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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I know this is gonna touch a nerve, and may have already been touched on here, so if it has been let it die a quick death.

Personally, I'd have to go with traitor. Most of us, I hope anyway, realized long ago that we are under some sort of gov't surveillance since 9/11. I used to sort of be in that business back in the mid '80s and WE DID NOT, to the best of my knowledge anyway, collect any data about US citizens at that time. As a matter of fact, we went to extraordinary means not to. That was the '80s and this is today. IMHO the gov't hasn't yet crossed the line into imposing on my privacy...yet. So, until further evidence comes out that the gov't was doing more than what has been published, I'd have to say traitor. If he divulges info that says otherwise...well, we'll just have to see.
 

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I've heard from all sides of the issue. The privacy advocates are right: Snowden is a hero.

We suspect that the government is spying on us. Of all the information that Snowden has, only about 2 percent of it has been used. Most of that only opened the door to a deeper debate about how far we want Uncle Scam to be able to spy on us without a warrant. If the Fourth Amendment is worth anything at all, it is worth discussing.

Just this week, the NSA has had to admit that they collect phone records from all of us without a warrant. When I was a teen, this was a no brainer - no warrant no phone records. Yet, now this issue is going before the United States Supreme Court at some point. Ultimately the Social Conservatives will probably win and the Fourth Amendment won't be worth wiping your a55 on. Should that happen, it should elicit some response from civil libertarians. Tyranny by any other name is still tyranny.

Quite frankly, I'm tired of agencies like the NSA getting away with lying to Congress and then being rewarded with even more POLICE STATE powers. Thank God Snowden had the courage to make sure we had the debate. Otherwise, it would have been out of sight, out of mind.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 · (Edited)
Guys, I'm also inclined to agree with you. But unless further revelations reveal that the gov't went beyond the "meta"data, they haven't broken the line of invading our privacy, especially if they had FISA approval. Now, if the gov't has...then Snowden is correctly a patriot. But so far, we haven't seen evidence of that, or at least I haven't. But he has so far broken several laws pertaining to security clearances.

Resister, if they collected anything more than this number called this number, I agree with you 100%. Then, it invades on our constitutional right to privacy. And we can have a long and spirited debate on what constitutes our right to privacy...I'll put my lawyer against your lawyer any day...lol
 

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Both , he could have found another way to do what he did. It is already clear they went far beyond collecting numbers .
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 · (Edited)
I stopped a little soon...

At some point, we have to realize that we either have to stop saying "Why didn't the gov't stop this name your event? Or we are just going to have to live with the consequences of the gov't trying to stop a terrorist attack that is planned and financed 5000 miles away in the blind. We can't have it both ways without some sort of leeway. And part of the equation is that we need to, as voters, put the most qualified and intelligent people in office. I can't rant about that enough.

I guess what I'm trying to say is, in today's world, if you don't want the government in it, be prepared for Achmed to interupt your daily routine.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Just saw an article that reports that the NSA is intercepting laptops bought online before they reach their owners and installing malware/ spyware, and then sending them on to their owners, all in secret.
Really, these are the same folks that brought us the Obamacare website? The NSA doesn't have the manpower unless they subcontract it out...
 

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I've from the government and I'm here to help you! One thing I will not tolerate, and I'm out spoken about it at work, Don't bird dog me!!! If you don't like my job performance, fire my ass, or back off!! Those that will give up liberty in the name of temporary security deserve neither!! That's not my quote, but one from someone waaaay smarter than me! I hate like heck someone looking over my shoulder all the time, dammit, I'm a free man and don't need anyones approval to do what I enjoy doing. I'm not harming any one else!!
 

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Patriot.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
I've from the government and I'm here to help you! One thing I will not tolerate, and I'm out spoken about it at work, Don't bird dog me!!! If you don't like my job performance, fire my ass, or back off!! Those that will give up liberty in the name of temporary security deserve neither!! That's not my quote, but one from someone waaaay smarter than me! I hate like heck someone looking over my shoulder all the time, dammit, I'm a free man and don't need anyones approval to do what I enjoy doing. I'm not harming any one else!!
Can I fire your ass?...the government seems to be a little over budget! lol
 

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This will probably piss a few people off, but this is a different look at it. He’s a traitor. There are a LOT of people that (like him) signed non-disclosure agreements to not talk about what they have seen for (I believe) 70 years (making him a traitor). I signed one, and will not talk about what we did no matter what. Why? Because I said I wouldn’t, and if I can’t honor my word, what good am I? We did nothing illegal or against anyone in the USA. But by divulging top secret information he placed other Americans in danger all in the interest of doing what he thought was right (traitor). If they are in fact reading my emails, honestly, I do not care-read them. I am sure they do not care about my boring life, since I am rarely on the phone there is nothing to listen to there either. But think about this logically, the NSA has a lot of computing power-however, they do not have enough to record every single email and phone call generated in this country every day in addition to the rest of the world they have to monitor to watch for bad guys. I think there are people here in this country that have probably done things to get someones attention, and most likely should be watched. Given the liberal’s affinity for foreigners, we have allowed the enemy to enter our borders-how else are they supposed to find them?
 

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Thanks man, I was kinda blowin off steam, but meant every word. At times I get wound up, I'm the kinda guy who gets po'd when folks don't stand at a parade when the American Flag goes by! This goes to bigdog.:) Peace Bro
 

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This will probably piss a few people off, but this is a different look at it. He's a traitor. There are a LOT of people that (like him) signed non-disclosure agreements to not talk about what they have seen for (I believe) 70 years (making him a traitor). I signed one, and will not talk about what we did no matter what. Why? Because I said I wouldn't, and if I can't honor my word, what good am I? We did nothing illegal or against anyone in the USA. But by divulging top secret information he placed other Americans in danger all in the interest of doing what he thought was right (traitor). If they are in fact reading my emails, honestly, I do not care-read them. I am sure they do not care about my boring life, since I am rarely on the phone there is nothing to listen to there either. But think about this logically, the NSA has a lot of computing power-however, they do not have enough to record every single email and phone call generated in this country every day in addition to the rest of the world they have to monitor to watch for bad guys. I think there are people here in this country that have probably done things to get someones attention, and most likely should be watched. Given the liberal's affinity for foreigners, we have allowed the enemy to enter our borders-how else are they supposed to find them?
So you say the ends justify the means? If a soldier is given an immoral command he must follow it? I'm at a loss here, not sure what to believe, but for sure would have no doubts backing the constituition over some executive order!
 

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If non disclosure is all binding then the guy the blew the whistle on Fast and Furious is also a traitor.

The feds don't need a super capacity storage facility in Utah to spy on terrorists. They are collecting info to be used at a later date. If and when they need something on you, they will have it at their fingertips. Phone calls, emails, internet sites you visited, all at the touch of a button.

I think Snowden is a traitor for aiding our enemies. He has provided Russia, China and other countries with secrets he smuggled out of this country.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
This will probably piss a few people off, but this is a different look at it. He's a traitor. There are a LOT of people that (like him) signed non-disclosure agreements to not talk about what they have seen for (I believe) 70 years (making him a traitor). I signed one, and will not talk about what we did no matter what. Why? Because I said I wouldn't, and if I can't honor my word, what good am I? We did nothing illegal or against anyone in the USA. But by divulging top secret information he placed other Americans in danger all in the interest of doing what he thought was right (traitor). If they are in fact reading my emails, honestly, I do not care-read them. I am sure they do not care about my boring life, since I am rarely on the phone there is nothing to listen to there either. But think about this logically, the NSA has a lot of computing power-however, they do not have enough to record every single email and phone call generated in this country every day in addition to the rest of the world they have to monitor to watch for bad guys. I think there are people here in this country that have probably done things to get someones attention, and most likely should be watched. Given the liberal's affinity for foreigners, we have allowed the enemy to enter our borders-how else are they supposed to find them?
Mike, I gotta agree and disagree with you on this. As far as the security agreements, or nondisclosures go, yeah, he signed one, I signed one, you signed one...UNLESS by witholding the information would violate the oath that I took (and I presume you did) to preserve and defend the constitution. So there is an "out" there.

And if the NSA, CIA, FBI or any other alphabet soup agency is listening in on my phone calls, email, texts, ULF transmits or other forms of communication, without a FISA or other court ordered warrant, then they are breaking the law. I do have a right to expect privacy from gov't scrutiny. Now if a suspected terrorist misdials his call and gets me, and the gov't finds that thru metadata and then gets a warrant, then by all means listen to my phone calls. They will be very short and very boring. That is okay. They have not infringed on my right to privacy because a ********* is dyslexic with numbers. They have the responsibility to follow that lead. But that's how it's got to play out.

As far as the gov'ts capabilities today...I don't even want to think about what they can do today...I know what they could do in the '80's.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Inceptor, it wouldn't let me like your post... LIKE
 
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