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Discussion Starter #1
I think that there are a lot of people here that think they are going to hold up in their current houses in the cities. Lets take a long look at this sceneario shall we.

Food, sure of course you can figure out creative ways to store a large amount of food

Water, now, this is one of the major problems you will have. Where are you going to get good clean water on a continuous basis ? The cities would very likely not be pumping water to your ready to drink faucet any longer.

Even if you can store 1,000 gallons, how long would that really last you and yours ? Not long even on a good day. I have a 1500 gal water tank that I fill up every few weeks and that is with out doing any laundry. Better give this a lot of thought.

Sanitation. When your toilets no long flush as the water is not coming from the city any longer, what are you going to do ? Throw it out the window like back in the days in Europe ? They got the plague remember. Not to mention the stench that will come up right away. How many different holes can you dig in your back yard to bury all that bad stuff ? And is this the same yard where you may be trying to grow vegies ? Think about it a lot more.

Now, if you have worked out all those immediate problems, that leaves you with the grab and go bunch. Keep in mind, that there will be hundreds if not thousands of people that have never worked a day in their lives and they will go ballistic when their food stamps run out or don't work. All they know is how to take. You would be the takee

Wouldn't it be far more prudant to start working a plan now to get out of dodge fast and even faster ? I am an old man, and I don't believe that very many normal people , even though fairly well prepped would last very long under those circumstances. Do you ?
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Burbs after the shtf. OK, somenhow you managed to store a trillion gallons of water, and a wharehouse of food. So, all day you hunker down in your house and hope your not discovered by the grab and go bunches that are bound to be out there. How do you cook your food without anyone smelling it ? Hungry people will smell your food a mile away or even further. You will be found and thats when your problems will really begin. Your house is NOT bullet proof, nor fire proof. If they can't get at your supplies, I am willing to be there will be someone who will just burn you out because they are mad ! Opps, you lose !
 

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Great point about cooking. If you are stuck, I suppose you could live off the items that don't have to be cooked first. Maybe by the time that is gone the die off has taken out a lot of would be looters. A solar oven wouldn't give off any smoke. Do what you can to survive.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
I go to visit my friends every couple of weeks, and she is usually cooking something or other on her solar cooker. Don't believe for one minute that I can't smell the roast or whatever she is cooking from a long way off when the wind is right. Nothing to do with smoke, all in the nose.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
OK, so you live in the city, as it affords you a much better paycheck. Of course, there is ton's more crime, traffic, noise, and idiots to contend with. BUT, what if you filled your gas tank, and headed out of the city, until it got down to about 1/4 of a tank ? Would that put you in a more comfortable zone ? If the answer is yes, then perhaps, you could look around for a small plot of unimproved land to buy. Now at least you have a "target" to head for should the need arise. Add a shipping container and you have a place to store things. Hey, in an emergency, you also have shelter , which is far better then sleeping under a tree in a blinding snow or rain storm. Of course the quiet and lack of crime may scare you. And believe me when I say this, the darkness is something you won't believe either upon getting out of the city and into a no lights area.

But, then again, you can probably store a hundred gallons of water or so in your city dwelling, along with a few weeks of food. But, wait, there would be no way to really have a vegi garden large enough to sustain you for any real length of time. Also, there would be no meat other then what you still may have left in your pantry in cans. All the cats and dogs will be eaten up in the first couple of weeks or so. But then again, there are always the large rats that have managed to escape the hungry desperate people. I wonder if they taste good ?

Still want to try and hold up in the city ? The only thing worse, is if your in some kind of high rise apt building, where you couldn't even do a rain water catchment system. Movement around the city you say ? When, after all the gangs have died off. I don't think they will be part of the large die off, but rather the last remaining people around still able to move and steal. After all the gangs rely on numbers and force to exist and they would only be stronger when there were no leo's to controll them. Does the city still look good to you ?

Myself and thousand's more like me, living here in rural rural america, will have vegies, fresh meat, chickens and eggs, water, a means of sewage disposal that is safe, and even solar to watch a movie on my dvd plaver via tv now and then. Any city people daring to venture out this far, are either lost or crazy and will be delt with in very short order.

I see NO plus's for remaining in the city, while lots of postive things here in the country.

I have lots of solar, a wind generator, 3 back up gennies for redundance, food stored, vege garden , small but laid out for future needs, out buildings that I can convert to chicken houses in a day. Water collection system and the means to store it. Neighbors within a mile or so , I can talk to via cb radio and to help should the need arise and visa versa. Positive's all around me. Lots of trees for firewood. Still gotta get a wood stove. Hopefully come spring.

Now, you list any positive 's you can think of. Go for it.
 

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..I suppose you could live off the items that don't have to be cooked first..
Yeah, in all my hiking and cycle-camping trips I live quite happily on cold food, beats me why many people think hot food is essential!
I've never, ever built a fire at my campsites, why the hell should I want to? If we're cold, we can simply put up the tent and get in our warm snug sleeping bag.
In a survival situation a fire at night would attract gangs from miles around, and in daylight the smoke would reveal our position. Cooking smells too would draw hungry gangs and critters, so a good rule would be to only cook or start a fire if we HAVE to, for example if whatever food we've got can't be eaten cold or raw, or if we need a fire to dry out wet clothes.
In short, don't advertise our presence needlessly..:)

 

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Discussion Starter #9
Mre's for instance can be heated on your manifold, or over here in Arizona, just lay it on the dashboard, and it will get hot. You could make a 6" deep box out of wood, with a raisable lid made from a piece of glass, and heat a lot of things inside of that. Hot dogs and mre's come to mind
 

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Mre's for instance can be heated on your manifold, or over here in Arizona, just lay it on the dashboard, and it will get hot. You could make a 6" deep box out of wood, with a raisable lid made from a piece of glass, and heat a lot of things inside of that. Hot dogs and mre's come to mind
Yeah if you must have hot food there are ways around leaving a plume of smoke that gives away your position.
I just noticed this smoke across the river from my window 10 mins ago and took this pic. If I was starving I'd make a beeline for it to see what's cooking..:)
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Lucky Jim, that is my point exactly. You can not hide the fact that your cooking something. Either the smoke or the smell of cooking food will give you away. So how else can you prepare for this ?
 

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Lucky Jim, that is my point exactly. You can not hide the fact that your cooking something. Either the smoke or the smell of cooking food will give you away. So how else can you prepare for this ?
Here in the city with the gas and electricity gone we'd have to find a high-walled courtyard or well-shielded built-up area somewhere to light a cooking fire at night where the gangs hopefully wouldn't see the smoke and fire, and hopefully we'd be done before they could home in on our cooking smells.
Alternatively we could cook safely at home on a small camping stove day or night, and again hopefully be done before they can track down our cooking smells.
A third option would be to live on cold food that needs no cooking. On all my camping trips i've always happily lived on cold food and it saves me the bother of having to carry a camping stove or light campfires..:)
In the country I should imagine the same would apply?
 

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Hi,
I answered you on my water ????
I see you must be on water haul so how will you remedy that?? I agree big city is not the place to be in spite of what Ragnar Benson's book says. I had bought that book hoping it could give some useful tips for the "suburban Prepper". Even though I am out off a dirt road the lots are all 2.5 acres. I expect my under prepared neighbors to be the biggest threat. Then come the "lines of drift". I feel the need to be further removed but unfortunately have to hunker down for awhile longer....
 

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yes I think learn to eat right out of the can..LOL
Even if no smoke there is that scent of food...sure to bring the hoards flooding in.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
It would be a problem. Think about it. Your out hiking etc. and from nowhere, you smell fish or whatever cooking. Your nose tells your stomach how hungry you are, and you walk into the wind and presto, the cooking smells !

Jim, you have a completely different set of problems over there where you are then we have here. But that part would be about the same I think.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Kharakterc Yes , I do haul water. But I get it from my best friend, who is only about 1-2 miles away. His solar is about the same size as mine, and he has already ran his well a couple of times to make sure it works fine. Actually, he has a second well, which only needs a genie connected to it to pull water out. Between my 3 gennies and his 5 we are set in that dept. As far as your 2-1/2 acres, it is still better then living in the middle of the city with all the uglies around.
 

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..I do haul water. But I get it from my best friend, who is only about 1-2 miles away. His solar is about the same size as mine, and he has already ran his well a couple of times to make sure it works fine. Actually, he has a second well, which only needs a genie connected to it to pull water out..
Hmm, you have to rely on somebody else for water. I don't think I'd like to rely on anybody else to keep me alive..;)
You better hope he don't fall out with you, or that the well doesn't run dry, or bad guys don't poison it or they take over his place.
If I had to move out of the city I think I'd try to locate myself near water-

 

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Darned skippy.

Springs are within a few minutes from the house. Gotta have water.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Watr. Well, here in N,E. Arizona , an average well is about 20,000.00 and up . We are about 340' down to our aquafir , but the water is good. As far as having a falling ou with my friend, we have been friends since I built his house about 15 years ago now. I have a few other neighbors about the same distance with wells also,. where I can get water. There are also some long abandoned properties around here which have wells also. Should the need arise, they would become mine.
 

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nadja, I have read a lot of your post and I will say you are someone I would really like to get to know, and I know this is not possible do to me be in chicago. But you are well prepared. I hate living in the city just because of this reason. But like you said better pay, more jobs. At the moment that seem to be worthless for me because I can't seem to find work, even with all the skills I possess. One day I would love to live in the middle of nowhere and be able to sustain a living. I have a lot of great ideas and even more skills but without the money I am unable to use them or put them to use for that matter..
 
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