Prepper Forum / Survivalist Forum banner

1 - 20 of 42 Posts

·
Mod Squad
Joined
·
2,260 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
More cops out of control...

 

·
Banned
Joined
·
2,112 Posts
I have seen this video before, as well as the one where this guy plays crying victim to the news (for a payday) and I have to say, I would have done the very same thing. And I'll break it down.

This guy calls the police and reports that he has been "Forcibly Removed" from the place he was living. My question is why?

He reports that he was punched in the face. Again, why? He claims being held down (could have been) and punched. The injury was minor.

He reports that his belongings were placed on the porch. Indicates he probably doesn't have a lot of stuff and perhaps he is "couch surfing".

As a cop, I start putting these pieces together, keeping in mind there are 2 sides to every story.

Then, as I'm talking to you, you start getting verbally aggressive (a precursor to possible physically aggressive behavior), dropping "F-Bombs" (Disorderly Conduct/Fighting Words - Another precursor).

As I step closer to you, you posture (puffing out your chest/clenching your fists) and then ask "Do you know who you're talking to? I'm a United States Soldier and you better recognize." At this point, in my mind, a physical attack by YOU is imminent. I would however have given him the opportunity (warning) to settle down a little bit and have a reasonable conversation so I could help him. After that, his actions would have determined the course.

With that aside, DONE DEAL. And you hit the ground. They were much nicer than I would have been, as it would have been a straight trip to jail, not a mere documentation of my contact.

Logically speaking, we all know why he was kicked out of the apartment by his buddies. He's an a**hole. I can guarantee they got sick of his crap, told him to leave, he postured up on them, got popped in the lip, and tossed out with his stuff following behind him. This tells me that he is no longer in the military and doesn't have a pot to p*ss in or a window to throw it out of.

Which is why he pursues the whole whiney-peehole facade with the news, crying, I was a victim, blah blah blah. He wants a payday because, again, he has nothing. His attitude during contact with the cops speaks volume as to why this is.

With that said, where they went wrong, in my personal opinion, was the whole "Oh yeah? Well you're messing with a United States Marine." So what? You just made it personal and made the implication that because you're a Marine, you will simply impose your will on others and they will submit to you. First mistake.

Making him "tap out" by jamming your knee in his chest? A little much, but I won't necessarily disagree with doing it. What I disagree with is using that technique to obtain compliance, in conjunction with the "trash talking" at the same time. Second Mistake.

If he had given commands to comply and not resist while doing it, then it's a different matter. But this isn't MMA. Basic rule is if you can't breath, you can't fight. I do not subscribe to using techniques that purposely deprive someone of oxygen or the ability to breath normally in order to gain compliance, unless I'm on the losing end of a vicious fight. Then anything goes.

I wouldn't necessarily say they were out of control, but there were definitely some issues that bring unnecessary and preventable concerns from the community. Cops just shouldn't behave this way over citizen behavior that is fairly routine during police contacts. But yes, I would have taken him to the ground also, but skipped the macho performance. Down, cuffed, you're under arrest, here are you rights, off we go.
 

·
Mod Squad
Joined
·
2,260 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I'll break it down too...

This guy calls the police and reports that he has been "Forcibly Removed" from the place he was living. My question is why?
We don't know why. The cop never bothered to ask him, or, for that matter, anyone else.

He reports that he was punched in the face. Again, why? He claims being held down (could have been) and punched. The injury was minor.
Again, they never bothered to ask why. Are you suggesting it's OK to punch people in the face as long as you only inflict "minor" injuries?

He reports that his belongings were placed on the porch. Indicates he probably doesn't have a lot of stuff and perhaps he is "couch surfing".
Are you suggesting that civil rights only belong to those who have lots of stuff? Does the US Constitution and the Bill of Rights only protect rich people?

As a cop, I start putting these pieces together, keeping in mind there are 2 sides to every story.
These cops didn't seem that interested in hearing 2 sides of any story. They didn't seem that interested in hearing the story at all. They did seem interested in proving they are hard guys who don't take any shit from civilians.

Then, as I'm talking to you, you start getting verbally aggressive (a precursor to possible physically aggressive behavior), dropping "F-Bombs" (Disorderly Conduct/Fighting Words - Another precursor).
Bad thoughts are also "a precursor to possible physically aggressive behavior." Maybe we should monitor thoughts and beat anyone who doesn't toe the party line? Police have the right to protect themselves from ACTUAL physically aggressive behavior. Police have no right to step up in someone's face and escalate the situation until they feel justified in smacking that person in the head and putting them in a pain hold until they respect the cop's authority.

As I step closer to you, you posture (puffing out your chest/clenching your fists) and then ask "Do you know who you're talking to? I'm a United States Soldier and you better recognize." At this point, in my mind, a physical attack by YOU is imminent. I would however have given him the opportunity (warning) to settle down a little bit and have a reasonable conversation so I could help him. After that, his actions would have determined the course.
So the cops can posture by stepping in your face, but you can't puff up yer chest? LOL Really? The guy was a moron, no doubt about it. A reasonable response from the 2 police officers would be to keep their distance and de-escalate the situation, not do everything they can to push it to the next level. As far as I can see, all 3 of them are pretty much morons.

With that aside, DONE DEAL. And you hit the ground. They were much nicer than I would have been, as it would have been a straight trip to jail, not a mere documentation of my contact.
Thanks for the warning.

Logically speaking, we all know why he was kicked out of the apartment by his buddies. He's an a**hole. I can guarantee they got sick of his crap, told him to leave, he postured up on them, got popped in the lip, and tossed out with his stuff following behind him. This tells me that he is no longer in the military and doesn't have a pot to p*ss in or a window to throw it out of.
Logically speaking, I have no idea why he was kicked out. Logically speaking, neither do you.

As I said, I do think this guy is a moron. That's not the way to talk to the police. He was a little out of line, which is more or less understandable after his "ordeal." But the cops are supposed to be the ones with cool heads. It's their job to deal with assholes all day, and you know what? Nobody put a gun to their head to make them join the force. If they can't do the job, they shouldn't have the job.

These cops were out of line... period.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,068 Posts
Again, they never bothered to ask why. Are you suggesting it's OK to punch people in the face as long as you only inflict "minor" injuries?
If they are hippies, it is not only okay, it is required! :p
 

·
Mod Squad
Joined
·
2,260 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Yes Inor, peace loving environmentalists must be crushed under the hobnailed jackboots of the New World Order. Anyone who can recite even a single line from Cheech & Chong is an obvious danger to the American way of life and should be dealt with!

Dave's not here man.

:p
 
  • Like
Reactions: Inor

·
Banned
Joined
·
2,112 Posts
You're missing the point Doodle. They never got to the story because soldier boy decided to puff out his chest, get confrontational and direct the whole thing away from why they were there in the first place. It is not okay to hit someone in the mouth. But if his behavior toward these officers was any indication of his behavior toward the people IN the apartment, I can see why that might have happened. You don't call for help and then start crap with the people who show up to help you. The kid escalated the entire situation as soon as they made contact. And I doubt that we saw the rest of the Body Cam footage, so there is no way to know what happened after the paramedics showed up. So we don't know if the room mates were arrested for the assault, or anything else. But in that one piece, yeah, I would have put him on the ground.

You'll also note that I did say I disagreed with some of what they did. I'm sorry that you don't like my assessment of the situation, but I have been there. Countless times. And I'm not about to let some jackass decide that somehow whatever his issue is, it's my fault, then take it out on me. I've said it before; Treat everyone with respect. Treat an A-hole like an A-hole. All he needed to do was say "Thanks for showing up, here's the situation" and let them sort it out.

I mean honestly Doodle, if I approached you on the street, was rude to you from the onset, then puffed out my chest at you, clinched my fists and told you "You don't know who you're dealing with, you better recognize"; just what exactly would you be inclined to do? With the knowledge that you have a complete inability to retreat? You see, police can't just walk away. They have a duty to act. An "Inability to Retreat". What would you do? And let's forget the badge. Just two men with one being confrontational and aggressive.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,308 Posts
I have defused people who started out far more aggressive than this guy. Do I have a 100% success rate? Nope. However I gave it a try so long as I didn't endanger myself or others. If you started to get physically aggressive you went to the deck. This doesn't mean you landed one on me it means you attempted. In this instance I didn't see any adults present. One of those acting out hit the ground. Will the other one learn stay tuned for the next video.
 

·
Mod Squad
Joined
·
2,260 Posts
Discussion Starter · #8 ·
I mean honestly Doodle, if I approached you on the street, was rude to you from the onset, then puffed out my chest at you, clinched my fists and told you "You don't know who you're dealing with, you better recognize"; just what exactly would you be inclined to do? With the knowledge that you have a complete inability to retreat? You see, police can't just walk away. They have a duty to act. An "Inability to Retreat". What would you do? And let's forget the badge. Just two men with one being confrontational and aggressive.
I would slap you upside the head, then jump on you and beat you until I got tired. This is why I will never become a LEO.

I'm not anti-police. I recognize they do a thankless, dangerous job for a bunch of people who mostly resent them. I don't have the mindset to be a cop because I would probably just shoot too many fools. But, you see, that's the difference. Yeah, cops are human, I get that. The job wears you down, I get that too. Still... excess is excess.

And yeah, I saw you said they made mistakes and I agree, so did mister pufferchest. The "soldier" guy paid for his mistake, the cops get away with it. Sorry, but there is something wrong there. It's a tough job, hats off to those who do it with honor. There is nothing wrong with expecting accountability from the police.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
2,112 Posts
I would slap you upside the head, then jump on you and beat you until I got tired. This is why I will never become a LEO.

I'm not anti-police. I recognize they do a thankless, dangerous job for a bunch of people who mostly resent them. I don't have the mindset to be a cop because I would probably just shoot too many fools. But, you see, that's the difference. Yeah, cops are human, I get that. The job wears you down, I get that too. Still... excess is excess.

And yeah, I saw you said they made mistakes and I agree, so did mister pufferchest. The "soldier" guy paid for his mistake, the cops get away with it. Sorry, but there is something wrong there. It's a tough job, hats off to those who do it with honor. There is nothing wrong with expecting accountability from the police.
You are absolutely correct; There is NOTHING wrong with expecting accountability from the Police.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,820 Posts
I can't get past the fact that the Cop was the one who did indeed step up and get in the guy's face, then seemed to get pissed the guy didn't cower in deferance to his obvious authority.

I was one of the lucky senior NCO's at an installation who got 6 weeks of training and the pleasure of riding around with DOD cops once or twice a month for the simple reason the DOD cops had developed a habit of just this type of behavior when interacting with certain active duty members. We even got a Federal badge under Article 10, woohoo.

The problem was the DOD guys developed a habit of antagonizing certain people while hiding behind their badge and the knowledge that if the member reacted in any way it could be a career ender. They simply got off on bullying men who could kill them in a second and not lose a minute of sleep over having done so, which was a real concern as the reports piled up with collaborating witness statements. Turns out a DOD cop is easier and cheaper to replace, lol.

EDIT: I should add not all the DOD guys were douche bags, but there way too many who were in that instance.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
904 Posts
I don't have any problem with the way the situation was handled. The "victim" initiated the confrontation, no excessive force was used and the matter was resolved amicably.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
110 Posts
The cop was a dick - period. He wasn't the only one, but he was on duty and supposed to act as a professional.
LEOs interact with people a million times a day. I'm guessing 99.9% of their interactions are professional.
This was not one of those times. When the punk decided to get an attitude, the officer should have been a professional - he wasn't.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
2,112 Posts
The cop was a dick - period. He wasn't the only one, but he was on duty and supposed to act as a professional.
LEOs interact with people a million times a day. I'm guessing 99.9% of their interactions are professional.
This was not one of those times. When the punk decided to get an attitude, the officer should have been a professional - he wasn't.
It wasn't just the attitude. It was the posturing and fist clenching that went with it. Makes for a whole different ball game.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
96 Posts
This is why I always respect the authority of the badge. I see faults on both sides. The man was already in the wrong mindset of I'm pissed so fix it! The cop was excessive but IMO it probably wouldn't have gone down like that if his authority was respected from the get go. If you act like a threat, look like a threat, you'll probably be treated as such.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,086 Posts
The cop in this situation escalated the situation when he moved closer to a man who was already upset. If he hadn't stepped forward facing the issue it would have been easier to diffuse the situation. He could have simply told the guy to sit down while he checked on the story the other guys had. Then armed with both sides of the story he could have given some options to whomever was more wrong. He could have cited the ones who hit the other guy (or used it as a threat) and told the guy with the split lip that he had no choice but to get his gear and clear out. It wouldn't have put the cop in the position of a "jack booted thug" and the whole situation might have been resolved.

When in a confrontation the last thing a cop should do is escalate the situation. The get classes on that sort of thing. (or used to)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,417 Posts
Wouldn't it be great if everyone could review their actions on video and get a "Do Over?" Well that isn't how it works and few professions get put under the microscope like law enforcement. It’s easy to play the Monday morning quarterback and pick apart the officers but the fact of the matter is officers have seconds to make decisions. I’m sure the officer in the video wishes he had handled it differently. It is different with every officer when it comes to dealing with the public, some are naturals and others, well it may take some life lessons and experience to get it right. It is also easy to wrapped up and emotional about a video because it is a brief snapshot with very little information.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,368 Posts
Just another punk kid that thinks he should be the center of the world.

If he indeed need police help it seems to me he would have been more interested in getting that help than antagonizing the police. After that was resolved then would have been the time to question the delay.

My guess his situation was put down as a non-emergency since he was not in dander and the suspects were not fleeing.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
2,112 Posts
Wouldn't it be great if everyone could review their actions on video and get a "Do Over?" Well that isn't how it works and few professions get put under the microscope like law enforcement. It's easy to play the Monday morning quarterback and pick apart the officers but the fact of the matter is officers have seconds to make decisions. I'm sure the officer in the video wishes he had handled it differently. It is different with every officer when it comes to dealing with the public, some are naturals and others, well it may take some life lessons and experience to get it right. It is also easy to wrapped up and emotional about a video because it is a brief snapshot with very little information.
I think that falls along the lines of the theory that the defendant had 2.013 seconds to make a life or death decision and the prosecution had 18 months to pick through that decision with a fine toothed comb.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Meangreen

·
Administrator
Joined
·
15,001 Posts
I have never been in any more trouble than traffic violations. Never been cuffed, never sat in a cop car. BUT, whenever I was required to interact with law enforcement I simply treated them with courtesy. And they were courteous in return. Basic stuff, folks.
 

·
Mod Squad
Joined
·
2,260 Posts
Discussion Starter · #20 ·
I have never been in any more trouble than traffic violations. Never been cuffed, never sat in a cop car. BUT, whenever I was required to interact with law enforcement I simply treated them with courtesy. And they were courteous in return. Basic stuff, folks.
Same here. I treat cops with courtesy because I think they deserve courtesy. They do a dangerous, thankless job that needs doing, and the last thing I'm gonna do is make their job harder.

But I do not and will never treat them with courtesy because I am afraid they will beat me if I don't. If it ever gets to the point where I feel that way, then they don't deserve my courtesy and will get none. If they beat me to death over it, so be it. At least I'll go down fighting for what I see as right, and I won't die in fear of anyone or anything.
 
1 - 20 of 42 Posts
Top