Prepper Forum / Survivalist Forum banner
1 - 16 of 16 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,373 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Quite often in the survivalist, prepper, and libertarian nature of those movements I find people angry and bothered the government could take their land if the taxes are not paid. That is true. So how can you make sure the taxes are forever paid?

It really isn't rocket science as much as its expensive. My property taxes in NV are about $1500 a year. I actually find that reasonable based on what I own. My dad left me most of this land, some is shared with my brother, and he and I have the same idea - make sure it stays in the family - forever and no matter what. We have property that, we can't imagine, be used by the government for anything so it won't be condemned or taken under the governments right to take property for public need. The only reason they'd be able to take it - or anyone would - is for lack of tax payment. So we've fixed that.

We have established our wills and such to deposit our dollar values into a trust. We've made sure this trust will have about $300,000 in it. There is a formula to that. 2% of $75,000 will raise $1500 a year - the taxes. 2% of the other $225,000 will provide for permanent growth because we know government can raise taxes. But we went a step further with the trust; it identifies a party that will continue on and manage this money. They are authorized to sell hunting rights and a few other things on the property should they need to raise even more money - just incase $300k isn't enough. Is it absolute - no - but its pretty well assured that our taxes will be forever paid beyond us and the land can remain in the family and available to any and all family members for the best possible post SHTF life ever.

Know your tax bill. Divide by .02% and figure out how to get that set aside so the tax bill is forever paid. Add a little for insurance - set - government can't take it - at least not without a fight.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
21,643 Posts
SHTF none of our preplanned finances will madder. You will keep or give up what is yours based other preps you have made.They do not need to use taxes to take your land by law they can just take it. Supreme Court already ruled on that one. What they pay is what they want they decide what fair value is.
We lost 2 acres to high 16 that way. We were not even paid what the land was valued at for taxes.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,563 Posts
If you plan on paying off the government's ability to tax you, you would be better off just giving them what there taxing you on because you don't own it, your renting from the government or get ready to fight the government.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,123 Posts
Some states allow you to take property that is worth say $100,000 which would be taxed at 2% for $2000 and put a 99 year hold on it for development. Basically you make it a game preserve or nature preserve. You still get to use it for all of the reasons you do today with the only exception is that you can't improve on the land. No new buildings. No farming, no adding ponds - the land stays in the current status. BUT! Because of this 99 year wilderness lien or what ever they call it, your $100,000 land is now worth $10,000 and at 2% is $200 annually.

So, some people buy 100 acres of land. Section off 2 to 5 acres for a house and leave 95 acres wild. They put in all of the barns, trails, roads, fences, structures, ponds etc that they think they will need, and then after they are done, they file the 99 year lien freezing development on the land. that gives them 5 acres they can continue to develop and improve and keep at the higher value and then 95 acres that they can completely de-value for tax purposes.

The catch is that if you sell that land the 99 year wilderness lien stays in place. So new owners can not develop either. That will harm your property value. If you paid $100,000 for the land, and now the lien makes it worth $10,000 you will have lost 90% of your property value. For that reason you have to own the land outright before this is done.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,373 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Well I disagree. The government doesn't hold title to it. If you have the taxes they demand paid each year and don't have to worry about that happening it would take a far more anarchist like move on their part to take the land. That is where plan "b" comes in and is just fine.

If you plan on paying off the government's ability to tax you, you would be better off just giving them what there taxing you on because you don't own it, your renting from the government or get ready to fight the government.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
559 Posts
Well I disagree. The government doesn't hold title to it. If you have the taxes they demand paid each year and don't have to worry about that happening it would take a far more anarchist like move on their part to take the land. That is where plan "b" comes in and is just fine.
You're both right. You are renting it from the king, but you aren't better off just giving it to them...

Ripon, I really like your OP, it is a great idea, but in part Ekim is right - property tax is the most insidious tax ever envisioned and should be abolished or at least taken so that a main house and a 160acre plot are tax free!!! IMHO only commercial/rental property should ever be taxed and even then I DO NOT like the idea of property taxes...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,563 Posts
Does the federal government pay the citizens for the federal land they lay claim to all over the country, NO. And the tax payers have to pay to use it if they are even allowed to. The federal and state governments are completely out of control and need to be brought under control by any means necessary by the legal citizens of this country. King George had nothing on our current governments that the current government hasn't gone way overboard on! You can't/don't buy freedoms through taxes.

As far as property taxes, at worst it should be a one time tax on property and that is a stretch, IMO.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,563 Posts
Aside from my belief that the taxes are WAAYYY TO LOW for landowners. I don't even see how you only pay 1500 when the land is probably worth millions. Anyways I believe that the government should own all land and just lease it out to people that want to have land. Instead of massing up land and money and sucking up all the money from the poor the government would own all land and would farm the land themselves and make money from the land as they see fit. They would be much more efficient because they are a larger collective and wouldn't discriminate.
OMG, another one, better put on your flameproof suit, you might need it. Can you say liberal fool......
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,508 Posts
Aside from my belief that the taxes are WAAYYY TO LOW for landowners. I don't even see how you only pay 1500 when the land is probably worth millions. Anyways I believe that the government should own all land and just lease it out to people that want to have land. Instead of massing up land and money and sucking up all the money from the poor the government would own all land and would farm the land themselves and make money from the land as they see fit. They would be much more efficient because they are a larger collective and wouldn't discriminate.
You again!!!! Would you like to come hunting in Montana?? You are more than welcome!! I would be happy to take you out!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,353 Posts
SHTF none of our preplanned finances will madder. You will keep or give up what is yours based other preps you have made.They do not need to use taxes to take your land by law they can just take it. Supreme Court already ruled on that one. What they pay is what they want they decide what fair value is.
We lost 2 acres to high 16 that way. We were not even paid what the land was valued at for taxes.
A guy down the road from me lost his house to eminent domain. He had acres of orange grove. The city came, said he wasn't maintaining the land, took it and built a public park/community park.

Thing was, his grove was a helluva lot nicer than the other ones around.

I'm just about current in my property taxes. It was due on the 10th. It'll be paid first of the month next month.

They are NOT taking my land. If they want my land, they can collect my guns at that time too. Except the guns will be one bullet at a time
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,373 Posts
Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Well since I've seen the "inner" workings of a city; actually a well run city with no debts, no pending bankruptcies and pretty good services I can politely disagree with the need for property tax. I base that because a property requires services no matter who lives on it and eventually we all move on. That eventually means the property's level of services can change at any time and a city must be prepared for it; and where I have a hard time with libertarians is that a person's property might be their castle, but if you castle messes up my castle we got issues - cities generally prevent such issues with codes, planning, engineering and policing - all of which come at a signficant expense - shared under property taxes. Now of course property taxes in many places (Detroit a glowing example) have gotten stupid out of control. Detroit actually has about 10% valuation property taxes - so sad. Valuation shouldn't really matter to a properties tax burden - its needs are all that should matter. I don't see that changing though I wish it could. My OP is merely how to maneuver wtihin the reality of what we have and insure your property can belong to the next generation and probably several if not all future generations. Regardless of the tax burden.

You're both right. You are renting it from the king, but you aren't better off just giving it to them...

Ripon, I really like your OP, it is a great idea, but in part Ekim is right - property tax is the most insidious tax ever envisioned and should be abolished or at least taken so that a main house and a 160acre plot are tax free!!! IMHO only commercial/rental property should ever be taxed and even then I DO NOT like the idea of property taxes...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,373 Posts
Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Two things worth noting and should be noted.

1) In California many people actually sell their properties to governments without eminent domain. Second those same people ask cities in CA to threaten eminent domain because there is a tax benefit to doing so. Its a significant benefit and nearly anyone selling land to a government would be stupid in not asking for it.

2) I've voted to use eminent domain where it wasn't wanted by the owner of a property for the purpose of a high way interchange. The owners didn't want to move, but there was no way to build the interchange around them - just impossible. The city I referred to in the previous post (well run) had it appraised, they suggested the owners have it appraised, and then the city showed the owners the cost of going to court. The city offered them the higher of the two appraisals (actually the cities) and all of the possible litigation burdens in cash up front, and owner became biligerant and said no way; so the process went through the court and the man lost a good $75k that the city paid to stupid lawyers instead of him. I know eminent domain law well, and I know its abused and has been abused but its also essential at times and can be used properly.

A guy down the road from me lost his house to eminent domain. He had acres of orange grove. The city came, said he wasn't maintaining the land, took it and built a public park/community park.

Thing was, his grove was a helluva lot nicer than the other ones around.

I'm just about current in my property taxes. It was due on the 10th. It'll be paid first of the month next month.

They are NOT taking my land. If they want my land, they can collect my guns at that time too. Except the guns will be one bullet at a time
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,373 Posts
Discussion Starter · #13 ·
In effect, my OP, makes it a one time tax. That is what I implied. We set aside enough money to insure the tax is forever paid. Our set aside is - one time. I think you'd be in disagreement with me (politely of course) over what that one time burden might actually be.

Does the federal government pay the citizens for the federal land they lay claim to all over the country, NO. And the tax payers have to pay to use it if they are even allowed to. The federal and state governments are completely out of control and need to be brought under control by any means necessary by the legal citizens of this country. King George had nothing on our current governments that the current government hasn't gone way overboard on! You can't/don't buy freedoms through taxes.

As far as property taxes, at worst it should be a one time tax on property and that is a stretch, IMO.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,373 Posts
Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Sorry I could not disagree more, for the one difference between kings / tyrants and common man has often been the holding of land; if we are to prevent kings/tryants from such controls we must allow the masses to own property. I find that to be a tenant of a free society. My land may now be worth millions but only due to the effort I've put into it over the past 4 years in leveling, tilling, and preparing much of it for farm use - prior to that it held little value as open space and extreme rural property that could be bought very affordably. Again, as I just noted in a previous post, I think the value of land should have little to do wtih the taxes. My land needs little from the government where as a small piece of land in Down Town San Francisco needs a TON of government services. We've decided to use "value" of that land to impose the taxation; which is silly.

Aside from my belief that the taxes are WAAYYY TO LOW for landowners. I don't even see how you only pay 1500 when the land is probably worth millions. Anyways I believe that the government should own all land and just lease it out to people that want to have land. Instead of massing up land and money and sucking up all the money from the poor the government would own all land and would farm the land themselves and make money from the land as they see fit. They would be much more efficient because they are a larger collective and wouldn't discriminate.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
21,643 Posts
I pay more a year in property taxes than payments would be to buy it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,373 Posts
Discussion Starter · #16 ·
This is where property taxes go wrong and they are based on value instead of the needs of the property.

I pay more a year in property taxes than payments would be to buy it.
 
1 - 16 of 16 Posts
Top