[Diver]

The question I have about the incident is what caused them to take him down in the first place??

He might have flipped out while being put in the cruiser, a guy that big can be a problem even if cuffed.

I make no judgment in either direction without all the facts, and they are not present yet.

Firing the cops without a hearing was a political appeasement move to calm the natives, which it did not.

How many turds showed their gang signs while the places burned behind them???

I am glad I am not on the force here anymore, way to much BS.

You have a good point and I hope the PD will soon release the bodycam footage that will resolve the question. Until then, people are going to believe the worst based on the footage that has been released. If the missing footage shows something favorable to the cops, it is in the best interest of the PD to release it ASAP.

 

[Back Pack Hack]

What bodycam footage? They were so busy dodging bullets they didn't have time to turn them on... what with all the life-and-death struggles going on.

 

[Diver]

What bodycam footage? They were so busy dodging bullets they didn't have time to turn them on... what with all the life-and-death struggles going on.

To the best of my knowledge, there were no shots fired during the original incident. Furthermore, there is footage that shows the original contact being very non-violent. There should be bodycam footage any time the PD interacts with the public, so there should be 4 sets of footage from the beginning of the incident. If there is not footage, then they have another problem.

 

[Kauboy]

Years ago this forum would have been 100% supportive of the cop. I do not think "cop bashing" is appropriate, but I do think differing opinions should be aired and that is what I see happening here. I think that is a good thing and it shows the group has evolved. I maintain that police in general have a PR problem because of both incidents like this one, and the fact that cops have tended to not be removed despite obvious failures. Some of the posts here acknowledge that the MN police do have a problem, so at least some people are starting to get the point. Perhaps when a majority of this group gets to the point of acknowledging the problem, we can move on to discussing solutions.

and it is not "one incident". It is merely a current incident caught on film.

Again, save your cop-hating comments for another forum.
Stop the asinine assumptions about what we would have done. Half of us were around then, we haven't changed. We support law enforcement in their legal pursuit of justice. We will not turn a blind eye to bad behavior, NOR will we assume a 10 second clip shows the whole story.
Yes, this is ONE incident. That's how these things should always be dealt with. Once incident at a time. Otherwise, we risk turning into you, where every action an officer takes is wrong and all cops are bad.
Each incident deserves fair investigation, period.

"This group" has always been consistent. In general, cops are good. Bad behavior is called out. Our opinions are not swayed by the mob or social justice outcries.
"The problem" is, and has always been, knee-jerk reactions and assumptions made by ignorant people. When *that* group stops the insanity, we can start to get a clearer picture of the real world.

 

[Diver]

Again, save your cop-hating comments for another forum.
Stop the asinine assumptions about what we would have done. Half of us were around then, we haven't changed. We support law enforcement in their legal pursuit of justice. We will not turn a blind eye to bad behavior, NOR will we assume a 10 second clip shows the whole story.
Yes, this is ONE incident. That's how these things should always be dealt with. Once incident at a time. Otherwise, we risk turning into you, where every action an officer takes is wrong and all cops are bad.
Each incident deserves fair investigation, period.

"This group" has always been consistent. In general, cops are good. Bad behavior is called out. Our opinions are not swayed by the mob or social justice outcries.
"The problem" is, and has always been, knee-jerk reactions and assumptions made by ignorant people. When *that* group stops the insanity, we can start to get a clearer picture of the real world.

I have not said anything that should be construed as "cop hating". I have said, and continue to say that police have a PR problem. Bad behavior is frequently not called out, and until it is, bad cops will continue to damage community relations broadly.

Are you actually maintaining that MN police have good community relations? LOL

 

[Kauboy]

I have not said anything that should be construed as "cop hating". I have said, and continue to say that police have a PR problem. Bad behavior is frequently not called out, and until it is, bad cops will continue to damage community relations broadly.

Are you actually maintaining that MN police have good community relations? LOL

I'm maintaining that all incidents should be considered as standalone situations. You however, generalize all cops as having "PR problems", which is just a veiled attack intended to undermine all officer actions.
Bad behavior is often called out. However, far too many officer interactions are immediately considered "bad" by idiots who jump to conclusions before facts are known. THAT is what we seek to avoid here.

Case in point, we have a few minutes of video showing Mr. Floyd's arrest. It ends with the initial contact officers leading him to their patrol car at the edge of the screen. We don't see him put into the car.
Then we have a cell phone video showing an officer using what appears to be extended excessive force against Mr. Floyd who is already on the ground, still handcuffed. Using one's knee when pinning a detained person is supposed to be used on the shoulder or back, not the neck. Pinning on the neck is against protocol. The officers are CLEARLY in violation of protocol, and caused the man's death as a result. Murder requires intent to kill. With the facts known at this time, they did not intend for the man to die. At minimum, this is absolutely homicide, and deserves charges.
However, I must ask what happened between these two videos? It will not justify the ~8 minutes of excessive force against a downed and cuffed individual. But it is missing information, and that means we don't have all the details.
Maybe that missing time reveals intent to kill. Maybe it adds new information. Maybe it doesn't.

Can you see how that is a FAIR assessment of the situation?

With all officers involved being fired, we can make two assumptions.
1. The command chain reviewed all information, likely including body cam footage, and found the officers to be at fault
2. The department/city wanted to avoid incident, and took action against the officers in spite of not having all the facts, or had the facts, and still chose to fire them to appease the mob (didn't work)

BTW, law enforcement officers are not Personal Relationship agents. Saying they have a "PR problem" is nonsense. Their role is not to maintain fictional PR that is completely subjective, varying person to person. Their role is to enforce the law. Stop attributing unrelated characteristics to them, and then jumping on them for not meeting your expectations.

 

[Diver]

I'm maintaining that all incidents should be considered as standalone situations. You however, generalize all cops as having "PR problems", which is just a veiled attack intended to undermine all officer actions.
Bad behavior is often called out. However, far too many officer interactions are immediately considered "bad" by idiots who jump to conclusions before facts are known. THAT is what we seek to avoid here.

Case in point, we have a few minutes of video showing Mr. Floyd's arrest. It ends with the initial contact officers leading him to their patrol car at the edge of the screen. We don't see him put into the car.
Then we have a cell phone video showing an officer using what appears to be extended excessive force against Mr. Floyd who is already on the ground, still handcuffed. Using one's knee when pinning a detained person is supposed to be used on the shoulder or back, not the neck. Pinning on the neck is against protocol. The officers are CLEARLY in violation of protocol, and caused the man's death as a result. Murder requires intent to kill. With the facts known at this time, they did not intend for the man to die. At minimum, this is absolutely homicide, and deserves charges.
However, I must ask what happened between these two videos? It will not justify the ~8 minutes of excessive force against a downed and cuffed individual. But it is missing information, and that means we don't have all the details.
Maybe that missing time reveals intent to kill. Maybe it adds new information. Maybe it doesn't.

Can you see how that is a FAIR assessment of the situation?

With all officers involved being fired, we can make two assumptions.
1. The command chain reviewed all information, likely including body cam footage, and found the officers to be at fault
2. The department/city wanted to avoid incident, and took action against the officers in spite of not having all the facts, or had the facts, and still chose to fire them to appease the mob (didn't work)

BTW, law enforcement officers are not Personal Relationship agents. Saying they have a "PR problem" is nonsense. Their role is not to maintain fictional PR that is completely subjective, varying person to person. Their role is to enforce the law. Stop attributing unrelated characteristics to them, and then jumping on them for not meeting your expectations.

You are deliberately misinterpreting my comments. Perhaps all incidents should be considered as standalone situations, but the fact is people have interactions with police every day and if they walk away from those incidents feeling they have been treated unfairly, they are going to walk away not trusting police in general. If police ignore this reality, they should not be surprised to find their community no longer trusts them. People do generalize. That is reality.

 

[Back Pack Hack]

To the best of my knowledge, there were no shots fired during the original incident. Furthermore, there is footage that shows the original contact being very non-violent. There should be bodycam footage any time the PD interacts with the public, so there should be 4 sets of footage from the beginning of the incident. If there is not footage, then they have another problem.

You missed the facetiousness. They've already made several inaccurate claims about the incident, only to be called out by videos.

What usually happens is, instead of being totally transparent, they send any footage from the bodycams over through Internal Affairs, the PIO and legal counsel. If there's anything in it/them that could possibly be used against them, they either withhold the footage, claiming it's 'privileged', or it mysteriously disappears.... or some crap about how the cameras were never turned on or the files were corrupted or the cameras malfunctioned....

 

[Smitty901]

What I want to see is the LEO receive the same treatment demanded by the thug in Milwuakee that guns down 3 people then claims I didnt doo nothn. Until the officer or officers have their day in court, give them thier right same as anyone. Murder in Milwuakee is up 140% most of it black on black. Not a word for anyone. Most of those caught will do little to no times and they are not even looking for most of the killers.

A large number of black arrested start scereaming making a scene. I can't breath, somebody video this they haten , They beating help help. banging their head on the car ect. So I will wait and see . I do not think anyone charged will have a fair day in court.

 

[Redneck]

What I want to see is the LEO receive the same treatment demanded by the thug in Milwuakee that guns down 3 people then claims I didnt doo nothn. Until the officer or officers have their day in court, give them thier right same as anyone.

Of course they will have their Constitutional rights protected. Too bad they didn't protect the rights of the fellow they killed on camera.

 

[Kauboy]

You are deliberately misinterpreting my comments. Perhaps all incidents should be considered as standalone situations, but the fact is people have interactions with police every day and if they walk away from those incidents feeling they have been treated unfairly, they are going to walk away not trusting police in general. If police ignore this reality, they should not be surprised to find their community no longer trusts them. People do generalize. That is reality.

I don't give a rat's ass how people "feel" when they walk away from a police interaction.
I care about the facts of the interaction.
Everybody thinks they're being treated unfairly when a figure of authority calls out a misdeed. Human nature is to deny responsibility to avoid hardship. It literally happens in every kind of interaction you can imagine.
Whining about how it made you feel is pointless. If a court determines you broke the law, you broke the law. If a court determines you didn't, you could potentially get a big payday.
Follow an officer's orders, and he has no reason to use force against you. Comply, and wait for your day in court.
We don't have footage between this man being walked away from the initial scene, and the cell phone video with him on the ground. It would be a fairly safe prediction to say he didn't comply, but I'm not putting money on it. We know the officer used excessive force, so we must leave open the possibility that they threw him down and chose to kill him. Until there is evidence of this, however, all we can see is negligent homicide.

 

[Back Pack Hack]

........We don't have footage between this man being walked away from the initial scene,...........

Yes we do.

 

[Kauboy]

Yes we do.

Did you bother to watch that?
He was walked away, lead to a patrol car in the upper corner of the screen as I described, and then it ends. That's exactly what I was referring to.
Show me the clip where he was forced to the ground.

 

[SOCOM42]

It is now being reported that the arrest was for passing funny money at a deli.

 

[Kauboy]

According to the officer standing guard while his partner ended this man's life, Mr. Floyd resisted getting into the patrol car "for 10 minutes".
We don't have that footage.
Not that it would likely change much, but could show officer intent.

Improper application of immobilization techniques, and an officer's lack of regard for the well-being of those in their custody, lead to this man's death.
Tragic, and completely avoidable.

 

[Rellgar]

You can see floyd resisting at the very end of the video, the last 2 seconds when they were putting him in the car. It was deliberately ended there, so it would not show the 10 minute struggle resisting the arrest. This was done to maximize the rioting. That explains the motive of the police. Floyd died at the hospital, not under the knee of the cop. What the officer did, may have been improper, even though it is said to be an acceptable procedure of that police department. I would wait for the autopsy and cause of death. I believe many will be surprised by it.

 

[Diver]

I don't give a rat's ass how people "feel" when they walk away from a police interaction.
I care about the facts of the interaction.
Everybody thinks they're being treated unfairly when a figure of authority calls out a misdeed. Human nature is to deny responsibility to avoid hardship. It literally happens in every kind of interaction you can imagine.
Whining about how it made you feel is pointless. If a court determines you broke the law, you broke the law. If a court determines you didn't, you could potentially get a big payday.
Follow an officer's orders, and he has no reason to use force against you. Comply, and wait for your day in court.
We don't have footage between this man being walked away from the initial scene, and the cell phone video with him on the ground. It would be a fairly safe prediction to say he didn't comply, but I'm not putting money on it. We know the officer used excessive force, so we must leave open the possibility that they threw him down and chose to kill him. Until there is evidence of this, however, all we can see is negligent homicide.

I have no idea what bodycam footage will ultimately appear, but it would be best for the cops involved, not to mention the city as a whole, if some exculpatory footage appeared before the city suffers further destruction. Not releasing footage is a PR mistake.

I take it you don't think that police need public support? They obviously don't have it in MN. How is that working out? How much of the city has to burn before you get the idea that PR matters?

 

[Kauboy]

You can see floyd resisting at the very end of the video, the last 2 seconds when they were putting him in the car. It was deliberately ended there, so it would not show the 10 minute struggle resisting the arrest. This was done to maximize the rioting. That explains the motive of the police. Floyd died at the hospital, not under the knee of the cop. What the officer did, may have been improper, even though it is said to be an acceptable procedure of that police department. I would wait for the autopsy and cause of death. I believe many will be surprised by it.

The other officer mentioned Mr. Floyd could have been under the effects of an overdose. No clue if that's true, or a CYA line. If we get the autopsy, that should clear it up.
Is that why they called the ambulance before the death?
Did he get injured at some point, so they called the bus, but by the time it arrived he was dead?

So many questions in that missing time.

 

[Kauboy]

I have no idea what bodycam footage will ultimately appear, but it would be best for the cops involved, not to mention the city as a whole, if some exculpatory footage appeared before the city suffers further destruction. Not releasing footage is a PR mistake.

I take it you don't think that police need public support? They obviously don't have it in MN. How is that working out? How much of the city has to burn before you get the idea that PR matters?

How long before you understand that PR is subjective?
You can't please people who don't want to be pleased. That's why so many incidents of "police brutality" go viral online, just to later be disproved.
People don't like cops. It's akin to racism. They assume too much, apply stereotypes to the group, and justify ill-will toward all of them based on the actions of a few. That's what you're doing.

BTW, there was a body cam vid released, but it was of an officer from across the street, mostly inaudible, and adds nothing to the facts. I have a feeling that might be the only thing we ever get.
lain:

 

[Back Pack Hack]

Did you bother to watch that?
He was walked away, lead to a patrol car in the upper corner of the screen as I described, and then it ends. That's exactly what I was referring to.
Show me the clip where he was forced to the ground.

You said there's no video showing him being walked away from the scene. That is exactly what it shown.