Oh! I get it. You want me to read what you mean not what you write.Your obviously one of those! It was a joke and next time I will try and make it more clear for you because your a little slow
Ignorant Property Associations
At the bequest of my wife we took a drive last weekend. We stopped at a "golf and country club" in the Sierra Mountains - I'd say foothills but its really beyond them and in to the mountain range. It really is a beautiful property. They have suffered like any other and lots are available there for $495 now. They are about a half acre and were marked as we drove through the subdivision. This is a big subdivision / community. There are nearly 3000 homes already built and probably 500 or so empty lots left most of which are held by someone. They have a lot of nice amenities including an air strip / hangers, golf course (if you dig - I did in the past - not lately), SHOOTING RANGE (yeah baby), and all of the other typical stuff (tennis, pools, trails etc etc) and its on a lake too. As things go - this isn't bad. Its only 75 minutes from my primary residence AND its actually "on the way" to my BOL. Things were looking positive. So I started to do a tad bit of homework this week only to learn:
1) I can't build myself unless I"m a licensed contractor - thems' the rules.
2) No solar, no how, no way, even if I "hide" it - have to pay "the man" his PG&E rates to the extreme.
3) No generators if they can be heard by anyone - someone hears is - you lose it? Is that possible?
4) Must build 1200 minimum square feet and oh building permits start at about $15k - now you see why the lot is $495
5) And them dues - $158 a month for life - never goes away - doesn't even include property taxes.
Sorry honey, I'll build you a driving range pad on the BOL.
1) I can't build myself unless I"m a licensed contractor - thems' the rules.
2) No solar, no how, no way, even if I "hide" it - have to pay "the man" his PG&E rates to the extreme.
3) No generators if they can be heard by anyone - someone hears is - you lose it? Is that possible?
4) Must build 1200 minimum square feet and oh building permits start at about $15k - now you see why the lot is $495
5) And them dues - $158 a month for life - never goes away - doesn't even include property taxes.
Sorry honey, I'll build you a driving range pad on the BOL.
21 - 40 of 42 Posts
Yes but in many places there are no other choices. For example I live in a remote area and the housing was built by the mining companies that established the home owners associations. I'm not a miner and the housing is for sale for us federal employees that work here. The home owners association costs $75 a month for a really nothing more than a little prick that rides around in a golf cart looking for violations. When I moved in I repainted the numbers on the front of my house, just the numbers and received a cease and desist construction letter. I got home once with a short in a headlight on my previous car and was checking it out to see if it was something simple that I could repair. I received a cease and desist letter on auto repairs in my driveway. You get the idea.Ah but you can do better than vote them out - don't buy in.
Like I said...a little slowOh! I get it. You want me to read what you mean not what you write.
The above stated behaviors are ther fertile ground for small minds that irritate me about HOA's. I don't mind rules at all, hell I was career military. I do mind petty small minded people with nothing better to do than perpetually live their life in such trivial minitua that something such as opening your hood in your own driveway gets you a letter.Yes but in many places there are no other choices. For example I live in a remote area and the housing was built by the mining companies that established the home owners associations. I'm not a miner and the housing is for sale for us federal employees that work here. The home owners association costs $75 a month for a really nothing more than a little prick that rides around in a golf cart looking for violations. When I moved in I repainted the numbers on the front of my house, just the numbers and received a cease and desist construction letter. I got home once with a short in a headlight on my previous car and was checking it out to see if it was something simple that I could repair. I received a cease and desist letter on auto repairs in my driveway. You get the idea.
I also wish every person who ever, even once in their life, stopped and used a ruler to measure someone's grass length could get punched in the throat.
Like I said...a little slow
You are right I am not as smart as you two think you are_nobody is that smart.And thin skinned.
Not that at all but if you belittle someone, expect a response. Homeowners associations are a necessary evil and I have been part of many. The problem arises when the system is abused for the benefit of a few. I could for the boredom of all point out countless stories of this fact.You are right I am not as smart as you two think you are_nobody is that smart.
I love the "i had to buy" there comment. I've heard it before, and its purely ludicrous. You bought there because the price was right and you didn't want to drive any further distance to a property not governed by an HOA. When you bought - you agreed. DONE; live by it or run a campaign to take over the board and change it. Its amazing how much people who hate the rules, don't want to live by the rules, and won't USE the rules.
There is no question there can be problems. It starts with the overwhelming majority of members being too busy to participate. Then you get a power hungry individual with so so board members. We have had presidents that think the entire neighborhood belongs to them. We have had presidents that use the office to wage war against neighbors.
As for me the entire reason for an association to exist is to protect property values and ensure everyone can enjoy the peaceful use of their property.
As for me the entire reason for an association to exist is to protect property values and ensure everyone can enjoy the peaceful use of their property.
Personally I hate my HOA they seem to think they are some form of bosses over what we do with our private property. I and my neighbor have a sort of unique situation back here on this street in that we legally control and maintain the greenbelts and ponds that are protected wetlands back there in the woods. We are the kinds of people that the other folks in the neighborhood know to not cross, tell their kids to stay out of our yards ECT but those bozos on the HOA never seemed to catch on. I don't mind when someone wants to keep a neighborhood looking clean and keep it running smoothly but that's rarely what a HOA does. At least in my neck of the woods. Sure they start under that premise but as you know if you give someone a millimeter they will take a god damn nautical mile. Awhile back the president of the HOA just up and sends out notices that he and some people are starting a 'swim team' for some local kids and we would be restricted to using the pool only on weekends. Yeah, that didn't fly when every homeowner threatened to cut off their payments to the HOA. Then he sends out apology letters a week or two later and backpedals.
OH, yeah then there was the time the same dumb bastard pulls up to MY pond and tells me to get my truck off the grass. I just eye him and went 'I'll do as I please with my land." and he walks off shaking his head like 'well shit'. As if I'm the ass.
Yeah, then this one I recall where he wants me to mount a new mailbox and everything but he lets his pal who lives at the end of the street add a second cottage in the back yard (which is strictly forbidden according the rules) because he knows him personally. Needless to say that same old mailbox is still right out front.
There's too many examples of this asshat to list. They get the graduation sign each spring and you can't even read the kids names. They won't fix things that are becoming blatantly dangerous but they'll spend my money having a party I don't even want to attend. As far as I'm concerned there is no homeowners assoc. here because they aren't worthy of the title. The last real run in with the head of the HOA I had was him threatening to put a lien on my property for the chimney cap being rusty. After a few choice words about how I handle people who threaten me with my shotgun and a fashionable reaming about his obnoxious dogs he lets run the neighborhood, I informed his city slicker ass that should he put a 1000 dollar lien on my house or whatever, I'll spend 75 bucks file a lawsuit and either way it'll be no less than 15k for him. "Even if you win...you loose asshole." I think were my very words. Haven't heard a peep since.
But this is my take on it. Sure, HOA's are probably started with good intentions. One lesson I have learned to be true is that the roadway to hell is paved with good intentions. Best of intentions.
They still are invalid and ignorant. Sure, nobody wants some screwball to come into a neighborhood and trash a property, make a problem. Did the genius developer maybe think about who he sold the land to before selling it down the river after collecting logging money on top of his bloated profit? Hell no, because big fat rich cigar smoking toad kings who broker these deals couldn't care less if its the last tree on earth they want a parking lot there instead.
As a constitutional Libertarian I still affirm that self governance is the ONLY thing that works. Every neighbor should have the self respect to keep his/her property up to standard and to do what is right. And if someone does start causing problems, the other neighbors should have the self respect to go over and slap the living shit out of them if necessary. Want to know why Dodge city didn't have a HOA? Because the HOA board would've been tarred, feathered and run out of town. Whenever you start forcing someone to do something under threats because YOU see fit to IMPOSE something on someone else that is where it starts to border on communism and I deal with quite enough of that from the current administration. I won't have it at home.
OH, yeah then there was the time the same dumb bastard pulls up to MY pond and tells me to get my truck off the grass. I just eye him and went 'I'll do as I please with my land." and he walks off shaking his head like 'well shit'. As if I'm the ass.
Yeah, then this one I recall where he wants me to mount a new mailbox and everything but he lets his pal who lives at the end of the street add a second cottage in the back yard (which is strictly forbidden according the rules) because he knows him personally. Needless to say that same old mailbox is still right out front.
There's too many examples of this asshat to list. They get the graduation sign each spring and you can't even read the kids names. They won't fix things that are becoming blatantly dangerous but they'll spend my money having a party I don't even want to attend. As far as I'm concerned there is no homeowners assoc. here because they aren't worthy of the title. The last real run in with the head of the HOA I had was him threatening to put a lien on my property for the chimney cap being rusty. After a few choice words about how I handle people who threaten me with my shotgun and a fashionable reaming about his obnoxious dogs he lets run the neighborhood, I informed his city slicker ass that should he put a 1000 dollar lien on my house or whatever, I'll spend 75 bucks file a lawsuit and either way it'll be no less than 15k for him. "Even if you win...you loose asshole." I think were my very words. Haven't heard a peep since.
But this is my take on it. Sure, HOA's are probably started with good intentions. One lesson I have learned to be true is that the roadway to hell is paved with good intentions. Best of intentions.
They still are invalid and ignorant. Sure, nobody wants some screwball to come into a neighborhood and trash a property, make a problem. Did the genius developer maybe think about who he sold the land to before selling it down the river after collecting logging money on top of his bloated profit? Hell no, because big fat rich cigar smoking toad kings who broker these deals couldn't care less if its the last tree on earth they want a parking lot there instead.
As a constitutional Libertarian I still affirm that self governance is the ONLY thing that works. Every neighbor should have the self respect to keep his/her property up to standard and to do what is right. And if someone does start causing problems, the other neighbors should have the self respect to go over and slap the living shit out of them if necessary. Want to know why Dodge city didn't have a HOA? Because the HOA board would've been tarred, feathered and run out of town. Whenever you start forcing someone to do something under threats because YOU see fit to IMPOSE something on someone else that is where it starts to border on communism and I deal with quite enough of that from the current administration. I won't have it at home.
If you can't accept don't like the rules why did you buy there? Ignorant I can see they are, but claiming them invalid makes you look less than smart since you bought into it. People who are "constitutional libertarians" really SHOULD NOT buy into a property that is HOA governed - if you can't accept the rules don't buy there - which is exactly what I noted in the OP. I just found a family friend that is a member of the HOA of the area I was looking at, he confirmed my concerns, and I won't buy there - don't need too.Personally I hate my HOA they seem to think they are some form of bosses over what we do with our private property. I and my neighbor have a sort of unique situation back here on this street in that we legally control and maintain the greenbelts and ponds that are protected wetlands back there in the woods. We are the kinds of people that the other folks in the neighborhood know to not cross, tell their kids to stay out of our yards ECT but those bozos on the HOA never seemed to catch on. I don't mind when someone wants to keep a neighborhood looking clean and keep it running smoothly but that's rarely what a HOA does. At least in my neck of the woods. Sure they start under that premise but as you know if you give someone a millimeter they will take a god damn nautical mile. Awhile back the president of the HOA just up and sends out notices that he and some people are starting a 'swim team' for some local kids and we would be restricted to using the pool only on weekends. Yeah, that didn't fly when every homeowner threatened to cut off their payments to the HOA. Then he sends out apology letters a week or two later and backpedals.
OH, yeah then there was the time the same dumb bastard pulls up to MY pond and tells me to get my truck off the grass. I just eye him and went 'I'll do as I please with my land." and he walks off shaking his head like 'well shit'. As if I'm the ass.
Yeah, then this one I recall where he wants me to mount a new mailbox and everything but he lets his pal who lives at the end of the street add a second cottage in the back yard (which is strictly forbidden according the rules) because he knows him personally. Needless to say that same old mailbox is still right out front.
There's too many examples of this asshat to list. They get the graduation sign each spring and you can't even read the kids names. They won't fix things that are becoming blatantly dangerous but they'll spend my money having a party I don't even want to attend. As far as I'm concerned there is no homeowners assoc. here because they aren't worthy of the title. The last real run in with the head of the HOA I had was him threatening to put a lien on my property for the chimney cap being rusty. After a few choice words about how I handle people who threaten me with my shotgun and a fashionable reaming about his obnoxious dogs he lets run the neighborhood, I informed his city slicker ass that should he put a 1000 dollar lien on my house or whatever, I'll spend 75 bucks file a lawsuit and either way it'll be no less than 15k for him. "Even if you win...you loose asshole." I think were my very words. Haven't heard a peep since.
But this is my take on it. Sure, HOA's are probably started with good intentions. One lesson I have learned to be true is that the roadway to hell is paved with good intentions. Best of intentions.
They still are invalid and ignorant. Sure, nobody wants some screwball to come into a neighborhood and trash a property, make a problem. Did the genius developer maybe think about who he sold the land to before selling it down the river after collecting logging money on top of his bloated profit? Hell no, because big fat rich cigar smoking toad kings who broker these deals couldn't care less if its the last tree on earth they want a parking lot there instead.
As a constitutional Libertarian I still affirm that self governance is the ONLY thing that works. Every neighbor should have the self respect to keep his/her property up to standard and to do what is right. And if someone does start causing problems, the other neighbors should have the self respect to go over and slap the living shit out of them if necessary. Want to know why Dodge city didn't have a HOA? Because the HOA board would've been tarred, feathered and run out of town. Whenever you start forcing someone to do something under threats because YOU see fit to IMPOSE something on someone else that is where it starts to border on communism and I deal with quite enough of that from the current administration. I won't have it at home.
So he can feel empowered by "sticking it to the man". The only thing I saw in his stores is that some people were held to standards while others were not, which gave him valid grounds for protest. If policies were equally enforced I'm sure it would have been a different story. I have seen where an HOA put a lien on someone's house after the HOA equally enforced a mailbox policy in the neighborhood.If you can't accept don't like the rules why did you buy there? Ignorant I can see they are, but claiming them invalid makes you look less than smart since you bought into it. People who are "constitutional libertarians" really SHOULD NOT buy into a property that is HOA governed - if you can't accept the rules don't buy there - which is exactly what I noted in the OP. I just found a family friend that is a member of the HOA of the area I was looking at, he confirmed my concerns, and I won't buy there - don't need too.
Equal enforcement is important in all laws. We have to pay taxes, but people can cross our borders with impunity. It creates conflict. I get that. His complaint about a neighbor getting to put an illegal building up is valid, but his complaint about an association that he bought into with rules he thus bought into is not. I will reiterate; a constitutional libertarian really should not buy into a property with rules governed by an HOA. It does restrict property rights and most of them can't deal with that.
I did not participate in our association because of my work. Only once did they do something stupid. They had the state put in speed bumps. Just before they went in I attended the annual meeting think it was up for discussion. I had just returned from my work in the UK so I was out of the loop. I let them know how underhanded such a decision was but they had secretly got enough signatures to put them in.
Speeders were a problem but as I know now before the speed bumps the neighborhood had no liability. Any idiot should know that but the lie took. Now I take a modicum of pleasure telling everyone that plus now that we put them in if we remove them, and we can. But, if a child is hurt we have liability exposure we did not have before. That president found himself completely off the board soon after.
Then there was the president that hired an incompodent lawyer to rewrite the covenants and restriction which would automatically renew if two thirds of property owners did not sign off on a new set. Time was running out and the lawyer had not completed thr rewrite.
Then came a guy that really had an ongoing battle with his neighbor. He hired another lawyer that did a good job. The old set prohibited the old big satellite dishes but was written so even the new small ones were prohibited. Updating was a must. But this president was a nit picker and had an ongoing battle with his next door neighbor and in most cases rightly so.
Now there are covenants and restrictions that are part of the public record and attached to the deeds. Then there are by-laws which spell out how the board will operate, terms, officers, number of board members, etc. He offered some amendments at the end of his term that would extended his voting rights, added to the board from 7 to 9 when the C&R say 5 to 7 and nominated for president a lady that would have done his bidding
Now I retired four and a half years earlier. The old treasurer could not get anyone to take the job. It was a non-voting position. Finally she just dumped the records on the presidents door. After it became clear to him and everyone else he could not do the job I agreed to take it on. Well the president tried to make me his minion. Increasingly I was forced to tell him in no uncertain terms, "you can't do that."
So at his urging the lady with his urging said she was putting her name in the running for president. Now she was (is) not even a board member but a by laws fix was proposed to get around that. The nominating committee contacted me asking (telling) me they were going to nominate me. I informed them without a new treasurer or a by laws change I could not be both. I also thought there are ethical considerations.
Into the meeting we went. The departing president insisted that he still had a vote. I objected. The consensus was let's just see how it comes out. The vote was 4-4. So the new consensus was the out going president cannot vote. I offered to withdraw, "saying a 4-3 split was not good either way." I got kicked under the table while some insisted I stay in others saying I should be able to withdraw if I liked. Then the statement came let's just vote. I became President/Treasurer with a 5-2 vote.
I am not oblivious to association abuses. But they are still necessary to protect property rights and values. Take a hundred homeowners there will be 75 that think their one deviation is ok. There are restriction that can be taken to absurd levels. Like no parking on the street or on grass. Everyone has visitors where exceptions are necessary. Yet some will take a 24 hour rule and think they can just move their car and re-park.
In any case I support having covenants and restrictions are better than the two alternatives. I do not like government dictated covenants and restrictions. No C&R can destroy your property values.
I will be filing a case of failure to pay dues in magistrates court tomorrow.
Speeders were a problem but as I know now before the speed bumps the neighborhood had no liability. Any idiot should know that but the lie took. Now I take a modicum of pleasure telling everyone that plus now that we put them in if we remove them, and we can. But, if a child is hurt we have liability exposure we did not have before. That president found himself completely off the board soon after.
Then there was the president that hired an incompodent lawyer to rewrite the covenants and restriction which would automatically renew if two thirds of property owners did not sign off on a new set. Time was running out and the lawyer had not completed thr rewrite.
Then came a guy that really had an ongoing battle with his neighbor. He hired another lawyer that did a good job. The old set prohibited the old big satellite dishes but was written so even the new small ones were prohibited. Updating was a must. But this president was a nit picker and had an ongoing battle with his next door neighbor and in most cases rightly so.
Now there are covenants and restrictions that are part of the public record and attached to the deeds. Then there are by-laws which spell out how the board will operate, terms, officers, number of board members, etc. He offered some amendments at the end of his term that would extended his voting rights, added to the board from 7 to 9 when the C&R say 5 to 7 and nominated for president a lady that would have done his bidding
Now I retired four and a half years earlier. The old treasurer could not get anyone to take the job. It was a non-voting position. Finally she just dumped the records on the presidents door. After it became clear to him and everyone else he could not do the job I agreed to take it on. Well the president tried to make me his minion. Increasingly I was forced to tell him in no uncertain terms, "you can't do that."
So at his urging the lady with his urging said she was putting her name in the running for president. Now she was (is) not even a board member but a by laws fix was proposed to get around that. The nominating committee contacted me asking (telling) me they were going to nominate me. I informed them without a new treasurer or a by laws change I could not be both. I also thought there are ethical considerations.
Into the meeting we went. The departing president insisted that he still had a vote. I objected. The consensus was let's just see how it comes out. The vote was 4-4. So the new consensus was the out going president cannot vote. I offered to withdraw, "saying a 4-3 split was not good either way." I got kicked under the table while some insisted I stay in others saying I should be able to withdraw if I liked. Then the statement came let's just vote. I became President/Treasurer with a 5-2 vote.
I am not oblivious to association abuses. But they are still necessary to protect property rights and values. Take a hundred homeowners there will be 75 that think their one deviation is ok. There are restriction that can be taken to absurd levels. Like no parking on the street or on grass. Everyone has visitors where exceptions are necessary. Yet some will take a 24 hour rule and think they can just move their car and re-park.
In any case I support having covenants and restrictions are better than the two alternatives. I do not like government dictated covenants and restrictions. No C&R can destroy your property values.
I will be filing a case of failure to pay dues in magistrates court tomorrow.
...Seems to me U mean the non-use of thier property..There is no question there can be problems. It starts with the overwhelming majority of members being too busy to participate. Then you get a power hungry individual with so so board members. We have had presidents that think the entire neighborhood belongs to them. We have had presidents that use the office to wage war against neighbors.
As for me the entire reason for an association to exist is to protect property values and ensure everyone can enjoy the peaceful use of their property.
i lived for years in a town that did not have an HOA in my neighborhood, but the town code enforcment officers made up for it by being total asses. One of them even rode the neighborhoods Sundays on his bicycle trying to sneak up on anybody breaking "The Code."The above stated behaviors are ther fertile ground for small minds that irritate me about HOA's. I don't mind rules at all, hell I was career military. I do mind petty small minded people with nothing better to do than perpetually live their life in such trivial minitua that something such as opening your hood in your own driveway gets you a letter.
I also wish every person who ever, even once in their life, stopped and used a ruler to measure someone's grass length could get punched in the throat.
We now live in an area that is zoned OR - that stands for Open Rural and we can pretty much do what the hell we want. I can shoot a rifle off my back porch if i care to. We can even have pigs, and if I ever get a butt head for a neighbor, I might just get a few pigs. Ahhhh!! That "fresh country fragrance" the marketers like to label their laundry soap with!
I would never live anywhere there is an HOA, or even inside any town limits ever again.
Yep, I'm just a country *******, and if anyone doesn't like the way we live, they don't have to move here.
I've lived in 2 Hoa's. One for a year, and it was a real one. Just a pain in the ass. Then the one I was in for 10 years before that, and the 10 years after it. So I've lived in this HOA for 20 years total. It's a good HOA. It's voluntary, and only a few busy body's like that Palmeto tree clown pay. It has been broke and ineffective for the 20 years I've lived in it. So I live free without some tin pot wannabe tyrant trying to tell me what to do. I keep my nose out of my neighbors business, and they keep their nose out of mine. Just the way it should be.
Which is the way it should be. Freedom and liberty......... So I live free without some tin pot wannabe tyrant trying to tell me what to do. I keep my nose out of my neighbors business, and they keep their nose out of mine. Just the way it should be.
I think it was Ben Franklin who said, and I am paraphrasing here, "Those who would trade freedom and liberty for security deserve neither".
In this case the security would be the almighty "property values", which are arbitrary anyway.
I think more places like that should be built. If you are the type of person that wants to live with that then you definitely deserve not being able to survive out in your grand community once you learn how ineffective your govt will be in saving your back ends in an emergency situation that may last longer than a week.
HOA love em hate at least they keep the hood rats out, I dont have to worry about the chevy impala parked under the tree with the motor hanging on a tree limb and the trunk of the car used as recycling center for budlight beer cans and a couple of pitbulls chained up to the bumper and using the car as a dog house. Oh and I am not sorry if this offends someone and is not politically correct or profiles certain people
21 - 40 of 42 Posts
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