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I have been shooting the breeze with our new running buddy, Oswegoscott. The gentleman is intellectually agile and well-studied. His presence says a lot about the forum, if you ask me.

Anyhow, we've been kicking around a depressing conversation through PMs, and I think it is a good time to bring it out for others to add.

Nothing happens by coincidence when we are talking about governments and nations. Entities are working behind the scenes, driving nations in directions that are bad for the citizenry, but good for themselves. Reading beyond propaganda and looking at facts, and only facts, will cause even the most ardent of party supporters to question the forces behind current events.

Here is the question to kick around...

"They" seem to be preparing for something big, and it seems to be something big and something soon. What do you think it is?

I'm going to wait a few to give my notions...
 

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I believe the leaders in office will lie right up to the bitter end, like the band on the Titanic. The problem I’m having is the news on some of the sites that people are quoting on this forum is not matching what I’m seeing. I do believe that something is in the mix but not sure what yet. I had to go to training called, “Make a kit, and have a plan” but it’s the same training source that presented using scissors for self defense.
 

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I dont want to sound like the idiot, but i will reply on the notion of my thoughts since the 2008 Election. I have always voted and had my 2 cents, but, never have I been more concerned about this country as I did at this time. Before Obama became our countrys leader (a president helps build and strenghten), I watched as he campaigned and saw past the fasaude. Something about the way he carries himself just really didnt sit right. At that time I just had a million things running through my head! What was this man up to. Everyone knows that over a few generations that we have been up against the middle east. I truely believe that this all revolves around that. Just one more attack but in a different manner. One in which the people are not blantantly killed or manipulated. Just a slow deterioration. And what will come as a result of that is the economic collapse, our relations with other countries and our vulnerablity to them. Once we are no longer a force to be reckoned with, will our allies still be our allies? Once our dollar isnt worth shit, what really will we have and who will actually back us?? Once our military has been wiped dry, who will fight for us? We are literally sitting ducks!!!
 

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A forced move to Socialism if they can't get us to go willingly . Nationalization of major business. The Constitution has been in the way of this , so we now see a move to just push it a side.
This is not a new movement it has been brewing in the education system for 60 years.
To make it happen they need to force people into major cities to live and work. This limits mobility. They must remove any form of defense we have. The take over of the education system has already happened . At first they work with the church but over time they push it a side.
They must down play the church in our life they are getting there. Break down any moral barriers and replace them with their own. The government must replace the family they been doing a fine job of that. Class warfare gives them power it will also be the excuse to take rights away . They cause the war then create the cure that they wanted to start with.
All the while they tell us how good it will be for us it will all be free.
What they have forgotten is our will to be free,the fight will not go as easy as they plan.
 

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I am old enough now to realize that a lot of misinformation is published by many. Before I can wrap my mind around something I do as much research as I can. Even some of that research I am skeptical of. Earlier on, there was a thread about the indoctrination of socialism in this country. Someone posted reference to "The Naked Communist" published in 1958 and something from Paul Harvey from 1964 if memory serves me correctly. Doing my due diligence, I could find nothing to dispute this and many items to confirm.

Many things have changed since I was a kid. I'm not talking about technology or anything man made. I am speaking of attitudes in general. There was a time when your neighbors would help with little question. One could leave your home unlocked and keys in the car. You could answer your door without hesitation or fear. If you lost something and someone else found it, it would be returned to you. Gun racks in your truck were the norm and not questioned. Your kids could safely play outdoors all day and you had little to worry about.

There were times when someone like FDR wanted to socialize the country but that died in DC, only a few would consider it. The majority couldn't even grasp this as an option. Now the playing field has changed. A long and slow indoctrination has taken place. We are on the cusp of losing what others have built here. A feeling of hopelessness has a death grip now. Many I talk too feel no matter what they say or do, nothing can and will change what's happening. Many feel that as long as it doesn't affect them too much then it's ok. People have been indoctrinated to believe that the gov will take care of them. They have been taught there is no personal responsibility. Lawyers have helped fuel that one also. I can be as stupid as I want and I can blame it on you.

We have been setup. We are about to loose everything our forefathers have built. We are being herded like sheep to slaughter. My problem is I don't like being bullied or pushed around. It used to happen when I was a kid but I learned how to stop it. This will be the same. I have been sitting behind a desk too long and have little in the way of extra energy anymore. I'm too old and too fat to be a soldier but I won't go down with a whimper. I will go out the way I came into this world, kickin and screamin.
 

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I think we may all be surprised about how the take over will happen.

History tells us that a war will be started, either by us or by some extremists. Maybe Israel and Iran then NK. Liberal fascists love wars like we had with ww1, the banana wars and ww2 as it gives them mandates to ration, confiscate and dictate. Woodrow Wilson during his tenure was as close to a dictator as we've ever had. He makes Obama look like a right wing guy. Read about what he did and it would shock you. The only saving grace for America is that although we are all about a "war effort", when its over, leave us alone; at least we were back then.

Our country and work ethic was different then in that Wilson was voted out and we wanted our country back. It lasted until FDR when it happened again with the liberal fascists. After ww2 we again, due to the work ethic and morals back then, return to a "somewhat" normal country. I say "somewhat" because obviously the progressive/communist programs were started and continued. We weren't really challenged again with liberal fascism again until the 60's. We are again being challenged.

50+ years ago we had different people. We didn't have 50% of the population not paying taxes. We didn't have all the welfare babies and massive debt we have now. We didn't have the massive federal programs and all the dependent people. We didn't have obamacare.

So where I'm going with this is war against another country and the government taking over everything for the effort. And patriotic people will go along. If not, the FEMA camps for the subversives... Similar to what Wilson did. But the big difference is that after this war, the government of the liberal fascists won't recede back to normalcy but will continue with the nationalization of America for the "greater good".

History is showing this very clearly. If we go to war or are sucked into a war (middle east, Asia, etc), watch out. I predict it will happen soon; during the current reign. We will fight the war but in the end, lose our nation or face another war internally.

Apologies for the long post....

Ps, just to be clear, I'm not talking about anything like Iraq or Afghanistan. Although those are hard fought wars with our brave men and women, they were skirmishes of a regional nature. What I'm talking about will involve multiple countries on multiple fronts and even on US soil via terrorist attacks.
 

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I dont know whats going and I dont care whats going on. What I am doing is fighting against. Call it Rage Against the Machine. Im a bit younger then some and still have fight left in me. I dont contribute to the current form of government. No Im not a taker but I dont contribute to its prosperity and I fight it at every opportunity. Not with violence because thats not what we are about. We are peaceful., and only want a return to our original Constitution and the Rights it guarantees. There will not be an end to the fight till this happens or God forbid it escalates into a shooting thing.
 

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I think we are witnessing the end of finance capitalism. Everything that has been happening since the end of World War II has been the result of lenders extending credit to businesses (and government) and getting interest paid to them in return for the loans.

Then the laws were changed to allow Wall Street to get ordinary people invested in the stock market through 401(K) plans, so they could tap into a whole new market and charge fees and commissions on the accounts, greatly expanding their wealth. Then the laws were changed again allowing deregulation of mortgage backed securities and Wall Street bundled up subprime loans and sold them off in Europe, and then people started to default on these loans they never should have gotten in the first place. The lenders got the government to bail them out of the bad loans (along with their insurers) and the loans were supposed to be modified so people could stay in their houses. But instead, the banks (who never had to account for where the bailout money went) just began to foreclose on the bad loans instead. So they had no risks because the taxpayers bailed them out, and now they dump the bad loans, kick people into the street, and sell their collateral.

For the lenders and Wall Street, the party never ended, it just got a little less wild.

Now, no one is borrowing money. Ordinary people struggle to find loans and people who can get loans (businesses and creditworthy people) do not want to go into debt. Instead, they are deleveraging (paying off loans).

The ordinary public also got out of the stock market, and paid off their debt as much as possible.

So, now the use of homes as ATMs to borrow against homeowners' equity has dried up, most people who can afford to borrow money don't want loans, the middle class cannot get loans unless they meet strict underwriting requirements, and people are now saving money and staying home. So now businesses are hurting and failing, because they have lost too many customers.

So, the lenders turn to the government to fill in the role of the consumers. Higher deficits become the normal way to operate, and government is forced to spend to keep the economy going. And the lenders loan the government money so they can keep collecting interest.

But the debt keeps growing, the deficit keeps getting larger, taxes keep increasing, and pretty soon the path we are on becomes utterly unsustainable.

The U.S. is already bankrupt. Add in its unfunded liabilities (entitlements) and it can only pay off the debt in decades from now.

But it can still print money. The Federal Reserve has tripled the supply of money in circulation, but the economy is still barely responding.

The Fed is out of options. Monetary policy cannot fix fiscal policy problems.

So, either they keep taxing and spending and bury our youth under a mountain of debt, or they cut entitlements, impose austerity measures, and trigger riots when the entitlements get slashed.

The truth is they cannot solve the problem without cutting spending and increasing taxes. They need more income (taxes, and revenue) and less debt (invoices to pay and checks to write). But they do not want to do this now.

So the can keeps getting kicked down the road.

But one day the piper will have to be paid.

One day, taxes will be high, benefits will be cut, and people who paid into government programs all their lives will not get what they have been promised.

When that happens, when the realization sets in that the way out of this mess will be carried on the backs of the workers, business owners, government employees, and people dependent upon government benefits, and the wealthy as well, on that day, there will be riots in the street, as soon as they seek to impose what has become inescapable as the end game.

Don't believe me? Look at Greece.

Don't think they will slam the wealthy? Look at France, and 75% tax rates!

It will happen slowly, and will be done incrementally. That is clearly the plan. How's your paycheck looking this year? They increased taxes on the entire country, yes, even the middle class, by 2%. Inflation, the hidden tax, is being data manipulated to appears to be 2 to 3 percent. The reality is it is closer to 10%, but the sheeple believe the lies.

Real unemployment 12.5% minimum - 50% among black youths, 25% for college grads, or worse. We would have bread lines and soup kitchens everywhere, but instead people get SNAP debit cards. 46 million on food stamps. Only jobs are service industry jobs, and seasonal retail, and some manufacturing rehiring.

There will come a day when people realize they have been misled. There will be civil unrest, and riots are probable. The day will dawn when the politicians have to tell the ugly truth to a pissed off electorate.

And then we will vote them all out of office and have to start over. In the meantime, tensions will build, and may not remain completely controllable.

The only other way out - a huge war. And that is what I actually think is coming, and it will start in the Middle East between Iran and Israel.

Just how I see things, from my porch up here on the ridge top. I could be wrong. But I think I am right.
 

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Christianity has been onto the evil lefty maggots for a long time-

"This is the last hour; and as you have heard that the antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come" (1 John 2:18 )

"Wars, rumours of wars, false christs, earthquakes, famines, persecutions, darkened sun and moon, falling stars, shaken planets.
Pray that this will not take place in winter, because those will be days of distress unequaled from the beginning until now, and never to be equaled again.
If the Lord had not cut short those days, no one would survive.
Be on guard! Be alert! You do not know when that time will come.
What I say to you, I say to everyone: 'Watch!"- (Jesus of Nazareth, Mark ch 13)


 

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I have to agree with Inceptor. The slow introduction of ideas once thought heretical has changed the mindset of the masses. Individually, people might say in the recesses of their minds "I'm opposed to that" but then outwardly they say the opposite over fear of being labeled by their peers on the left. I'm thinking back to when I was in high school... and can't remember a single pregnant girl in school. That's not to say it didn't happen... but there was a stigma to it and those girls were pulled from school and home-schooled or sent to what we called "high school 3". Nowadays... being pregnant and unmarried is a social norm and no one... except the older generation, thinks anything of it. The same with being gay... it was rare back then... but is a social fad now. Honestly? Why do I need to know about your private sex life? Being gay is a sexual preference... not a lifestyle. Whether you are gay or straight, we buy the same cars, shop at the same Wal-mart, eat at the same restaurants, both wait in long lines to see the latest blockbuster movie. But... I don't run around telling everyone what my wife and I do in the bedroom. But now... sex (whether straight or gay) has become a norm in our everyday lives. Condom or "get it up" commercials are common during dinner hour TV. Reality TV has taken over... and it's no longer about hard working people... it's about normalizing non-standard (what we used to call deviant) behavior.

Our work ethic is changing as well. Remember the TVA? Remember when the average American said "I'd rather work my butt off for half pay... knowing I earned it myself... than live off the government"? Now... we hear "I can't find a job that pays me what I'm worth." And... those people sit at home watching TV while living off our taxes... and aren't ashamed of it.

Now on to gov't.... we used to have a different view here as well... Gov't used to be for the people. Government provided for the "general welfare." Now... it takes from those generally providing and just gives welfare. And... we all see it as a moral duty to take care of those in need. Now... being Catholic, I believe in social justice.... but Catholic social justice and Liberal social justice are two different things. Catholics, like all decent human beings, believe in human dignity. We understand that sometimes people fall... and sometimes it's their own fault. But... we help them back up on their feet and help them become productive members of society. Liberal social justice says "Oh poor you... let's take care of you... we'll take from those that we decide have too much and will give it to you. We realize you are a product of your environment and how you were raised and don't blame you. Just take this hefty check and get better. We'll keep giving you money as long as you need it. What? Oh sure... you can buy cigarettes and alcohol with it. You obviously need some type of stress relief to get over the abuse society has heaped on you."

And... we the people... now see this as OK. We have been taught that taking from the evil successful people to take care of those that don't take care of themselves is the moral thing to do. But what came next? What's happening now? We let gov't take over the role of charity and let them take care of "the people"... and now they are "taking care of us" for our own good. They pass law after law after law with ridiculous ease... and all because they are taking care of the people. If someone gets hurt with a gun... ban guns. If some idiot jumps off a cliff, ban access to the cliff. If some kid drowns because the parents never taught him how to swim but left him unsupervised in a deep pool.... mandate that all swimmers must wear life jackets or face a $500 fine. If someone sits on their lazy ass and watches TV all day and eats potato chips... mandate that sodas are no longer allowed in school. And... we accept it. It's just a small thing here... a small thing there. But one day... we will find ourselves locked in small padded rooms... because the gov't has decided we are safer there.

Common sense and logic no longer apply... and we the people are helping it happen.

We all accept law enforcement officers in our lives. We know they have been properly trained... and have sworn to uphold their State and the Federal Constitution. So... why is the trend now to take TSA agents... with little or no training... and no sworn oath... except to their paycheck... and place them in positions of authority over the citizens? Because... we the people allow it. We the people accept them as "official" and we the people follow their orders.

And... only we the people can stop this trend and take back our country. And... it will have to start with the Oath Keepers.

OK... enough of a rant. I'm done for now.
 

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I am old enough now to realize that a lot of misinformation is published by many. Before I can wrap my mind around something I do as much research as I can. Even some of that research I am skeptical of. Earlier on, there was a thread about the indoctrination of socialism in this country. Someone posted reference to "The Naked Communist" published in 1958 and something from Paul Harvey from 1964 if memory serves me correctly. Doing my due diligence, I could find nothing to dispute this and many items to confirm.

Many things have changed since I was a kid. I'm not talking about technology or anything man made. I am speaking of attitudes in general. There was a time when your neighbors would help with little question. One could leave your home unlocked and keys in the car. You could answer your door without hesitation or fear. If you lost something and someone else found it, it would be returned to you. Gun racks in your truck were the norm and not questioned. Your kids could safely play outdoors all day and you had little to worry about.

There were times when someone like FDR wanted to socialize the country but that died in DC, only a few would consider it. The majority couldn't even grasp this as an option. Now the playing field has changed. A long and slow indoctrination has taken place. We are on the cusp of losing what others have built here. A feeling of hopelessness has a death grip now. Many I talk too feel no matter what they say or do, nothing can and will change what's happening. Many feel that as long as it doesn't affect them too much then it's ok. People have been indoctrinated to believe that the gov will take care of them. They have been taught there is no personal responsibility. Lawyers have helped fuel that one also. I can be as stupid as I want and I can blame it on you.

We have been setup. We are about to loose everything our forefathers have built. We are being herded like sheep to slaughter. My problem is I don't like being bullied or pushed around. It used to happen when I was a kid but I learned how to stop it. This will be the same. I have been sitting behind a desk too long and have little in the way of extra energy anymore. I'm too old and too fat to be a soldier but I won't go down with a whimper. I will go out the way I came into this world, kickin and screamin.
Amen, you said it!!!
 

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I was lucky enough to grow up in the 1950's/60's when everybody saw things in clear black and white, but later generations of kids have been brought up by lefty teachers and The World to think there are always grey areas to be debated and discussed, and that teachers and the government "knows best".
As a result kids today are growing up semi-neurotic, wimpy and unsure of themselves like robots unable to think for themselves.
After all, The World wants easily-controlled robots, there ya go!
If I had kids I'd homeschool them myself rather than entrust them to lefty dickwit teachers for years of their precious young lives.
Hey Mr. Wayne does anybody control you?

"That'll be the day.."
 

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I think no matter what numbers they throw at us people are felling like there is something wrong and it's not getting better. Maybe there are human cycles just like everything else in nature. Take some of the great empires in the past and they all had a lot of parallels. One being society itself started to collapse and finally like Rome they would try to maintain there current lifestyle by creating more money to pay for what they thought were the necessaries. Now as has been mentioned on another thread you have state government official asking their government to make a plan in case our economy falls. Virginia want to be able to make their own currency and Texas is looking into being able to go it alone if the government fails. Now the deficit keeps getting bigger and more money is printed to buy our own debt. Personally I think the ball has been kicked so far down the road that it really didn't matter who became president. But worries me the most is that we have a president that actual looks forward to a crisis to use for his own gains.
 

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OK, here are my thoughts. A bit disjointed, not in sequence worth a spit, but my thoughts.

The "sides" played against each other are either two hands of the same body with puppets or, at other times, the zealous or unstable regimes or organizations being played for their worth. Industry built around these global dances, fortunes made and power consolidated, populations rallied around flags to which the elite pay lip service while amassing wealth and building chalets in regions considered enemy territory for the misled commoners. As long as "we" (pick your side) are righteous and good while "they" (any other side but yours) are unwashed and out to get us, "we" will remain on our toes and forget the little inconsistencies in the drama because, after all, no one can deny that the other side is evil.

So then came the easy debt through credit cards. At first, only those who "didn't need a credit card could have a credit card." Not to long afterward, anyone could have a card and live beyond their means.
Income for the commoners in America began to stagnate, but the credit card allowed people to live like the commercials told them to live. Families began to feel the squeeze and bankruptcies set people back, but all was well as long as items were purchased and the economy and the wars were good for the corporations while banks were able to absorb the problem families.

Then came the great GATT/NAFTA caper, where both parties told the American citizens that it was good that old jobs left for new lands, so newer, higher paying high tech jobs could take their places. Only, those jobs never came. Even customer service numbers are answered by people who live in other countries and barely speak English when the voracious American consumers call for assistance with their high tech gadgets that were bought with credit cards.

All the while consumers are purchasing items made overseas by corporations that once were the American flagships of manufacturing might, making these purchases while incomes are stagnant, the markets are wildly betting on trends. Cash is made by the wily while equally greedy workers spend more time checking on their 401(k) accounts than they do working the remaining jobs, until yet another financial hazard strikes. Banks owned by the right entities are declared too big to fail and their debt is charged to the futures of the living citizens unborn grandchildren.

The economy never gets better, but this is no secret to those who choreograph the rise and fall of nations. Christmases come and go, high ticket items bought in accordance with the commercial ads which are continuously telling the TV viewers what they must do and buy in order to be truly loved and admired by their friends and family. Behind the scenes, the central bank of America (Federal Reserve) works feverishly to devalue the dollar, igniting global currency wars while causing nations to look for alternatives to the petrodollar as the global reserve currency. America deteriorates.

Finally, the demoralized and undisciplined American citizenry elect a president who doesn't even pretend to swear allegiance to the nation but firmly believes in the global vision while despising the notion of American exceptionalism. The bankers rejoice while incredible debt is heaped upon the American nation. All the while, the elite, who swear allegiance to no flag or nation, prepare for the inevitable days of transition and turmoil; the days when, through chaos, power and rule are solidified.

All that crushing debt, that debt that was accrued by banks too large to fail and by unreasonable grants to other countries and military meddling in other regions and the picking up of debts of other nations? Oh, yeah, forgot about that. Doesn't matter. Not to the elites who swear no allegiance to flags or nations. America will be held responsible for that crushing debt, and the survivors of the financial and social chaos that ensues when the financial walls come tumbling down will be enslaved by invading nations. The survivors will be the cheap labor for the manufacture of tennis shoes.

Now, for the love of children and for our safety from terrorists, turn in your weapons for a 50 dollar gift certificate.
 

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Since I'm not PC and getting older I would like to agree with some here but I am tired of so many taking a step back to think things over and come up with a solution in a nice way, sounds great doesn't it, but hows it working out so far? I can see now that gun control will never happen in this country, the democrats are running scared and giving up on that idea :wink:. Our debt is almost paid off and healthcare problems are a thing of the past, the border is secure and illegals are doing the right thing now, finally! We have cut unemployment down to a manageable number and taxes are going down again. Please lets all take a step back and rejoice at the great economy. :razz:

Ok, BS over, time to take the gloves off and give the government what for, tell the liberals to pound sand. Time to kick some ass and get the country on the right track. Lets stop kidding ourselves that we're going to agree and get along, NOT. The government is getting ready and some citizens are, but most still want compromise but the government doesn't compromise and I don't want compromise. I want my rights and a life to live as I legally can/should. Time for citizens to agree to allow those whom want to live free to do so either as citizens of a United U.S. or let them secede or lets have the actual fight and let the winner decide.
 

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Well I like most of the folks who post here. Even a few I disagree with have been respectful or tried to be. Probably after I post this - that might change. I first read a book about economic collapse in 1993/4. I was working for the US Government at that time, was very proud of my work and people in government thanked me for my service routinely. I protected them. I served in that service for a number of years and heard things us normal people are not suppose to hear; but never was one of those things so daunting as to support the scenerio "something" is up for all of us. My brother thinks like just about everyone I've read on this thread, the sky is about to fall, they know it, getting ready for it, etc. Maybe, just maybe, because I've settled a bug out property, can easily self sustain and even grow, I don't fear it and thus don't see it happening like my fellow preppers. I can't see how printing 85 billion a month is good for us in the long haul, I can't see this ship sailing forever like most do, but I think the "powers that be" and the 1%ers et al - have too much to lose to let it collapse. What good is it to take all the gold if you can't buy the latest gadgets, hottest looking girls, and professional athletes, etc etc.,etc. I think they will keep it going, not sure i can tell you how, and not how I'd like it but I do think they will keep us in this way of life - for the rest of our lives.
 

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I am old enough now to realize that a lot of misinformation is published by many. Before I can wrap my mind around something I do as much research as I can. Even some of that research I am skeptical of. Earlier on, there was a thread about the indoctrination of socialism in this country. Someone posted reference to "The Naked Communist" published in 1958 and something from Paul Harvey from 1964 if memory serves me correctly. Doing my due diligence, I could find nothing to dispute this and many items to confirm.

Many things have changed since I was a kid. I'm not talking about technology or anything man made. I am speaking of attitudes in general. There was a time when your neighbors would help with little question. One could leave your home unlocked and keys in the car. You could answer your door without hesitation or fear. If you lost something and someone else found it, it would be returned to you. Gun racks in your truck were the norm and not questioned. Your kids could safely play outdoors all day and you had little to worry about.

There were times when someone like FDR wanted to socialize the country but that died in DC, only a few would consider it. The majority couldn't even grasp this as an option. Now the playing field has changed. A long and slow indoctrination has taken place. We are on the cusp of losing what others have built here. A feeling of hopelessness has a death grip now. Many I talk too feel no matter what they say or do, nothing can and will change what's happening. Many feel that as long as it doesn't affect them too much then it's ok. People have been indoctrinated to believe that the gov will take care of them. They have been taught there is no personal responsibility. Lawyers have helped fuel that one also. I can be as stupid as I want and I can blame it on you.

We have been setup. We are about to loose everything our forefathers have built. We are being herded like sheep to slaughter. My problem is I don't like being bullied or pushed around. It used to happen when I was a kid but I learned how to stop it. This will be the same. I have been sitting behind a desk too long and have little in the way of extra energy anymore. I'm too old and too fat to be a soldier but I won't go down with a whimper. I will go out the way I came into this world, kickin and screamin.
Ditto
 

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I think they will keep it going, not sure i can tell you how, and not how I'd like it but I do think they will keep us in this way of life - for the rest of our lives.
I do hope you're right. I honestly do. But I do believe you're wrong. The 1% will thrive no matter what. If there is only the rich and poor, little to no middle class, those same people will still be able to buy what they want. Look at the old USSR. The elite there did what they wanted while the rest barely survived. This will be no different.

This level of spending cannot go on forever. Look at Greece and Portugal. No country can sustain that level of subsidies. France has raised taxes to 75% on the rich. The rich in France are leaving in droves.

Socialized medicine is breaking the bank in places. I remember reading somewhere that it cost Canada 40% of their budget. Some people are fed up with the healthcare system in Canada and they are considering some privatization of medicine there. I know of one person who's grandmother was Canadian. This grandmother died while waiting her turn for surgery. She had been waiting for over a year.

I also believe the socialist's won't be satisfied until they control everything. Banks, business, healthcare should all be under their control. They believe all should be equal whether they choose to work or not. Look at Venezuela. Venezuela used to be a thriving nation then came Hugo Chavez and socialism. Now the shelves in the stores are bare. They think we should be guided by them in every part of our lives. So what if you don't feel like working, you should still be equal with those who do.
 

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If I went through this thread, quoted and highlighted every thing I have read this afternoon and agreed with, I'd have a post almost as long as the thread is currently. There has been a tremendous amount of excellent posts. My thoughts, based upon my Christian beliefs is that we have allowed, for decades, for God to be removed from our society by our government and our complacency and now in the year of our "Leader" AO '05 we've nearly got it done and we are now paying for it. The frog never realizes that it's in hot water until it's cooked. FYI. Presidents violating our Constitution did't start with FDR or Wilson, it started with Abraham Lincoln.
 
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