Prepper Forum / Survivalist Forum banner
1 - 17 of 17 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
8 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi guys!

I've just launched my portable EMP shield for your laptop - lightweight and cheap. Additionally, I have a better Faraday cage for your phone so that you can't be tracked via GPS or have your conversations recorded and sent out in real time.

Starfish Defender 80 | Indiegogo

What I'm trying to do is figure out - is this something you all find useful? My problem is that, as a prepper, I knew I wanted this, so I made it. But I'm not 100% positive that OTHER preppers necessarily want it too. Can you share your thoughts on this and how it can be better?

Thank you all!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,086 Posts
My concern is that if you can use WiFi you are in danger by the E-1 pulse of a HEMP.
The E-2 and E-3 pulses will not affect your equipment if it isn't on household current.
Laptops are protected from the E-2 and E-3 by their AC power supply so all you have to worry about is the HEMP E-1 pulse.
Your cell phone will be of little use because all the cell towers will be useless after a HEMP or a simple solar flare that is strong enough to take down the grid.

I believe you are selling a "feel good" solution to a problem that you are hoping never happens and without a guarantee.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 · (Edited)
Paul - on E-1, actually, that is not correct. WiFi commonly operates on 2.4 gHz - it's extremely difficult to generate strong waves at that frequency, or higher frequencies in general. Especially when the WiFi functionality (and therefore HEMP) is reduced. <1 gigahertz is of more concern because the lower frequency allows for more power.

Sorry, I believe you've totally misinterpreted the point of the cell phone blocker - is there anything I can do to make it clearer? I called it a cell phone BLOCKER, not a cell phone EMP Shield, for the exact reason you mentioned. The cell phone blocker's purpose is to cut cell phone reception even at the strongest signal location (next to the cell tower) so that you can't be tracked unless you decide to take your phone out of the blocker and use it. It also means that any sensitive conversations you have can't be monitored remotely through your phone. Yes, it does serve to block EMP and does it well -but for the reasons you mentioned, it would be less than useful that way.

I appreciate your taking the time to provide criticism, but your belief that I'm acting in bad faith is disheartening and misplaced.
 

·
Mod Squad
Joined
·
2,260 Posts
It's an interesting concept. Your customer centered request for help is a thing of beauty. Since you asked for opinions, I'll throw in my 2 cents. Offered in the spirit of helpfulness...

Show the products more and forget the scifi landscapes. I wouldn't mention The Matrix. Ground your products in fact and they seem real, tie them to fiction and they seem like a fantasy.

I'm guessing fewer than 1 in 100,000 people believe nuclear EMP is even a remote probability. Your sales won't support enough advertising to reach more than a small percentage of these people, and few of them will be motivated enough to actually make a purchase. I would forget about that market segment... it's not worth chasing.

However, solar flares and sunspot activity have been all over the news lately. I would tap into that and stress the other sources of EMP. It's possible to reach a much larger market that way. There are historical records of natural EMPs frying electronics. (The Solar Storm of 1859) That's the main "problem" your device "solves", not a nuclear bomb blast. I would hammer home that possibility as a selling point.

As to the products; I would never buy that laptop case. It's like trying to watch TV through a curtain. If it had clear conductive plastic and was well fitted to the case... maybe. But there's a problem there, right? There are so many different case sizes and shapes, the sales numbers of each model will never justify their production and distribution costs. I consider that product to be a dead one.

I never saw enough of the cell case to say much about it, but if it protects against EMP... maybe. Again I think people expect something closer to a skin instead of a bag if the product is intended to be used all the time. I understand that the screen between you and the display is important, but I see it as a product killer. If you can't find the right clear material, it's dead as a "full time" EMP blocker IMO, but might well be viable as a "cloaking" device.

But...

It is an interesting concept. I would look at patentable ways to make the EMP protection technology usable in other related products, such as cell phone belt cases and laptop carrying bags. They sell kazillions of these a year, and competition in that market is fierce. EMP protection, as an added benefit, could be a profitable unique selling point, as are the cell "cloaker" benefits. Build it into common form-factor carriers and be protected without having to look at and interact with the device through a bag. After all, we will get between 18 minutes and 3 days advanced warning, which is plenty of time to stuff your device into it's protective carry case... if you had one.

If there's anything patentable there, patent it, then license the technology you develop to the big manufacturers already making cases. They can afford the professional "stylist" designers and marketing needed to make it a success. You would make less per unit, but take no risk and see more profit in the long term by playing to a much bigger market.

If you can't patent it, the minute you start making money some company with the design and marketing resources will jump on it, undercut your prices, and basically put you out of the game.

I'm not trying to offend you. You asked for input so I'm taking the time to give you mine. These are just one guy's opinions, take them to heart (or not) as you will. Like I said, the basic idea seems to have merit, I wish you the best of luck. :)
 

·
Mod Squad
Joined
·
2,260 Posts
By the way, I want my cell protected even if the towers are down and I don't get service. I have a lot of stuff on my phone besides phone stuff. Images, applications, data... it's all valuable to me. Phones these days are powerful handheld computers, the EMP protection could be a strong additional selling point.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8 Posts
Discussion Starter · #6 · (Edited)
By the way, I want my cell protected even if the towers are down and I don't get service. I have a lot of stuff on my phone besides phone stuff. Images, applications, data... it's all valuable to me. Phones these days are powerful handheld computers, the EMP protection could be a strong additional selling point.
Prepadoodle: Thank you for writing out your thoughts - I actually DO appreciate the feedback. It's not all a marketing ploy - it IS marketing, sure, but I AM interested in feedback. I appreciate you taking time to write about it!!

I have to think about your description of it being "too sci-fi." You bring up a good point on the nuclear EMP vs. solar flare market targeting. As for the visibility - I hadn't anticipated this to be an issue - I thought I had solved this, but I apparently need more high-resolution shots of the screen to show how visible it actually is - so thank you! The main reason the screens appear less visible is due to wrinkling - these are the prototypes and have been well-tested and deliberately wrinkled. Actually, in many computers or TV's there is probably a similar mesh material on the inside of the computer, but it is perfectly flat so visibility is good.

Explanations on some of the points you made: I wish I could use conductive plastic - but it wouldn't work - your computer would overheat - and conductive plastic can't block enough energy. Sizing to make it fit exactly would be nice, but not workable for the reasons you mentioned and also because extra space is needed so that you can type without damaging the screen (if it was extremely taut, typing would warp it significantly over time). I can definitely understand hesitance to buy it - it IS $89. I just figure that the alternatives that are better are literally 100x more expensive. Patenting is already taken care of.

The cell phone bag does block EMP. Actually, it's stronger and even more expensive on a per-inch basis to make than the laptop - the cell phone bag's mesh is special coated with copper as well (doesn't change visibility much) which basically adds another layer of protection.

You can look at other people's ratings of EMP effectiveness here:
www.emcconsultinginc.com/docs/thincoat.pdf‎

I would suggest looking at competitor products if you are interested in cell phone protection. "Cell phone Faraday bag" is what I would use as a search to come up with results. The way I figure it, after you look at the competition and price/value you would probably want another look at mine or give up on the category altogether! Just a tip - the numbers that matter on effectiveness are the stated decibel rating of the bag. 70-80 decibels at frequencies between 1 mHz to 1gHz is something you would want. Anything less than 40 basically would work only if you are very far from a cell phone tower. For EMP purposes, 70-80 decibels is "good enough" - you can go lower for sure, but then effectiveness starts to depend on various factors rather than being ironclad. Hope that helps!

Once again, thank you very much!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
559 Posts
I'll take a gander at it later, very interested. Can you provide any of your background? Education/research to support what you did? (or is that over at the website, if so just say so and I'll check it out later.)

Prepadoodle, awesome replies! Very happy to see honest and thoughtful responses like that!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8 Posts
Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Hi Nathan, it's there, but for what you're looking for, I believe my father's expertise would be better suited. He's listed on the site as well. He has a master's in electrical engineering and assisted on the technical side in figuring out how to measure and test effectiveness as well as figure out the truth behind all the various EMP claims on the Internet - half of which are unfortunately incorrect.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,086 Posts
This is a good site with links to other affirmative information on the effects of different types of EMP on the different electrical and electronic devices that you might have.
I strongly suggest you read it and the information in the links to get a thorough understanding of what is at risk in different scenarios.

Electromagnetic Pulse Protection - EMP - Futurescience.com

My only wish here to to get needed information to those who regard it as important to them. I have no wish to bash any products or opinions on this or any other topic.
The only way to be prepared is to have reliable information and use it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,368 Posts
I have been in several of these discussions.

I side with insulating the equipment to be protected then placing it in a metal box which is grounded. AKA Faraday box.

I have been told by electrical engineers the ground will act as an antenna during an EMP.

I reject this theory but must admit the EMP event will likely come from the sun. No one knows the consequences buy telegraph equipment was damaged during an event in the 19th century.

I do not believe your product will work.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
135 Posts
Watch Helmet Automotive lighting Flash photography Gesture Drinkware Dishware Tableware Glass Linens This is what I use as my EMP shield, my question is if I can still get a weak cell phone signal inside the pot when the lid is on and it is sealed up tight does that mean it will not work? I have been thinking about buying a different type of shield but my bob is heavy enough! Should I throw it into an old microwave and test it out? LOL
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,086 Posts
If you get any signal from or to your cell phone it is not a good protection. One reason might be that you have no insulation between the pan and the products inside - the pan is acting like an antenna. ;)

If that cell phone stays in that pan in your BOB then remove the battery and place them each in their own freezer type ziplock bag, wrapped in foil then another bag, more foil, and another bag. The last bag is to insulate it from the pan - try it first with the cell phone on and see if it gets a signal at all. If it still gets a signal then add another two layers of foil and bags.

It isn't just putting a device into a metal box - the device has to be insulated from the metal box. Read the page in my link above...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8 Posts
Discussion Starter · #13 · (Edited)
@PaulS - I believe people should get the right information too. Your link is a good one - I've read a few of futurescience's emp articles at least 10 times over the past year. Somewhere there is a sentence that has the right math - a decibel rating of 80 on the shield/cage means that at that frequency, 20,000 volts becomes 2 volts. While that is still E-1 energy and not E-2, it is worth noting that most laptops are supposed to survive lightning/ESD shock of in the 10,000 range. But your laptop's decibel rating is too low to render EMP harmless by itself.

@PalmettoTree - You can feel free to order one and test it. I'll refund all your money and you can keep the bag - IF you have hard evidence that it doesn't work. Just video tape it. I think you have two points confused. A Faraday box may be grounded or not grounded. It's still a Faraday box. All that's changing is whether it's grounded or not. I've seen my testing results first hand when over 150,000 volts/m were introduced to two laptops by an EMP simulator and even provided test footage video to everyone. There just isn't footage on this sort of thing out there and you're getting what I recorded. The shielded computer was fine, the other was shut down. I'm sure if it came down to it, I could even get testimony from personnel from the testing company that could verify that my shield worked as advertised. If you think it will not work, I guess there's not a lot I can say.

That said - I appreciate your comment regardless, as it shows I perhaps need to focus more on educating consumers from a marketing point of view.

Thanks,

Joel
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,368 Posts
EMPs are one of many subjects I have an opinion about based on my limited knowledge on the subject. It is also one I care so little about that I will not argue the point or mind being wrong.

If you can prevent a working cell from being tracked then you have a real marketable product.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8 Posts
Discussion Starter · #15 ·
@BigBugOutTrucks.com - The answer to "will it work?" is "it depends." :D
Question #1 - Where is the nearest cell phone tower? If right outside your house - yea, it MIGHT protect against EMP if the tower is so close that it penetrates because the signal is strong. But if you're far away - like half a mile or more from the tower - then odds are against it working as an EMP shield.
Question #2 - Do you have a perfect seal when the lid is on, as in full contact all around? If not, then it's not a good shield - you could aluminum foil wrap it if you can guarantee no holes.
Question #3 - Is the outside of your electronics 100% plastic? Insulation matters -but plastic outside = insulation. You have to cover up metal parts.
Question #4 - What metal is it made out of? Different materials have different dB ratings at different frequencies. Overall, copper is best - but that doesn't seem like it's copper.

Hope that helps!

Joel
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
135 Posts
Tower is about 300 yards away, pot is stainless steel, phone is plastic samsung galaxy s but has touch screen, I have a perfect seal when lid is on. Thanks! IT will only ring if I had a full signal before putting it in the pot, and the pot kills the gps signal ( I know that gps sig is weak anyway ) Im liking the Idea of killing my GPS on MY phone because the GOV'T can now send a drone attack straight to my location in the event that our Muslim Brotherhood loving president decides to "Off" me because I love my 1st amendment rights and use it to advertise Pork Ammo Paint on my website! I was thinking about opening my phone up and shorting out the "GPS Tracking Device" all together ::saber::

@BigBugOutTrucks.com - The answer to "will it work?" is "it depends." :D
Question #1 - Where is the nearest cell phone tower? If right outside your house - yea, it MIGHT protect against EMP if the tower is so close that it penetrates because the signal is strong. But if you're far away - like half a mile or more from the tower - then odds are against it working as an EMP shield.
Question #2 - Do you have a perfect seal when the lid is on, as in full contact all around? If not, then it's not a good shield - you could aluminum foil wrap it if you can guarantee no holes.
Question #3 - Is the outside of your electronics 100% plastic? Insulation matters -but plastic outside = insulation. You have to cover up metal parts.
Question #4 - What metal is it made out of? Different materials have different dB ratings at different frequencies. Overall, copper is best - but that doesn't seem like it's copper.

Hope that helps!

Joel
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8 Posts
Discussion Starter · #17 ·
@BBTrucks.com - The tower's not right next to your house, so it's likely your pot isn't effective, despite it being Stainless Steel. I would see if you can aluminum foil the area around the lid. You can wrap the whole thing or just the seal. If that doesn't work - remember, you can't have any holes - then yea, I wouldn't use it for EMP protection. You could also use the foil by itself if you wrap it enough.

That said, the pot COULD work - there's just no way short of testing to tell, because you'd have no idea what decibel rating the pot is. I wouldn't worry about the GPS - if you can't block the GPS AND the regular cell signal, it doesn't matter - they can trace your location just by having the cell phone on. When it connects, they can triangulate the location based on the time it takes the waves to hit 3 separate cell phone towers, so they know where you are. Unless you have my product, of course! :D Just kidding - but I WOULD highly encourage you to look at the various cell phone Faraday bags out there and compare price and decibel rating for 1 mHz to 1 gHz. The higher the better. Anything with about 20 dB is pretty useless when it comes to cell blocking so don't bother using it - basically that would work if you are, for example, miles away from the tower. You want 70-80+ decibels, especially at <1000 feet from the tower. I would say you probably need the strongest bag available, which actually does happen to be my kit because it has essentially 3 layers instead of the usual 1 layer - in my own admittedly biased opinion of course.

Joel
 
1 - 17 of 17 Posts
Top