[JAGER]

I was in the market for AR-10, but with all this BULLS**T going on about weapons bans. I've kind of shifted towards the M14 with a match barrell. I have numerous LD bolt rifles so lets keep this to Semi-Auto only please. What are your thoughts and/or reccomendations. Please list reason why as well.

 

[Fuzzee]

Firearms fit the person, nothing more, nothing less. A million guys can say they prefer the AR and a million guys can say they prefer the M14. It doesn't matter more than which you prefer. Both are good rifles. I'd ask why you want the bull barrel, because a bull barrel M14 or AR-10 makes it so front heavy and heavier overall, all mostly end up being is range guns cause no one wants to carry it. A good 18 inch barrel is very capable of accurate fire out to 800 yards which is well beyond practical defensive ranges and even a standard contour is capable of good sustained accurate fire in a fire fight.







My personal preference is for the M14/M1A. One gives my little use for an AR-10.

 

[JAGER]

Firearms fit the person, nothing more, nothing less. A million guys can say they prefer the AR and a million guys can say they prefer the M14. It doesn't matter more than which you prefer. Both are good rifles. I'd ask why you want the bull barrel, because a bull barrel M14 or AR-10 makes it so front heavy and heavier overall, all mostly end up being is range guns cause no one wants to carry it. A good 18 inch barrel is very capable of accurate fire out to 800 yards which is well beyond practical defensive ranges and even a standard contour is capable of good sustained accurate fire in a fire fight.

My personal preference is for the M14/M1A. One gives my little use for an AR-10.

Fuzzee: Thanks for the reply. Maybe I should have been more clear on the match barrel. It's not the bull barrel, the match barrel I was refering to was the 20", 1:8 Twist, light barrel. The M14/A1 is a very heavy rifle in general. Would suck to do a 25K hump with BOB that's for sure. I love the AR set-up, but I scared to pull the trigger on one because of these damn weapon bans that seem to be going around. Everyone (Tree Hugging Hipsters) think just because it has a pistol grip it a WMD!!! FFS I wish they would move to Germany! However,,,,

 

[rice paddy daddy]

With a standard M1A you do not need a match barrel unless you shoot competetively. Also something to consider is match sights - the match rear sight has a smaller appature which is great for Camp Perry but not so great for quick target aquisition.
Standard model, standard sights, you should be able to hit a man sized sillouhette center mass at 500 yards no problem as long as your eyes are good.

 

[Smitty901]

When they ban the AR the M14 will also go.
I am a big fan of the 308. But if I must be onthe move and take what I need with me I am going with an AR 5.56.
I have carried both ever extra big of weight you pay for . If you going to fight your way out more rounds carried is going to win.
Now if your going o sit on the hill and shoot a long way off M14 rules the day.
Heavy Barrels really only start to come into play after a few shoots in a row not a big concern for personal protection.
A well set up M14 is not going to be in the low cost rack.

 

[rickkyw1720pf]

One thing that isn't talked much about, But highly precise guns like the M1A supermatch is not only heavier but their chambers or usually of a tighter tolerance and will not except dirty ammo like most military rifles. Extra care has to be taken when reloading rounds (full case for sure) and carrying them.

One thing I don't like about the M1a's (M14) is that they are probably the worst rifle to scope. The Scope mount is usually a combination of mount and case deflector. I have a m1a supermatch and I keep it iron sights only.

 

[Smitty901]

To clear up the use of the M14 in current Military.
We still had a bunch of them in inventory so they were available.
I know if you watch TV you would think the ARMY has 300,000 snipers. They do not.
What they do have is Designated marksman. They are Solider that have been chosen to attend additional marksman ship training. They do not go to the Sniper course.
They train on the M14. Their skills are then put to use in over watch security and security tower duty. They use the M14 not because it is a better weapon but because it is a better weapon for long distance shots. How many snipers in an infantry unit is set. How many Designated marksmen you can have is not, you can send as many to the short course as you like provided you have time and request the seats. You will not get an M14 for everyone of them the unit request them and then they are assigned according to what they choose to give you. The soldier still has their primary issue.
Standard M14 issue in trained hands make 700 meter kills consistently . On a good day trained shooters have put them out to 800-900 meters.
Once you get out to much beyond 500-600 meters a man looks very small and the site post covers the target , you need optics to do a good job.
M14 is a very fine rifle with few faults that madder . They use to be affordable.
You want a 308 that will reach out and tag something? Look up M24 Remington I have one , For awhile you could buy recondition ones for a competitive price , now I doubt it.

 

[rickkyw1720pf]

To clear up the use of the M14 in current Military.
We still had a bunch of them in inventory so they were available.
I know if you watch TV you would think the ARMY has 300,000 snipers. They do not.
What they do have is Designated marksman. They are Solider that have been chosen to attend additional marksman ship training. They do not go to the Sniper course.
They train on the M14. Their skills are then put to use in over watch security and security tower duty. They use the M14 not because it is a better weapon but because it is a better weapon for long distance shots. How many snipers in an infantry unit is set. How many Designated marksmen you can have is not, you can send as many to the short course as you like provided you have time and request the seats. You will not get an M14 for everyone of them the unit request them and then they are assigned according to what they choose to give you. The soldier still has their primary issue.
Standard M14 issue in trained hands make 700 meter kills consistently . On a good day trained shooters have put them out to 800-900 meters.
Once you get out to much beyond 500-600 meters a man looks very small and the site post covers the target , you need optics to do a good job.
M14 is a very fine rifle with few faults that madder . They use to be affordable.
You want a 308 that will reach out and tag something? Look up M24 Remington I have one , For awhile you could buy recondition ones for a competitive price , now I doubt it.[/

The m24 is a complete weapon system from stock up. But you can still find 308 Remington 700 milspec 5r rifles. It now comes in 300 win mag also.

Remington 700 Milspec 5R - Sniper Central

 

[shooter]

Since like the ranch 14 the M1A has not landed on the proposed ban list its seems they really are going after the pistol grip more then the mag release. And living in California where the AR's need the bullet button but the M1a/ranch 14 do not, it leads me to believe that its the pistol grip they are going after right now. Before the S.H. shooting I was looking into buying either an AR-10 or M1a and after a lot of research and shooting and testing the two I was leaning more towards the M1a scout. I liked the 18" barrel and when I would hold it up to my shoulder and look down the sights it had a better feel and sat better between my shoulder cheek and forearm. Granted I could buy an after market stock for the AR that would do the same thing but I feel if I am dropping $1500-$2000 on a firearm it should be as close to ready to shoot as possible (ie. add a scope load it up and hit the range.) I ended up not buying either as the S.H. shooting happened and with the rush of people buying guns I decided to hold off for a while. (after all I have plenty of other firearms.) Both are great guns it really does come down to what feels better when you are shooting the rifle, but if you are worried about dropping $2000 on a rifle and then having to turn it in in a year or so or become a felon I am willing to say the M1A is the safer choice.

 

[Infidel]

I would go with a standard M1A and my reasoning is simple, I love that Garand type action. I have never been an AR guy, I don't like shooting them even though I can shoot them fairly well. I even think the AR style rifles are pretty good guns (for someone else) and considered buying a couple of lowers to build rifles for my boys before I was betrayed by the Governor of NYS. In general I would say get which ever rifle you like better because I think the 2 rifles are pretty comparable.

-Infidel

 

[Verteidiger]

I was in the market for AR-10, but with all this BULLS**T going on about weapons bans. I've kind of shifted towards the M14 with a match barrell. I have numerous LD bolt rifles so lets keep this to Semi-Auto only please. What are your thoughts and/or reccomendations. Please list reason why as well.

I own both. I have to say I prefer the M1A personally, but either one is a great battle rifle, in all honesty. Hard to beat .308 firepower in a semi-auto, too.

AR-10 pros: More accurate because of free floating barrel. Lighter in weight (but not lightweight). Can use LR-308 P-Mags, depending on manufacturer. So much easier to mount optics on. More modular, so you can set it up to your liking easier. Rails allow for attachments. Easy to find parts; not so easy if SHTF, though.

AR-10 cons: Pain in the a$$ to clean carbon out of chamber and off bolt - scraper needed and time consuming. Need to carry spare parts - bolt, firing pin, extractor, etc. because parts get baked and abused in chamber from hot gases and carbon buildup. Not easy to use in close quarters, vehicles, hallways, etc. Requires regular maintenance and must be kept wet to ensure reliability; dust, sand, mud & muck, ice, snow can create jamming and malfunction issues.

M1A pros: Very reliable operating system. Can get 25 round mags (Magpul is also coming out with 25 round mags this year, so a wash soon). Gun is very durable, and handles adverse conditions very well - mud, muck, snow, ice, dust, sand do not cause as many malfunctions. Operating system means gun runs clean and cool. Probably the best factory iron sights available, especially with the tritium front sight. Not as accurate as an AR-10, but even standard model is combat accurate. Excellent reputation for reliability and durability.

M1A cons: Heavy compared to AR-10, depending on model chosen. Some cast factory parts can be prone to breakage (but customer service is great and lifetime warranty). Combat accurate; match accuracy requires careful bedding, lugged receivers, upgraded barrels, and can be costly to obtain. Cleaning is made difficult by receiver design - need articulating or ratcheting chamber brush. Mounting optics is a real PITA - scope mounts are pricey - TROY Battlerail is a good way around this problems, but costs $250ish - but it is worth it.

You can get .308 AR-10 rifles (and I do not get all hung up on "only ArmaLite makes an AR-10" BS the fanboys scream about) that are great rifles. LaRue Tactical 7.62 OBR is an incredible rifle - 0.33" MOA gun out of the box, but $3400ish. Les Baer SWAT model is amazing, 0.5" MOA guaranteed, but $3800ish. LMT MWS, KAC SR-25, ArmaLite all make great rifles.

But for under $1500, I would get a standard M1A in black fiberglass with 22" barrel, or DPMS LR-308, or even better, the Remington R-25 with the 20" barrel - that R-25 is a sub-MOA rifle out of the box with factory ammo (but you will need optics or iron sights).

In the final analysis, if I had to choose only one, I would buy the 22" Standard M1A, and some 25 round CMI (CheckMate Industries = OEM) mags, and extra ammo.

 

[tacman605]

I have never owned an AR-10, shot several from basic DPMS to suppressed SR-25's. The basic guns seem accurate enough for their purpose however the M4 style rifles have a bit more recoil than I would want in a CQB type rifle. Right now anything that takes a proprietary mag is gonna be a pain. The Rock River's take surplus FN mags which can still be had at decent prices.

I have and do own M1A type rifles along with several others. As stated they are a pain in the ass to mount an optic with the generic or SA mounts. I spent the money and bought a Sadlak Titanium and never looked back. Since you already have dedicated long range rifles look at the SOCOM and Scout Squad. They would lend themselves to more of a CQB role and you could still get some good range out of them.

Stick with CMI or other GI mags, avoid the Korean and other imports they are more trouble than they are worth. With today's prices none are going to be a real bargain.

 

[JAGER]

Thanks for all the feedback. Looks like I'm going to have to flip a coin!!! Both systems seem like they will fit the bill. I just hope the ban doesn't get them taken out of my hands when I come back to the US from Germany!

 

[Seneca]

I have owned and shot both the AR10 and M1A (M14) rifles...

I still have the M1A the AR10 I traded in. Weight wise they are close so no advantage either way. 20 round magazines for both so they are comparable there as well.

The AR10 has more sight/optics mounting options because the normally come with a pictinney rail, not so with the M1A, advantage to the AR10.

The AR10 upper encloses the breach area, the M1A is open. It's easier to clear a malfunction from a M1A than it is from an AR10...advantage to the M1A...

Cost wise the AR10's are less expensive...it's dependent on options and manufacturer...but generally speaking...adavantage to the AR10.

Durability and easy of mainenance probably goes to the M1A, though I doubt if properly cared for one would wear either out in a lifetime. Slight advantage to the M1A because it's a more open design and as such a bit easier to clean.

Accuracy I have to say even no advantage to either model...the .308/7.62X51 is an inherently accurate cartridge and both designs benifit from it...