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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I'm considering a semi auto rifle in .308. I'm not real fond of the AR 10 variants because of the limited magazine and interchangeability. I am leaning more toward the H&K clones. The Century C-91, The CETME and the PTR-91. These things are everywhere and magazines are aplenty and dirt cheap. I found 100 of them for 150.00 on Gunbroker. I have heard bad things about the Century weapon. Any recommendations or am I leaving out any viable candidates?
 

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The PTR-91 is a nice clone and ya gotta love the wooden furniture. I'm starting to see them localy at my favorite haunts, The CIA C-91 are VERY hit and miss. I have seen them anywhere from the old MSRP of $600ish up to $900ish, which is isane. The quality can vary vastly from weapon to weapon.

For me, if I was going to roll the dice on a Century model I have a somewhat local(ish) shop that has a great owner who will do a bit of massaging on them when you buy from him. He builds a lot of custom semi's and will do what he can to make any thing that goes out of his door as functional as posible.

As you can guess, he has a nice backorder log.
 

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If you are going with a semi-auto, go with an M1A. Lots of magazines available out there and it is an accurate and reliable weapon.
 

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Of the G3 clones the PTR91's are the best quality in my experience. I had a PTR91F with the 18 inch bull chrome moly barrel for a while and only sold it because I found it not as good for me as an M14/M1A. The Cetme's from CAI are hit and miss from what I've seen also. If you want a quality weapon, quality and cheap often don't go together. Next in line would be an HK91, though there of limited quantity of course as there not a new available import anymore thanks to George Bush SR. Thanks George.

The HK91's aren't really better than the PTR91's other than the cold hammer forged barrels the HK91 had/have and the original chrome moly's PTR had/have. I've been out of the game on what current with them though not having one anymore. I always thought the PTR91's and G3's were the perfect candidate for melonite treatment of the barrel and parts. I see HKParts has cold hammer forged barrels for sale that have been melonited, but I don't see anywhere that PTR91's come with a melonited barrel. I'd think not, but you could always have it changed out though a G3 barrel is pressed into the trunion and than the pin welded in place. People that do it were never that plentiful when I had one.

PTR Industries

HK 91, G3 US made barrel, HK g3 barrel - HKPARTS.NET

HK CLONE TALK
 

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Did I mention that while there trigger tends to stink out of box they can be quite nice after a trigger job. The rifle's are very reliable and are based off of a true battle rifle, but the parts for them can be crazy expensive. Cheap mags, yes, but parts, no.

ptr-91-i15.jpg
 

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I personally steered clear from the G3 clones due to the variability between rifles - there were plenty of used ones to choose from, but to me it looked like the same rifle went up for sale shortly after the person bought it. Although they all would say it was a reliable tack driver... I don't have the time or patience (ok, don't have the knowledge either) to pick out a winner from the lot, so I went with an LR-308. Yes you said you didn't want AR-10, but just saying that's what I went with...

The DPMS LR-308 and the CMMG 308s and a few others can share parts and use the 20rd magpul mags. They are reliable and accurate, and you don't have to worry about getting a lemon.

Other than that I would suggest the M1A, but that is at least half again the cost of an LR-308.
 

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The H&K rifles used to have fluted chambers and polygonal rifling. I don't know for sure if they still do. The fluted chamber means they will fire under very adverse conditions but the brass takes a beating and will not accept being reloaded for long. The polygonal rifling is very accurate with the right bullet/load but it can be finicky about what it likes. Other than that the H&K rifles are durable and pretty well made guns that last a long time.
When you shoot make sure nobody is to your right - those things throw brass a long ways.
 

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I have an HK-91 and many years ago I sent the trigger group off to a person that was modifying them I think his name was Wilson. He made the trigger pull much lighter and add a set trigger. Making it much more accurate. The way the set trigger worked is you would set the safety/fire lever to the new set position and pull the trigger. Then move the lever to fire position and just a small squeeze of the trigger would fire it. If you just left it the fire position it would work like a normal HK-91 but with a much lighter and smother trigger pull. Another good thing about the HK-91 is that it has a true floating barrel as it doesn't use gas from the barrel to cycle it, it has a unique roller locking system. My brother in law had a full auto HK-91 that he paid 3000 for and got the class 3 stamp. He sold it a couple of years ago for 10000. Since the trigger group is what the class 3 stamp is for you can use it on several different guns making them full auto legally.
 

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The H&K rifles used to have fluted chambers and polygonal rifling. I don't know for sure if they still do. The fluted chamber means they will fire under very adverse conditions but the brass takes a beating and will not accept being reloaded for long. The polygonal rifling is very accurate with the right bullet/load but it can be finicky about what it likes. Other than that the H&K rifles are durable and pretty well made guns that last a long time.
When you shoot make sure nobody is to your right - those things throw brass a long ways.
HK makes a port buffer that will eliminate the dinged brass problem for reloading.
 

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THE 308 rifle is nothing less than an M14 / M1A.

The rest of the MBR's from my experience were where someone tried to take the cheap manufacturing process tpye like the AK's and come up with an accurate and reliable weapon like the M14.

It's about as easy as designing a vehicle that can be a top shelf sports car at night, . . . and haul 40 tons of gravel by day.

Every step down in price from the M14 / M1A will give you something less in quality, . . . accuracy, . . . reliability, . . . etc.

Save yourself some greif, . . . get the right one the first time, . . .

May God bless,
Dwight
 

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THE 308 rifle is nothing less than an M14 / M1A.

The rest of the MBR's from my experience were where someone tried to take the cheap manufacturing process tpye like the AK's and come up with an accurate and reliable weapon like the M14.

It's about as easy as designing a vehicle that can be a top shelf sports car at night, . . . and haul 40 tons of gravel by day.

Every step down in price from the M14 / M1A will give you something less in quality, . . . accuracy, . . . reliability, . . . etc.

Save yourself some greif, . . . get the right one the first time, . . .

May God bless,
Dwight
The M14/M1A is the best of them to me too, but people have different tastes. Whatever they like when it comes down to it. The commercial M14 though, based off of usgi M14's, there receivers tested by the military to go to 400,000 rounds for all makers but TRW tested to go to 450,000. A drop in action that a person can put into lots of amazing stocks from good ole woods, to usgi fiberglasses, JAE-100's, Sage's, Troy MCS's, Arcangel's, to customs like LAW483's. Some of the best iron sights ever designed, an ambidextrous safety and mag release out of the box, chromelined, stainless, and chromemoly barrel options from match to usgi fighting contour. A trigger with a little work that can be excellent and accuracy possibilities to hit targets way out there. Tough, reliable and capable. There not the cheapest, but there an excellent investment. To each his own though.

LAW483 Enterprises, Custom, M14, Stocks, LOSOK, Valkyr

M14 MCS Upgrade|Rifle Accessories|MCS Battlerail|Rifle Chassis Systems|Tactical Carbines|Troy Industries

SAGE International, Ltd.

Springfield Armory

M14 Rifle

7.62mm Firearms ? Rifles

 

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I've owned varients of all of the Big three NATO battle rifles (M1A, CETME/HK91, FAL/L1A1). All are good rifles, and I wouldn't feel under guned with any of them. The PTR-91 is the best if you're on a budget. New, they're the cheapest of the rifles, and mags and parts are still very common and cheap. the M1A has the best sights of the three, especially for longer range shooting, while the FAL is my favorite of the three in terms of a "combat rifle". It has the best ergonomics, with everything right where it needs to be, and everything makes sense (at least in my humble opinion).

If you're not strictly on a budget, AR-10s deserve another look, as there are several good options out there, and the 7.62 PMag by MagPul is coming back into stock in some places. Other good 7.62/.308 rifles out there are the Kel Tec RFB, a good, solid bullpup, and, my favorite, the FN SCAR 17S. If you can scrap up the cash, and find one, the SCAR puts all of the others on this list to shame.
 

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Went shooting a couple of days ago with three 308s. Scar-17, LMT-MWS and M1A. Scar-17 I installed a ta11 Acog, LMT-MWS I put a NightForce NXS 5.5-22x56, M1A open sights.
All three seemed to have the same amount of kick but probably because the LMT and the M1A were quite a bit heavier then the Scar-17. The M1A weighing in around 13 lbs. The LMT-MWS I could easily get tighter groups at 100 yards from the bench but a lot of that can be contributed to the NightForce compared to open sights and Acog. The Scar-17 and the LMT worked flawlessly the M1A did not like my reloads at all and after several failed to chamber I gave up on it. Even thought the M1A is more expensive then the other two and supposed to be guaranteed sub MOA it is a terrible platform to put optics on, the scope mounts has to double as a deflector also. If I had to head for the hills I guess I would have to go with the Scar-17 if I was taking a 308.
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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Sweet weapons and great classic 4x4.
 

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Everyone's got their opinion. I don't think the M14/M1A is a terrible platform to put optics on. It's not perfect, but what is. Not that this is Rick's in a bottle, but a lot of guys have become spoiled on flat top receivers with picattiny rails that anything else is too much hassle for them. There are excellent mounts for optics on the M14/M1A these days. It just depends what you want. The receiver mounts like Smith and Sadlak's are part deflector, but it depends on the ejection of a particular rifle and round whether it actually hits the inside of the mount. Many don't. Either way there very reliable and tough mounts as the rifles themselves can be. There used heavily across the US and in the military for our usgi M14 used in SDM/DM roles, put through constant use and hard surroundings with little to no problems.

Shooting iron sights on an M14/M1A is a testament to skill. But shooting precision shots and groups with any rifle using iron sights only is. To shoot sub-moa groups with it regardless of what the rifle can do, you have to be on your game. Other rifles can be more forgiving to some people if their not at that moment. I know I shoot the M14/M1A better than other rifles as it's fit and handling is excellent for me, but I still can only squeeze at best 1 moa groups out of mine with irons. Scope any rifle, give it a more stable base to shoot off of and your going to hit the target better, no matter who you are. The M14/M1A is not a perfect rifle. No one is going to honestly say that. But it's a hell of a good rifle and I know I personally would go to hell and back with one in my hands. All M14/M1A's are not the same of course. You need to set it up for what you want it to do and would be better for you to do it with. You also need to understand how to do that. A lot of guys think a heavy barreled and McMillan stocked SuperMatch is what they should get to use as a hunting or survival rifle. Even a Scout, with it's much lighter 18 1/2 barrel usgi contour can be made into a 1 moa to sub-moa shooter with the right stock, good optics, a little tuning and the skills to use it. If you require a really light rifle to carry (around 8 or less pounds) than any .308/7.62x51mm battlerifle isn't going to suit you well.

A person would probably be better to stick with lightweight .223/5.56x45mm's than if they want semiautomatic capability. There still not a .308/7.62x51mm battlerifle with the hitting power and reach they have though. There are some great choices for rifles these days and it's nice to have choices. A person, I find is always going to get the better firearm for them by doing some research online and getting out, handling the options available to them. Even better, shooting them, but that's not always an easy option for someone. If someone comes over to me at the range and says to me, "I like your M1A." "I've been looking at getting a battlerifle/semi .308/7.62x51mm rifle.", I pretty much always let them squeeze off a few rounds and have met more than a few guys who are the same way.

Here's some great photo's inside the PTR91 plant. I seriously hope they do move down south. We'll appreciate them and their product like it deserves.

PTR Industries shows off what they're moving out of Connecticut (18 Pics) - Guns.com
 

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+1 for the SCAR 17s. It just feels great in one's hands.
+1 for the M1A. Not so much a "black" rifle and hence less likely to be banned or yoked to a bullet button.
The FAL is also a solid choice, and more affordable.

A rifle that's not been mentioned here but would be a great budget choice is the VEPR .308, from the Molot factory in Russia (RPK style).

Personally, I'm going with a Mini-G in .308. You can send an M1 Garand (get 'em cheap from the CMP) to Shuff's Parkerizing and he'll send it back working great but much shorter (and therefore lighter). You can also buy a Mini-G from him in .30-06 for $1,425 + $45 shipping. USGI quality semi-automatic MBR. Since Garands use enbloc clips (you drop the entire clip in the receiver, unlike stripper clips) these are not affected by gun laws pertaining to mag-fed rifles (sorry, I live in California).
 

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BTDT,
I prefer the AR 10/R25 with a 20" or longer barrel for a LONG RANGE accurate 7.62 NATO rifle,
and I prefer the M14/M1A/M305 with a side folding stock for a short to medium ranger CQB HEAVY HITTER.
But I DO have "choices".




I liked the ergonomics, balance, handling, and superb accuracy of the AR 10 so much, I designed the alloy Blackfeather M14 stock to make the inexpensive M14 feel and shoot more like an AR 10.

Either an M14 or an AR 10/R25 would be my choice for SHTF in my boat or motorhome or a fixed defensive position.

For BUG OUT in my tropical rain forest/old growth terrain, I would prefer a lighter /shorter/less powerful "carbine", like my CSA 58 in 7.62 X 39 Russian.


Or depending on the situation, an AR 15 in 5.56 NATO with a .22 LR rimfire conversion kit


Or for BICYCLE BUG OUT , My Glockenspiel Carbine Conversion IN 9MM AND .40 S&W AND .357 SIG AND .22 LR




YPMMV
LAZ 1
[;{)
 
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