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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
At the bequest of my wife we took a drive last weekend. We stopped at a "golf and country club" in the Sierra Mountains - I'd say foothills but its really beyond them and in to the mountain range. It really is a beautiful property. They have suffered like any other and lots are available there for $495 now. They are about a half acre and were marked as we drove through the subdivision. This is a big subdivision / community. There are nearly 3000 homes already built and probably 500 or so empty lots left most of which are held by someone. They have a lot of nice amenities including an air strip / hangers, golf course (if you dig - I did in the past - not lately), SHOOTING RANGE (yeah baby), and all of the other typical stuff (tennis, pools, trails etc etc) and its on a lake too. As things go - this isn't bad. Its only 75 minutes from my primary residence AND its actually "on the way" to my BOL. Things were looking positive. So I started to do a tad bit of homework this week only to learn:

1) I can't build myself unless I"m a licensed contractor - thems' the rules.
2) No solar, no how, no way, even if I "hide" it - have to pay "the man" his PG&E rates to the extreme.
3) No generators if they can be heard by anyone - someone hears is - you lose it? Is that possible?
4) Must build 1200 minimum square feet and oh building permits start at about $15k - now you see why the lot is $495
5) And them dues - $158 a month for life - never goes away - doesn't even include property taxes.

Sorry honey, I'll build you a driving range pad on the BOL.
 

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Haha
In the land of greenies you can't have solar?

WTF?

I would check with Governor Brown, that is probably against the law.

hehe
 

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There is nothing ignorant about it.

The developer decided this was the product he wanted to offer and thought property owners would like their investment protected from those wanting a different lifestyle. So the developer drew up a set of covenants and restrictions. These in most states are recorded and part of the public record.

This is a prime example of property rights and contracted protection from cheap construction, small shacks, and garish taste.

I am both the President and treasurer of such an association. Believe me it only takes a few homes to hurt property values. There is a development only a couple miles down the highway that has destroyed the value of early buyers because of poorly written restrictions.

Granted the developer runs the risk of not being able to sell his lots because his product concept is priced outside the local demand.

Our current dues is only $204 a year but we have zero clubhouses, golf courses and the like. We have limited common areas to maintain and our board's biggest job is enforcing aesthetic compliance.

I know of association dues as high as $300 to $600 a month. These neighborhoods are sold out and brokers have names on buy list if one goes on the market.

This is part of freedom. This is part of property rights. This is far better than having a government zoning and planning commission.

There is nothing ignorant. It is informed.
 

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IIRC it's against federal law to prohibit any type of green energy.
 

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There is nothing ignorant about it.

The developer decided this was the product he wanted to offer and thought property owners would like their investment protected from those wanting a different lifestyle. So the developer drew up a set of covenants and restrictions. These in most states are recorded and part of the public record.

This is a prime example of property rights and contracted protection from cheap construction, small shacks, and garish taste.

I am both the President and treasurer of such an association. Believe me it only takes a few homes to hurt property values. There is a development only a couple miles down the highway that has destroyed the value of early buyers because of poorly written restrictions.

Granted the developer runs the risk of not being able to sell his lots because his product concept is priced outside the local demand.

Our current dues is only $204 a year but we have zero clubhouses, golf courses and the like. We have limited common areas to maintain and our board's biggest job is enforcing aesthetic compliance.

I know of association dues as high as $300 to $600 a month. These neighborhoods are sold out and brokers have names on buy list if one goes on the market.

This is part of freedom. This is part of property rights. This is far better than having a government zoning and planning commission.

There is nothing ignorant. It is informed.
I agree. I grew up on a road with a Home Owners Association (HOA). It was fairly small with about 30 houses along a private dead end 1.5 mile road. I remember my dad talking about it and going to meetings. I think it was around $100 a year and only really formed for maintenance of the road but rarely they stepped for other matters. The idea of people telling you what you can and cant do on your property always baffled me, this is America after all right?

It all makes sense now though. I currently live and purchased a house in the suburbs. While there is no HOA I am thankful for ordinances; Cutting grass, noise, run down houses etc. Every little thing can and will affect real estate prices.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
I lived in two property associations and dealt with two others who my parents lived among. I have no trouble with rules and enforcement. In fact I tire of the "its my property" BS that people spew which is why I investigated the rules before I decided to buy or not. The community provides a great deal for $158 a month but I don't want to get into paying that much so its not for me.

As for solar the mistake and the reason I call them ignorant is that it can be done out of sight on such propert - remember the lots are 20,000 to 30,000 square feet in size its not that hard to place a ground mount system in place and hide it from the neighbors. An emergency back up generator that makes no noise so that "no one" can even hear it seems quite over the top - a reasonable decible level would suffice. Last - requiring a licensed contractor to build is just a burden - they have design standards (like 1200 sq feet minimum) and plent of DIY people can manage to build on their own just as nice as any contractor. So its no wonder to me the association itself is selling lots for $495; with those rules they aren't even worth that.

There is nothing ignorant about it.

The developer decided this was the product he wanted to offer and thought property owners would like their investment protected from those wanting a different lifestyle. So the developer drew up a set of covenants and restrictions. These in most states are recorded and part of the public record.

This is a prime example of property rights and contracted protection from cheap construction, small shacks, and garish taste.

I am both the President and treasurer of such an association. Believe me it only takes a few homes to hurt property values. There is a development only a couple miles down the highway that has destroyed the value of early buyers because of poorly written restrictions.

Granted the developer runs the risk of not being able to sell his lots because his product concept is priced outside the local demand.

Our current dues is only $204 a year but we have zero clubhouses, golf courses and the like. We have limited common areas to maintain and our board's biggest job is enforcing aesthetic compliance.

I know of association dues as high as $300 to $600 a month. These neighborhoods are sold out and brokers have names on buy list if one goes on the market.

This is part of freedom. This is part of property rights. This is far better than having a government zoning and planning commission.

There is nothing ignorant. It is informed.
 

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I want to lead a rebel assault on my home owners association! Any organization that you have to join and can't vote them out is communist!

Apparently for some I need to put a disclaimer on this: This is a joke and like most jokes it does not convey reality nor actual events :)
 

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We have a home owners association. For the most part they usually leave us alone and only ask for about $100 per year. Twice in the 18 years we have lived here they have gotten into their heads that they could "improve" things by having everybody in the neighborhood use the same garbage service. When they came by and did their spiel to us about why this was such a great idea I told them in no uncertain terms that I will do business with whomever I damn well please. I don't think they like me much. :mrgreen:
 

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I want to lead a rebel assault on my home owners association! Any organization that you have to join and can't vote them out is communist!
First you are not required to join an association. Homeowner associations are legally binding contracts you consent to joining if you buy particular pieces of property.

I never saw one that the property owners did not elect the board. Many require renewal; automatic renewal or rewriting every 20 years or so. With changes requiring a two thirds vote.

Your calling them communist demonstrates an ignorance of both homer owner associations and communism.
 

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We have a home owners association. For the most part they usually leave us alone and only ask for about $100 per year. Twice in the 18 years we have lived here they have gotten into their heads that they could "improve" things by having everybody in the neighborhood use the same garbage service. When they came by and did their spiel to us about why this was such a great idea I told them in no uncertain terms that I will do business with whomever I damn well please. I don't think they like me much. :mrgreen:
I agree. But now that I am retired it is amazing the number of track pick up and landscaping trucks in the neighborhood every day. But, by 5 PM they are all gone.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Ah but you can do better than vote them out - don't buy in.

I want to lead a rebel assault on my home owners association! Any organization that you have to join and can't vote them out is communist!
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
I am amazed at how many people buy a condo / town home / or such property in an association and don't realize the rules they have accepted when they signed the contract. I lived in a relatively small one (80 units) once and we saved up enough money to tent / for termites the entire complex ($12k) which means everyone was getting it within their dues for no assessment and it was needed. We had a termite issue. The association was required to cover the exterior of the units which was starting to eat into reserves. It was voted on by the entire complex with 55 votes yes and 25 people not bothering to vote (55-0) vote. A date was agreed upon. Notices were repeated and the company showed up in the morning on a Wednesday to tent and would allow us back in on Friday at 5 PM. One family basically said "screw you" I'm not moving out. Well you can't tent if you don't move. So we lost our $4k deposit thanks to them, and we sued them for it - and won. Only when we sued we also applied added damages for new pest repairs and won nearly $20k. It amazing the stupidity of some people. We tented the property about 18 months later after they were forced to vacate by a judges order.

First you are not required to join an association. Homeowner associations are legally binding contracts you consent to joining if you buy particular pieces of property.

I never saw one that the property owners did not elect the board. Many require renewal; automatic renewal or rewriting every 20 years or so. With changes requiring a two thirds vote.

Your calling them communist demonstrates an ignorance of both homer owner associations and communism.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
If you can't live by the rules don't buy the property. Which was the point in my original post.

No not at all. Home owner associations have nothing to do with property rights...they are however the breeding grounds of petty tyrants...
 

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No not at all. Home owner associations have nothing to do with property rights...they are however the breeding grounds of petty tyrants...
You are just wrong. If I own a hundred acres and I want to sell fifty. I have a three thousand sq. foot home and I want to protect that value. Then I have every right to list a set of covenants and restrictions that buyers must follow.

Use limits have been part of property sales for hundreds of years. I have not looked it up but my guess it was part of Roman law taken to the British isles incorporated into Anglo-Saxon law from which we adopted our contract and property rights law.

Look you are perfectly free to find unrestricted land to buy. But do not complain if adjacent owners put up a shack, feed their septic tank field above your well; free range their chickens; have open hog wallow; dogs chasing your livestock... Well you get the picture.
 

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The covenant must not be personal in nature - it must benefit the land rather than an individual
The covenant must 'touch and concern' the land - it must affect how the land is used or the value of the land
The benefited land must be identifiable.
 

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First you are not required to join an association. Homeowner associations are legally binding contracts you consent to joining if you buy particular pieces of property.

I never saw one that the property owners did not elect the board. Many require renewal; automatic renewal or rewriting every 20 years or so. With changes requiring a two thirds vote.

Your calling them communist demonstrates an ignorance of both homer owner associations and communism.
Your obviously one of those! It was a joke and next time I will try and make it more clear for you because your a little slow ;)
 
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