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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I was out moving some cows to stalls for a vet's visit today and one leaned against a gate and smashed my hand. So now I'm back in the house drinking a nice hot coffee and waiting for my wife to put a few stitches in my hand. I used super glue out in the barn but I think it needs more than that. So I thought I would take this time to ask you guys a question.

I don't follow this stuff really close, so I may be out in left field here . . . but as I understand it the fiscal cliff is nothing more than a time deadline at the end of 2012 when our taxes are raised and the government spending is reduced. If there is more to it than that I'm not aware.

Well, our terrible government leadership over the past 20 or more years has caused this tremendous situation by a total lack of self discipline when it comes to spending. We spend entirely too much money and when we run out we simply print more. Which reduces the value of the money that we do have. So in the long run nothing is gained. The voting citizens have allowed this to go on and on and on for many years until we're in some really deep do-do. So even though our legislators have done the wild spending and wild government growth, "we the people" are also guilty of not putting a stop to it. Actually I think we sort of enjoy all the big spending as it provides us with govt. bureaus on top of govt. bureaus (which results in millions of govt. employees with big paychecks), spending programs that give us useless crap, and spending billions on foreign aid which makes us think that we are so wonderful and philanthropic. "We the people" also have done absolutely nothing to stop the USA from becoming the police force of the world. Trillions of our tax dollars (not to mention our own people's lives) are spent every year blowing up towns and killing people in other countries. So I think "we the people" AND the government have to share the blame for the grave situation we are in today.

So now to my questions.
1. Shouldn't we have to belly up to the bar and pay for our run-away spending? "We the people" spent it.
2. Shouldn't we make the government cut back drastically on spending? We could easily do away with more than half of the non-essential government offices and redundant bureaus. We could lay off 90% of the IRS with the Fair Tax.
3. Shouldn't we stop all Chinese imports? We could put the laid off government employees back to work. Oh my god! A government employee having to do some actual work - that's a shock.

It's the only way to start a long and painful march down the road to recovery as I see it. Am I missing something here?
 

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I would say you are pretty well informed. Except along with printing money comes inflation. The more $ in circulation, the less its worth. Also, we are borrowing almost 47% of what we spend. Add in interest for who knows how long? Right now, the cliff is the best way to go because its the only plan that has any real cuts. The dems claim their old smoke and mirror " base line cutting' which is a farce. Base line cuts example: A budget for welfare for 2012 was $350 Bil. They plan on increasing it to $400 billion, but will "cut" the spending to $375 billion. So they claim a $25 billion cut , when it is actually a $25 Billion increase in spending. Apply that to all of the budget items and now you understand their stupidity. Real cuts are whats needed, but it takes leaders with integrity and courage to do that. We seem to be fresh out of those kind of leaders.
 

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My knowledge of the Fiscal cliff is the House was suppose to send the Bill with all the cuts to the Senate yesterday. They said on Wednesday that was there intention. I am only glad that the House is sticking to there legislative duties.
 

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So now to my questions.
1. Shouldn't we have to belly up to the bar and pay for our run-away spending? "We the people" spent it.
2. Shouldn't we make the government cut back drastically on spending? We could easily do away with more than half of the non-essential government offices and redundant bureaus. We could lay off 90% of the IRS with the Fair Tax.
3. Shouldn't we stop all Chinese imports? We could put the laid off government employees back to work. Oh my god! A government employee having to do some actual work - that's a shock.

It's the only way to start a long and painful march down the road to recovery as I see it. Am I missing something here?
Belly up to the bar? if I understand it correctly our bar tab in taxes for just 2012 alone is a bit over 12,000 per person. So a familiy of four would pay in excess of 48,000, thats just federal...when you add state, property sales taxes in on top of that along with the taxes passed along in the expense of consumer goods. Thats a huge bar tab...might want to start looking in the cushions for change...and hope you find some...

Yes they should cut back, but cutting back is not in the cards with this administration, it's not in their nature, our government no longer reflects traditional family values of thrify and economy. They may give lip service to it but they don't follow it. They resist the suggestion that they need to cut back.

China...they now hold about 4 trillion in american debt... more precisely debt generated by government spending. There was a time as comsumers we could have stopped buying chinese imports, but that time has past, our sense of thrift and economy at the family level was our undoing in that regard.

It' isn't the number of government employees thats the problem, their wages are a drop in the bucket. It's what those employees are spending our tax dollars on that is the problem. Unfortunately we are like the patient in a coma on life support and the government is like the doctor fighting to keep us alive so they can keep billing the family...There is no surviving this scenario, at some point the plug gets pulled. The government is just as screwed as we are...when it becomes apparent that the middle class is tapped out and can no longer underwrite their power to spend...It will get interesting.
 

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It would likely be best to let the cliff fall and get it over with. Any continuation of the status quo is gonna only extend the depression for the average personand while the rich get richer we will unduly suffer. Let them feel that cut in spending along with us.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Belly up to the bar? if I understand it correctly our bar tab in taxes for just 2012 alone is a bit over 12,000 per person. So a familiy of four would pay in excess of 48,000, thats just federal...when you add state, property sales taxes in on top of that along with the taxes passed along in the expense of consumer goods. Thats a huge bar tab...might want to start looking in the cushions for change...and hope you find some...<snip>
The longest journey starts with just one step.
 

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The totals you present are right about $12k pp, but about 9k pp is paid. We aren't paying the other 3k, but are creating it out of thin air and then owing it to its creator the FED. Situation can go in until the world decides we've created to many dollars and they aren't worth much. Then this will be a most popular forum.

Belly up to the bar? if I understand it correctly our bar tab in taxes for just 2012 alone is a bit over 12,000 per person. So a familiy of four would pay in excess of 48,000, thats just federal...when you add state, property sales taxes in on top of that along with the taxes passed along in the expense of consumer goods. Thats a huge bar tab...might want to start looking in the cushions for change...and hope you find some...

Yes they should cut back, but cutting back is not in the cards with this administration, it's not in their nature, our government no longer reflects traditional family values of thrify and economy. They may give lip service to it but they don't follow it. They resist the suggestion that they need to cut back.

China...they now hold about 4 trillion in american debt... more precisely debt generated by government spending. There was a time as comsumers we could have stopped buying chinese imports, but that time has past, our sense of thrift and economy at the family level was our undoing in that regard.

It' isn't the number of government employees thats the problem, their wages are a drop in the bucket. It's what those employees are spending our tax dollars on that is the problem. Unfortunately we are like the patient in a coma on life support and the government is like the doctor fighting to keep us alive so they can keep billing the family...There is no surviving this scenario, at some point the plug gets pulled. The government is just as screwed as we are...when it becomes apparent that the middle class is tapped out and can no longer underwrite their power to spend...It will get interesting.
 

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I know very little, if anything, about this subject. However, I heard about QE4 being implemented last week. Isn't that just "kicking the can" further down the road to avoid the inevitable? Or, is printing money out of thin air actually going to help us?
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
I know very little, if anything, about this subject. However, I heard about QE4 being implemented last week. Isn't that just "kicking the can" further down the road to avoid the inevitable? Or, is printing money out of thin air actually going to help us?
"Kicking the can down the road" is spot on, trainershawn. We MUST stop spending.
 

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I think the bigger question is what's at the bottom? How will the cliff influence the price of goods and services? Will it have any impact on the grid? I've found myself worrying about how much to prepare for this than I have worried about anything else since I decided to become a prepper.

I know the basics of 3 days worth of food and water is a given, and I have that. What do you think about the long term though?
 

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The current white house spent more in one year than all the president sens Washington. No reporting on that. On top of that most of it was wasted and the company's it went to bankrupt all ready.
free phones to voters, food stamps for Mexico it goes on and on. We went over it a few years back just now we need to deal with it.
Do you realize that Obama has not passed a budget sense he has been in office. I was called a lair on that one by a union rep he still thinks Obama has passed a balanced budget every year he has not had one budget at all.
Obama has had tha plan to force socialism on us and we are just about there.
 
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