many from buying. Illegal drugs, same thing.
Watch what happens in Canada, with Trudeau stopping weapons purchases' etc..
And on a side note, nobody is prepared enough to go against our Government..

 

[Kauboy]

Raising the legal age to buy a gun doesn't stop another person from buying the gun legally and giving access to that gun to a minor. Also we need to address the root of the problem: mental health and white supremacy in this country. If we don't do that we could ban all guns and people will just use knifes and crossbows or bombs. You can't ban Gasoline or chemical fertilizer can you?

My proposal is not to simply raise the age to buy a gun, but raise the age of majority back to what it was at our nation's founding.
I never claimed it would stop people from getting guns. But it would remove the legal route for children to buy them.
White supremacy has been proven to not be a major problem nor factor in these attacks.

 

[Kauboy]

Changing the age to buy alcohol didnt stop many from buying. Illegal drugs, same thing.
Watch what happens in Canada, with Trudeau stopping weapons purchases' etc..
And on a side note, nobody is prepared enough to go against our Government..

There's no legal age for illegal drugs. Bad example.
Your last comment sounds a lot like Biden, and it's false. The Taliban proved that.

 

[Steve40th]

My point is criminals will be criminals. Laws that restrict us only restrict us..
Taliban didnt win the battles, but they won the political war..

There's no legal age for illegal drugs. Bad example.
Your last comment sounds a lot like Biden, and it's false. The Taliban proved that.

 

[Kauboy]

My point is criminals will be criminals. Laws that restrict us only restrict us..
Taliban didnt win the battles, but they won the political war..

How are we restricted by the age of majority being returned to what it was at our founding?
A law that impacts point-of-sale cannot simply be broken.
Could the 18yo child have purchased his rifle the way he did if the age of majority was 21? No, and he would have no say in it or a chance to break that law and buy it from the FFL dealer anyways.
He could have still found a way to carry out an attack. But it would not have been with a legally purchased firearm.


My proposal is intended to target a broad point. Children should not be entrusted with rights only fit for adults, such as marriage, voting, self-governance, bodily autonomy, guns, and others.
My proposal would reset the age of majority back to what was once considered a more appropriate age for these rights to be exercised.
But, it looks like the dimwitted dems are just going to push for moving the age of buying a rifle to 21. (H.R. 3015)
So we are again facing the same division where an "adult" (18yo child) cannot exercise their constitutional right to keep and bear arms.
They are targeting all semiautomatic firearms that can accept more than 5 rounds.
It's just one of a slew of new bills proposed: 5/31/22 ☀ Punchbowl News AM, - Punchbowl News

I hope this brings our discussion here into focus.
THIS is what a restriction of rights looks like.

 

[Real Old Man]

Your basic premise is flawed. The constitution says nothing about purchasing a gun. The natural right is to keep and bear arms. This has no age limit on it. Just like free speech and self incrimination. As for selling a firearm there is nothing to prevent me as a seller or giver to say no to selling or giving you one.

You've got the two concepts mixed.

And don't tell me to go and read all of your posts it's very clear that on this issue you are an appeaser who hopes his idea will postpone the seizure of his firearms by the ultra ◀

 

[Kauboy]

Your basic premise is flawed. The constitution says nothing about purchasing a gun. The natural right is to keep and bear arms. This has no age limit on it. Just like free speech and self incrimination. As for selling a firearm there is nothing to prevent me as a seller or giver to say no to selling or giving you one.

You've got the two concepts mixed.

And don't tell me to go and read all of your posts it's very clear that on this issue you are an appeaser who hopes his idea will postpone the seizure of his firearms by the ultra ◀

Do children have a right to a trial by a jury of their peers?
Do children have a right to privacy?
Children do not enjoy all rights. Period.
This also includes a right to keep and bear arms.

I am not the one working with a flawed premise here.
Do any amount of research on rights of children. You're fabricating an argument from whole cloth that has no legal or historical precedence.
All of this was covered, with support, already. But you don't want me to ask you to do your due diligence before continuing the conversation, so I guess I'll just imply that you should...
Here's one post to reference: Raising the legal age of adulthood. Let's discuss.