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NOAA Radiosonde Data Shows No Warming For 58 Years
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So, yeah, that explains why the glaciers I played on when I was a kid are melted in Glacier National Park? I'm not 207 years old.
Anybody who visited Glacier in the early 70's and goes there today who says there is no warming is an idiot or a liar.
Anybody who visited Glacier in the early 70's and goes there today who says there is no warming is an idiot or a liar.
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Of course there is warming and cooling cycles. It is just that man is not a big enough influence to affect the cycles to any large degree.
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I never said it was man made, I just said that the glaciers are melting away. Those glaciers are from the last ice age.
The LINK you have provided, however, says that the planet is not warming. That's nonsense. Go to Glacier National Park and use your Mark 1 Eyeballs. Get 30-50 year old pictures, and stand in the spots they were taken. Don't trust me, trust your own eyes.
Statistics are fine and all, but the eyeball test... that's where the rubber hits the road.
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How do you account for the added ice in the Antarctic? Natural cycles.
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If I put an ice cube out during the summer it melts. If I put an ice cube out in the winter it sublimates. If I understand your logic, the US should still be completely covered by glaciers? I know that's not what you are trying to say, so please explain so I can understand your point of view. After all ice melts when it is not being replaced by the type of snowfalls and temperatures that existed 50,000 years ago.
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It all in Gods hands if he wants ice he makes it ,, if he wants heat he makes it ,, yes man has polluted the air and it may have cause some warming ,, but we all know we can not control the weather , ice , heat , wind , rain , snow " yes we can make snow " , so back to square one guys .
You're fixating on a specific location, and these readings would be for average temperatures across the globe.
Yes, certain areas warm at a faster rate than others, while still others cool off faster. We live in a very dynamic climate.
Your childhood glacier is diminishing, and hundreds of others are forming. It's been that way for centuries.
Just think, in another 1-200 years, there could be a brand new Glacier Park somewhere else!
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I don't. I haven't been to the antarctic to eyeball it. I'm just telling you what I've seen with my own eyes.
When I moved to this county in 1984 every farmer had a snowmobile, because it was an essential tool to deal with all of the snow. Lots of times, you used them to get to town when the roads were drifted over. The national guard was called out, and used Chinook's (those are big multi-rotor military helicopters in case anybody reading this doesn't recognize the name) to haul hay to feed cattle that was cut off from anybody getting to them with any kind of vehicle big enough to carry a load.
Now? There's not a snowmobile in the county that I know of, and we didn't have 6 inches of snow at a time this entire winter. Heck, we've had one snow of over 9 inches this decade. That's unheard of.
I have no idea about Antarctica, I've never been there, but nobody bothers putting up the drift fences here any more. There's no point, it's a waste of time and energy.
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The only reason the whole man made global warming thing has lasted so long, is because people are stupid. Just plain stupid. Zero common sense, zero motivation to research claims for themselves. I hate people.
I can't wait until we reach a point when this becomes a campaign slogan.
:mrgreen:
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I can not tell you how many times that I say just this exact thing.
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Entering in from the climate change is real but all you old timers will die before you need to eat your words corner, Will.
Yeah I'm sorry but I can't see how anyone who researches this stuff can possibly think that global warming isn't happening.
CO2 levels are approaching a time when antarctica was ice free. I think the climate change deniers are simply science deniers, and while people are free to believe what they want there is volumes and volumes and water melt, as well as manhatan sized chunks of missing glaciers in the north and antarctic to prove this physically.
Also how are you denying the very undeniable climate changes of the El Nino/La Nina systems which are becoming more blunted and are forecast to continue to be more and more stratefied.
This is while we are in a downward solar cycle too. Just look at the charts, levels and the rate of growth are exponentially increasing. It is a logarithmic scale effect now.
this thread appears to be a flame on modern science and little more.
This thread is nothing but information terrorism.
http://www.bgdailynews.com/communit...cle_f79b691e-cd22-520d-b548-7fe4661a1f09.html
http://www.theweathernetwork.com/ne...more-than-half-the-size-of-the-prairies/64597
Also the data that pre 1970's data is being hidden to blur figures is just lies, the fact is that there were no satalite resources available prior to this period, so mapping the issue wasn't possible as it is today as people wern't in those areas mapping sea ice as they are today.
https://nsidc.org/cryosphere/quickfacts/seaice.html
Much as a decade ago, or even 5 years ago we weren't mapping depth of sea ice which has led to revised figures of an even faster melt now that we can map volume not just surface area. Its melting, it is melting fast. That means TONS of heat is being absorbed by melting ice. Without that ice things would be heating much much faster. Without the ocean volume increases things would be getting much much hotter. There is however a limited amount of ice once that is gone things heat faster. Also while there is meters of sea volume to go up to capture some heat that is act as a heat sink there are also a lot of coastal cities that would be submerged so this is not good news either.
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/new-data-reveal-stunning-acceleration-of-sea-level-rise/
This from a year ago
http://www.lejournalinternational.fr/Global-Warming-the-first-Pacific-Islands-submerged_a2698.html
Will, good sir, know-er of all things, perfecter of formatting, and wordsmith scholar...
We are not denying that temperatures can fluctuate.
We are not claiming that no change has occurred.
We are simply, flatly, and boldly stating that, MAN IS NOT THE PRIMARY CAUSE!
"To prove this, let Facts be submitted to a candid world."
1. The planet has been SIGNIFICANTLY hotter, and SIGNIFICANTLY colder, than it is now. This cycle has occurred multiple times throughout the planet's history. It is unreasonable to believe that, because man now exists, this pattern should cease.
2. Mars, without any breath of human existence upon it, is also experiencing a warming trend. There must be some other effect at work than humankind.
3. Ice core samples have shown a repeated pattern of CO2 emissions increasing greatly AFTER a rise in temperature, not before. So, the claim that CO2 is a "cause" for warming on this planet is not supported by history.
Since you enjoy innundating us with links, perhaps you'd consider following this one: Carbon Dioxide and Global Warming: Where We Stand on the Issue
Editing to add shiny pictures like you:
My pictures are larger. I think that means I'm right.
:mrgreen:
Hell, if anything, man's existence on this planet has shown a stabilizing factor in temperature trends, with minimal fluctuations throughout our own history.
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While I could understand your position if there was large amounts of non manmade releases of greenhouse gases over the last century, unfortunately there hasn't, and there has been a solid evidence of coal, and other petrochemicals WHICH have been linked to increase in CO2 and other greenhouse gas emissions to increase total CO2 atmospheric levels to points that is resulting in an increased rate of change.
There is no doubt nature is contributing, however, the only sane understanding is that manmade processes have put greenhouse gases into the atmosphere, and have been increasing the rate of change.
If it makes you feel better humans arn't the only thing that is causing the temperature to raise, however they are speeding up the processes because the CO2 they are adding is not being sucked up fast enough. The earth can act as a carbon sink, but it has a maximum rate it can absorb. Likewise this whole thing is causing the icecaps to melt and breakup which is making it an exponential issue. While when the ice does melt it also acts as a carbon sink, but at the current temeprature it can't melt fast enough to suck up all the carbon.
Now while the ice will melt and suck up all the carbon, this requires the planet to be flooded under 40 meters of water, which ain't cool for people living around the coasts.
Dude, this is really simple science. petrochemicals, coal, fertalizers, ect all dump tons of carbon into the atmosphere, this can't be eaten up by the earths carbon sinks, so it is adding to the total. This is really simple math
earth can sink 10, earth produces 10 plus or minus 1
humans produce 2.
10 +/- 1 +2 = 11 to 12.
It is going to go up as long as there isn't large enough carbon sinks.
AND that is only carbon.
Now with the melt other stuff is be released particularly methane anther greenhouse gas.
It is all very simple science. People that deny this stuff is a manmade problem just havn't looked into very basic figures. IE how much carbon can be sunk by earth, how much earth creates, and how much man creates.
This is really really simple to understand.
The thing we are worried about is how fast it is happening. The rate at which this is happening is not normal. Raises are, but they are usually caused by things like volcanic eruptions and other major disasters. This stuff goes both ways. It is humans who are pushing he envelope and causing a faster rate of change, one some scientists are saying is not going to be recovered from without major changes to ocean levels for a long time.
This is decades we are talking about not centuries. It is happening extremely quickly.
You know cutting down the rainforests and other trees around the world isn't helping.
http://whatsyourimpact.org/greenhouse-gases/carbon-dioxide-sources
![up.jpg]()
There is no doubt nature is contributing, however, the only sane understanding is that manmade processes have put greenhouse gases into the atmosphere, and have been increasing the rate of change.
If it makes you feel better humans arn't the only thing that is causing the temperature to raise, however they are speeding up the processes because the CO2 they are adding is not being sucked up fast enough. The earth can act as a carbon sink, but it has a maximum rate it can absorb. Likewise this whole thing is causing the icecaps to melt and breakup which is making it an exponential issue. While when the ice does melt it also acts as a carbon sink, but at the current temeprature it can't melt fast enough to suck up all the carbon.
Now while the ice will melt and suck up all the carbon, this requires the planet to be flooded under 40 meters of water, which ain't cool for people living around the coasts.
Dude, this is really simple science. petrochemicals, coal, fertalizers, ect all dump tons of carbon into the atmosphere, this can't be eaten up by the earths carbon sinks, so it is adding to the total. This is really simple math
earth can sink 10, earth produces 10 plus or minus 1
humans produce 2.
10 +/- 1 +2 = 11 to 12.
It is going to go up as long as there isn't large enough carbon sinks.
AND that is only carbon.
Now with the melt other stuff is be released particularly methane anther greenhouse gas.
It is all very simple science. People that deny this stuff is a manmade problem just havn't looked into very basic figures. IE how much carbon can be sunk by earth, how much earth creates, and how much man creates.
This is really really simple to understand.
The thing we are worried about is how fast it is happening. The rate at which this is happening is not normal. Raises are, but they are usually caused by things like volcanic eruptions and other major disasters. This stuff goes both ways. It is humans who are pushing he envelope and causing a faster rate of change, one some scientists are saying is not going to be recovered from without major changes to ocean levels for a long time.
This is decades we are talking about not centuries. It is happening extremely quickly.
You know cutting down the rainforests and other trees around the world isn't helping.
http://whatsyourimpact.org/greenhouse-gases/carbon-dioxide-sources
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No your bigger pictures are making up for a lack of something else................... figures that explain what is happening.
Without resorting to name calling. I do not agree with your assessment that humans stabilize nature. They rape and pillage nature and leave destruction behind. It is just more recently there has been more awareness due to the state left behind being uninhabitable and illness laden.
It is only much more recently that some humans have the chance to help nature not kill us. We havn't got there yet.
Realistically you should be looking from about 15000 BC to today only really. Maybe from 250000BP as that is how long anatomically modern humans have been around. What is important for humans is how this effects us. Speeding up our extinction or massive chaos is not something to joke about.
It is a serious issue.
You completely ignored the facts presented. Classic.
CO2 build up does not CAUSE warming. If anything, the evidence shows a strong correlation that warming CAUSES CO2 build up.
I'm not getting into the hippy debate about "raping and pillaging". That's an emotional ploy, and it doesn't belong in a science discussion.
I never claimed anything about stabilizing nature. I said temperature. TEMPERATURE.
The data shows it. I'm just noting a possible connection. Actual experimentation would be needed, and a tremendously larger time frame required, to make an plausible correlation.
The CO2 alarmists should try that sometime, instead of basing their entire argument on the last 200 years of a 4.5 billion year old planet.
You seriously think it can be called "science" or "settled" when the entire scope of research, study, and experimentation encompasses 0.0000044444444444444444444444444444444% of the planet's entire history?
(had to find an online converter for that value, since I'm unsure of your ability to understand scientific notation, given your lack of understanding already)
As for speeding up our extinction, we have an astronomically(pun intended) higher chance of being hit by a death asteroid than by dying off from being a bit too warm.
Stop the alarmism.
CO2 build up does not CAUSE warming. If anything, the evidence shows a strong correlation that warming CAUSES CO2 build up.
I'm not getting into the hippy debate about "raping and pillaging". That's an emotional ploy, and it doesn't belong in a science discussion.
I never claimed anything about stabilizing nature. I said temperature. TEMPERATURE.
The data shows it. I'm just noting a possible connection. Actual experimentation would be needed, and a tremendously larger time frame required, to make an plausible correlation.
The CO2 alarmists should try that sometime, instead of basing their entire argument on the last 200 years of a 4.5 billion year old planet.
You seriously think it can be called "science" or "settled" when the entire scope of research, study, and experimentation encompasses 0.0000044444444444444444444444444444444% of the planet's entire history?
(had to find an online converter for that value, since I'm unsure of your ability to understand scientific notation, given your lack of understanding already)
As for speeding up our extinction, we have an astronomically(pun intended) higher chance of being hit by a death asteroid than by dying off from being a bit too warm.
Stop the alarmism.
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You didn't explain the increased rate of change. I am not denying cycles exist, however these increases either take major climatic events or a much longer time to occur.
You have no credibility as you clearly don't understand the relation between greenhouse gases and ambient temperature.
You know what causes CO2 to go up. Industrial processes and there being no carbon sink to suck up all the exhaust.
Fix the emergency and there is no need for an alarm.
This is a major issue for the planet and people like you are causing massive damage in spreading misinformed communications that have major flaws, such as rate of increase, and lying about things about figures being concealed when the technology didn't even exist then.
The solution is simple. Lower CO2 levels and plant more carbon sinks. This will buy us a little time. So that maybe our generation too won't be thrown into chaos by your generation's mistakes.'
Your prosperity on the future generations head.
I don't need to accept your abuse.
http://timeforchange.org/co2-concentration-causing-temperature-increase
In simple terms a greenhouse takes a bit of time to warm up.
I could theoretically live the 20 or 30 years it takes to see 500ppm concentration levels. You may not but that is no reason for you to be killing my generation.
http://news.discovery.com/earth/glo...xperiencing-a-global-warming-spurt-160106.htm
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