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During the draft, I tried to enlist but was classified 4F. For you young'uns, that meant that uncle sam would take women, children and dead dogs before they would take me. So, that meant no military training for me.

A friends dad taught me to shoot a 410 when I was 14. I have loved shooting sports since then. Most everything from there I learned from trial and error. I became proficient in skeet, sporting clays and pistols on the range. After I moved to Texas, I found competitive shooting. I shot IPSC. I got to the point where I managed to stay in the middle of the pack in score. Recently I found an outstanding instructor and found that I have many years of bad habits to overcome. I am getting to the range more and keeping up with my training now.

For those of you with no military training, I strongly suggest you find a good instructor. Forget the movies, watch the news. When someone stupid decides to have a shoot out with the police or gangland gun battles, many bullets are fired but few are hit. In a stressful situation you shoot at your level of proficiency. There is a major difference between taking your time and killing a paper target and having to shoot under pressure. Once you get pretty decent then find a place to shoot competitive. Participating in this type of event is timed and you feel some pressure, something you cannot experience at the range. This will give you an idea how you will react under pressure. True gun control is hitting what you aim at. This takes practice.
 

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Good point a man in Muskegon Hgts,MI got into a gunfight with 4 MH officers over the night. The man of course was hit, but only once and 1 officer was hit.

They don't know what officer hit the perp, or where the rest of the police bullets went.

Sounds like the police need more trigger time also.

I took a couple hours of private training in 2011, I had to unlearn a bunch of backtard range habits.

Now I need another class so as to get the PFZ exempt on my CPL, per Senate Bill 59 of 2011 in Michigan. It's that or become a Posse member.
 

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i do front sight training 4 day defensive pistol they are 10 hours days. in march ill do the 4 day defensive rifle. its amazing the difference. really really it is! theres a marksmen deal on meet up .com too. and when his classes are too big, i end up being a teacher instead of pupil. also hit aegis school in san diego. its expensive but well worth the money. beacuse we arent just shooting at targets in a nice setting, after action drills, mag checks, emergency gun jam fixes. reactive targets,live simulators, clearing houses, and if you really have it, force on force and long range rifle. also low light and night shoots. kinda makes a day at any other range boring.
I belong to 2 gun clubs the combination of them both offer all the amenities above for advanced training.
 

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Get some instruction then range time. Keep in mind over the years there have been 1000's of over night expects on weapons training many are blow hearts. Likely hood of you making the swat team slim.
Best way to survive a gun fight Don't be there. For get the big boy double tap to the chest one to the head stuff. Center mass shoot till threat has been stopped.
If you need to carry back up weapon and 3 mags you need to move or find anew bar to hang out in your not going to win that one.
SD is up close most real world encounters are with in arms reach scary but true. shooting BG across a parking lot is not SD but a Gun fight.
get behind something they can not hit what they can not see.
Know your weapon the use of it must be with out thought, quick target acquisition center mass of what you can see hit it .
If you feel a threat coming back away distance is your friend act early. Never chase down a BG .
You will drive your self nuts with this stuff KISS don't be a target
 

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A gun forum in my state makes it seem that if you don't have a Glock/M&P with grip reduction and slide serrations, surefire weapon and hand light, 2 spare mags, Raven holsters, trijicon HD sights and a 3.5# trigger, a BUG or 2 ,you'll die in a gunfight.
 

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A gun forum in my state makes it seem that if you don't have a Glock/M&P with grip reduction and slide serrations, surefire weapon and hand light, 2 spare mags, Raven holsters, trijicon HD sights and a 3.5# trigger, a BUG or 2 ,you'll die in a gunfight.
Two spare Mags little light don't you think you can get two in each sock. Don't forget the 50 dollar an oz gun lube and the zombie bad boy super xxx extreme 190 gr 9mm rounds .
You are right this marketing just goes to far
 

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Like Clint Smith says (and I paraphrase) "Practice until you're awesome, because when the shtf you won't be".
 
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Training is a very personal and individual thing. Many feel that the simple fact that you have a firearm, can load it, shoot it and can hit a target at 7 yards most of the time is a satisfactory level to keep themselves safe. Others feel that a higher level is for them and attend different schools, practice and train more often to obtain that higher level of skill, not knocking either camp as I said it is an individual choice.

One of the main differences between the two schools of thought is that what you can do on a square range, out with friends or family without any type of induced stress is not an indication of what you will do in real life. A SD situation will most likely be close, fast, violent and bloody. Your brain will be going a 1000 miles a minute and advanced training simply allows your body to be able to keep up with the actions your brain wants to do.

I also tend to shy away from schools that claim if you don't use their technique you will surely die type of thinking. Weapons preference, oh well you fight with what you have at the time. As a contractor I have been issued Beretta's and M4's, Glocks and AK's, Browning Hi Powers and SIGS so I do not have the luxury of having one gun, one type of manipulations, one holster and so on you take whatever tool you have and become proficient with it. A firearm is simply a tool and you are the craftsman that makes it work it is all up to you how skilled you want to be.

Always remember "A first rate man with a third rate gun is far better than the other way around".
 

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Even those with military training always benefit from additional training, especially some of the more high speed courses, or training in areas that the military fails to train (for me, that is pistol and shotgun; Infantry units rarely train with shotguns, hardly ever with pistols). I've been repeatedly spanked by course instructors and their students in two-gun matches in terms of both speed, and accuracy, and I'd like to think that I'm better than your average grunt with a weapon.
 

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We are pretty lucky around here if the BG's goes to a range to practice they get busted again ,so most of them can't hit much except maybe a house down the street they were not aiming at
Yes local ranges are required by COP to turn over a list of everyone that use the range, they then run every name.
Scary I know
 

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Well, this kinda seals it up for me. I have been thinking about finding and joining a IDPA or IPSC for the experience, but been alittle intimidated by the vids I've seen on Youtube. I thought it would be good step before taking full on 2-4day training courses. Plus there are no training facilities near by.

However neither gun I have is probly a good choice; one is a pocket 9mm and the other well I might be able to make it work but it is not the gun of choice for SD. It was just a cheap gun to shoot with for the fun of shooting. I suppose it doesn't matter, if you "train with what you will use" then the pocket 9mm is what I must use as it is my conceal Carry Gun.
 

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...and if you really have it, force on force...
This is one area that I haven't tried and would really like to; someday...

Even those with military training always benefit from additional training...training in areas that the military fails to train
Very true. Because of this, I'm pretty dang good (if I do say so myself) with a rifle and irons, but barely mediocre with a pistol/shotgun. I can hit what I aim at with either, but those are well-aimed shots; not taken under duress. Competitions that I enjoy such as service rifle XTC and prone rifle (F-class or iron/sling) do an excellent job with either instilling or improving marksmanship. Then, once the fundamentals are down, 2-gun (which I prefer) or 3-gun will put those skills against the timer and (perhaps more importantly) yourself. I can't remember who said it but, "practice makes permanent; perfect practice makes perfect."
 

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Even those with military training always benefit from additional training, especially some of the more high speed courses, or training in areas that the military fails to train (for me, that is pistol and shotgun; Infantry units rarely train with shotguns, hardly ever with pistols). I've been repeatedly spanked by course instructors and their students in two-gun matches in terms of both speed, and accuracy, and I'd like to think that I'm better than your average grunt with a weapon.
Private training is always ahead of LE/Military training
 

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Shotlady has a little more going with the ability to send time at Front Range...You go Girl. Now on the Cheap find a range/club that holds IPSC, IDPA or NRA Action Pistol matches. Many will include 3 gun or Pin and Steel as an outside bonus here and there.

This will teach you skills, drawing, tumbling, seeking cover, safe movement/transition from cover to target, mag changing/reloads and the list can go on.

You need to go there with the mindset to learn a new skill and not win anything...Trust me, you can run fast, waste a lot of ammo and finish well below the bottom of the worst shooter there....Then comes the practice, new gear here and there, more practice and a few more matches....If you finish a D or C Class Shooter after a few years you will still be more qualified than the average shooter as well as a lot of cops.

No Offense Intended to LEO's

Karsten
 

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my lance corpral is expert pistol and rifle. i think in the next go round my LT will be. he watches me and gets dissapointed as hes not at my level. but i dont have college and a gf and lots of parties to hit. i hit the range several times a week and have different challenges with my friends. i also take them to blm so they dont just have range behavior. i feel he does fine and needs to ride his own ride. dont worry about me or my groups, i garandamntee his ass that lapd wont come in and remark on my groupings should there be an incident. he dissagrees as lapd and sherrifs go to the range with me lol
he nees to understand his path, what hes doing. hes a damn fine shot. just doesnt have his expert ribbon at this time. i train the kids. and run their asses through front sight and aegis. i run them hard, my two boys and their wimmin types. i need to know i done right and that i can trust their uncle sam roadtrips that they will come home and the gals can fend for themselves whilste the boys are away at work in foriegn lands.
i did the same thing with horses and motorcycles, private professional sessions and my over sight. for motorcycles i do say go to adventuremotorcycle tours. (admotours.com) im in their online adds



course this was seconds after we finished and not featured ontheir website.


.....
everything is about proper training
 

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shotlady, you are a piece of work, and I mean that in the nicest way. :grin:
 
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shotlady, you are a piece of work, and I mean that in the nicest way. :grin:
That, Sir, is a gross understatement. If I weren't married, I think I would propose to her!!!:p
 

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Remember to while organized training is great you can work on your skillset on your own developing simple drills, shooting against the timer and involving family or friends.

A lot is dependent of course on what your range allows but some simple things you can do. Shoot at 3D type targets like balloons. Inflate different colors and have someone call out a color or combination of colors in an order to be shot. Most ranges would/should not have an issue with balloons stapled to a target. The slightest breeze will make them move and they give an instant response. If you have a place in the country use gallon plastic jugs or plastic 20 oz. bottles. Again instant feedback.

Don't have a fancy shot timer? Not a problem. Itunes among others have shot timer apps either free or for as little as a dollar. Download them onto your device and simply wear the earpiece under or in place of your normal hearing protection. No IPOD? Kids or friends with a whistle do the same thing. The styrofoam wig head make great targets. The kids will enjoy drawing faces on them to shoot at.

Bowling pins are always a favorite and many bowling alleys will give away the broken or damaged pins. Tennis courts always have a supply of trashed balls they usually throw away. Batting cages or little league/softball league always have damages baseballs again that they normally throw away. For the ultimate challenge get golf balls. Start at close range and see how far you can keep hitting it after it comes to a stop.

Trigger time is trigger time and rimfire anything makes sense. If you do not have a .22 copy of your carry/defensive gun no problem. Simply use what you have and practice the fundamentals.

Anything that can be used to get away from the flat paper target that gives feedback will help your ability under stress. While shooting against the timer is nothing like the stress of a real encounter you would be surprised at how fast it will get your heart pumping when you hear the beep.
 
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