[keithhr]

I am installing my 8kw generac natural gas generator next week, first the gas line to my backyard and then the auto transfer switch to
my downstairs room behind my power panel. From what I understand, gas, being under pressure doesn't need any power to deliver it. I need some kind storage for water and lastly food. I'm thinking possibly 32 gallon plastic garbage cans with a water stabilizer. Anything labeled water storage is really expensive, what a rip. If anyone has an idea what kind of non toxic liner I could use would be appreciated.
Everyone thinks I am crazy, but the possibility of a prolong power outage is scary. Within a week, chaos and anarchy will reign. I might have to bring in a friend in for security purposes. I've got a nice ammunition supply and weapons.
What are people doing for food storage? I probably shouldn't have to wait on food, I'm thinking canned foods because my small garage freezer would just be temporary.

 

[Montana Rancher]

"I only plan to use electricity to charge my good collection of lithium ion, nimh, and D batteris for lanterns. I'm not planning on running household items like a
refrigerator because there will be no food to put in it."

You are confusing my Keithhr

If you only want to charge batteries your solution is WAY OVER KILL. You could charge enough batteries for lanterns with a 15w panel buried in your yard wrapped in aluminum foil to protect against solar flares. (total expense $80)

1. Natural gas needs to be pressurized by the utilities and will not work in a EMP/solar flare situation, if the grid goes down so do the pumps, i.e. no power. The Propane solution is best as you own the pressure/power.

2. To keep a few lights in your home going it takes almost NOTHING to do that, if you have 48 AA batteries in your freezer you will last a year.

3. I am planning to live off the grid AND run freezers, refrigerator and my 220v water well pump and only have a 4.5kw generator, do some more research.

 

[paraquack]

Natural Gas under pressure in the pipes gets under pressure from big compressors. If the power outage is long enough, it will shut you down eventually.

 

[longrider]

Welcome Kiethhr. This discussion is fascinating. I didn't plan to have electric. I have ammasses a bunch of candles from garage sales and some thrift stores. I've got the crank up flashlights and lanterns, a hand crank emergency radio and other than that, I don't plan on any electric. I will use root cellar for canning storage, etc. I'm not counting on any vehicles to run. I'm also stocking extra shoes, boots, socks, etc. Wool socks; I love them. Don't want to run out. And work gloves. I never thought about having electricity.
Wouldn't you give yourself/your stores away with generator motor sounds? And lights in your house? Wouldn't that make you a target? That is, if you live in town or close to a major highway. Seriously asking. I'm trying to think worst case scenario.

 

[paraquack]

Double check the natural gas in your area, keithhr. Something has to pressurize the gas in the pipes. Usually a electrically driven compressors. The compressors for Chicago area are located about 100 miles away. They are unbelievably huge, so much you can feel the vibration in the ground a few miles away. I don't have any way to know, but eventually the pressure goes to zero and the pipes stop working if they loose power too. Propane tanks are bulky but at least you know what you got. If the SHTF, traffic will eventually be snarled causing people to leave their vehicles. That would create thousands of little gas supplies all over the place. I wouldn't put all my eggs in one basket. Water turning a generator, a generator (gas or gasoline or diesel) wind turbine, solar panels, wood gassification system, etc. need to be thought about.

 

[IngaLisa]

I am pretty much counting on living like it was 1850.

 

[Inor]

The only thing I really care about electricity for is refrigeration. But, I recall a tour that we took of Ft. Bowie in SE Arizona a few years ago. The tour guide was talking about how they used to refrigerate meat and even make ice cream using a chemical reaction of ammonium-nitrate and something else. Of course, I forgot the something else and have looked far and wide in my Ft Bowie history books and cannot find it. But if I could figure this one out it would sure make my preps easier. If they were able to absorb enough heat to make ice cream in the middle of the desert in the early 1800's, that is a technique that I really want to add to my bag of tricks.

 

[paraquack]

Ammonium-nitrate and water

 

[Inor]

Ammonium-nitrate and water

You're kidding right? I am that stupid? There go my plans for being Supreme Overlord.

 

[paraquack]

I believe what you're talking about is used in commercial cold packs for first aid kits contain two chambers, one containing water and one containing ammonium nitrate (NH4NO3) or ammonium chloride (NH4Cl). When you squeeze the cold pack, the inner bags break allowing the water and NH4NO3 to combine creating a cold NH4NO3/water solution.

The thing that is a bit unusual here we have a highly endothermic chemical process that proceeds spontaneously. An endothermic process is one that consumes heat – as opposed to an exothermic process which liberates heat. Solid NH4NO3 dissolves in water in 2 steps: Step 1) the ionic bond in NH4NO3 is broken – a process that requires heat and Step 2) the hydration of free NH4+ and NO3- ions – a process that generates heat. In the case of the cold pack, more heat is required to drive Step 1 than is given off in Step 2 – this heat comes from the water thereby making the NH4NO3/water solution cold.

Might be hard to get in any quantity. Guess what you get when you mix ammonium-nitrate with diesel fuel? Timothy McVeigh and 40 years

 

[Inor]

I believe what you're talking about is used in commercial cold packs for first aid kits contain two chambers, one containing water and one containing ammonium nitrate (NH4NO3) or ammonium chloride (NH4Cl). When you squeeze the cold pack, the inner bags break allowing the water and NH4NO3 to combine creating a cold NH4NO3/water solution.

The thing that is a bit unusual here we have a highly endothermic chemical process that proceeds spontaneously. An endothermic process is one that consumes heat - as opposed to an exothermic process which liberates heat. Solid NH4NO3 dissolves in water in 2 steps: Step 1) the ionic bond in NH4NO3 is broken - a process that requires heat and Step 2) the hydration of free NH4+ and NO3- ions - a process that generates heat. In the case of the cold pack, more heat is required to drive Step 1 than is given off in Step 2 - this heat comes from the water thereby making the NH4NO3/water solution cold.

Yes, yes, yes! That is that "one snippet" of information that makes my time here worthwhile! You may (please) make fun of me if you will. I am just a dumb computer dork and have too many meaningless bits and bytes crashing around in my head. But this is the type of info that will allow guys like us to prosper while the sheep wallow. Thank-you so much!

Ammonium-nitrate is an easy compound to acquire (at least in less concentrated forms) from manure.