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Discussion Starter #1
I used to spend a LOT of time on a handgun range, and I had many opportunities to closely observe other shooters. During this time, I noticed that there are certain telltale signs that someone is about to shoot. These "tells," although not 100% universal, are widespread enough that they are worth noting.

A split second before most people fire, their eyes narrow... they squint a little in anticipation of the blast and flash.

Most shooters, even well trained ones, will lower the muzzle slightly in anticipation of the muzzle rise.

If you are in a "no other options" life or death situation where your attacker is too far to grab, it's possible to use this information to "dodge" the bullet. Timing is everything here. You need to move (and move fast) once they are committed to pulling the trigger but before they can react to adjust their aim. Obviously, you don't stop and congratulate yourself on the Matrix-like move afterwards, your only real option is to close and employ a sudden application of extreme violence.

I had the misfortune of having to test this out back in 1992. I woke up 2 days later in the hospital, where I was told I more or less died in the ambulance... no pulse, no breathing. They said I was dead for just under 4 minutes, but obviously I recovered. My timing was a little off, I guess, but it's not something I want to practice a lot.

Anyway, it's an idea I wanted to share with you prepper types, and if you are LE or security, who knows? Maybe it will save your life one day.
 

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Get off the X

That is the goal in a gun fight, it is amazing how many people can't hit the proverbial broad side of a barn with a pistol.

In a stand up gun fight you should always be moving laterally.

Seriously if someone pulled a gun on me (where i was unarmed) at over 7 feet I would run away like a 5 year old girl, there is a extremely good chance the shooter can't hit a car at 20 feet let alone a moving target.

Within 7 feet I agree step into it and go for the eyes or throat.
 
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Utah Highway Patrolman stops a suspected DUI. Drunk punches UHP then runs gets back in car and drives off. UHP draws and fires his H&K MP 13 reloads twice. Misses not only the drunk but the car as well.

California an attorney is exiting a court house a disgruntled former client attempts to kill him. The attorney places himself behind a small tree. The two men are looking at each other around this tree approx 3' apart the former client opens up with a .22lr revolver and misses 9 times. He is tackled and taken into custody by an off duty police officer.

There are some non shooting folks or should I say non hitting folks on both sides of the badge.
 

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Many years ago, it was the train of thought that people will attempt to shoot around an object rather than through it. As such, we were taught that if a suspect pulled a gun on you, to raise your hand, clipboard, ticket book, whatever, and "block" the muzzle. The bad guys, for the most part, will forget that the bullet can easily penetrate and pass through your hand or most anything else you could have in your hand, and attempt to move the gun "around the object" in an effort to "obtain a good target". At this point, we were taught to either get our weapon and shoot them, or close in and try to disarm them. Obviously this only has the possibility of working in a "non-ambush" situation where the shooter has already determined that they are going to shoot you immediately on contact/opportunity.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Yeah, that could work. How many times have you seen someone hiding behind a couch on TV and the couch somehow soaks up 200 rounds from the endless magazine of some Hollywood special? Same thing when the heavy machine-gun is defeated when someone "takes cover" behind the 3/4" pine boards of a well weathered fence.

If people see this kind of crap often enough, I can imagine how many would assume this is the way it really is.

But hey, it's probably better that they believe that myth, huh?
 

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The ideal situation would be to erect some 2'x6'x3/4" "safety" positions on the approach to your home (on your own land of course). Then when you fire a blast from your shotgun the perps run to the provided "cover" and you put holes in them through the plywood. Or, is that too evil?
 

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Prepadoodle,
That would only work once and then you would have to get more plywood and det cord and caps. Mine you could reuse a few times and longer if you used a rifle or pistol instead of the shotgun.
But you have a point - your way is definitely evil - but no graves either - so, kinda good in a way.
 

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I am an LEO we are currently trained in the 21 foot rule for knife attacks. Is they are within 21 feet with a knife they can get you before you draw and fire. Reaction time is always against the shooter. Most people cant track a moving target. Move at a lateral angle away for the shoot toward cover. If they are chasing you turn a blind corner and wait for them to come. Then extreme violence. People are like dogs once the pray runs they chase.
 

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I was always taught and I now teach fire first. Above all else get the first shot fired. Upon clearing the draw shoot. Even if the first round goes 2 feet in front of ou into the dirt the impact on the other guy is profound and ou win the edge, and that edge saves your life.
 

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The perfect quote from Clint Smith, Thunder Ranch
"If you're not shootin', you should be loadin'. If you're not loadin, you should be movin', if you're not movin', someone's gonna cut your head off and put it on a stick."
 

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I'm lost here, learn to shoot whatever with both eyes open, your dominate eye will rule. Don't believe me, try it. With one eye closed you lose 50% of your field of view, just stands to reason. I shoot scopes, iron sights, whatever with both eyes open. But that's just me, doesn't come natural,, but will aid you in the long run.:)
 

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I was always taught and I now teach fire first. Above all else get the first shot fired. Upon clearing the draw shoot. Even if the first round goes 2 feet in front of ou into the dirt the impact on the other guy is profound and ou win the edge, and that edge saves your life.
I agree with this, although I get ripped on and a lot (all?) of the trainers I've trained with like to use a quote similar to "you can't miss fast enough".

Really? Did you REALLY just tell someone that they should take their time even if it takes you 30 seconds to line it up? Ugh... Now I agree, take your time enough to make a good shot, but if you are in a life and death situation you have to get a shot off to be in the fight, otherwise you are just a victim.
 

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I'm lost here, learn to shoot whatever with both eyes open, your dominate eye will rule. Don't believe me, try it. With one eye closed you lose 50% of your field of view, just stands to reason. I shoot scopes, iron sights, whatever with both eyes open. But that's just me, doesn't come natural,, but will aid you in the long run.:)
I was originally taught to shoot with one eye closed breaking that one has been a pain and sometimes I still slip.
 

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I'm lost here, learn to shoot whatever with both eyes open, your dominate eye will rule. Don't believe me, try it. With one eye closed you lose 50% of your field of view, just stands to reason. I shoot scopes, iron sights, whatever with both eyes open. But that's just me, doesn't come natural,, but will aid you in the long run.:)
That is why I love the Trijicon Acogs and the army loves them also.
 

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That is why I love the Trijicon Acogs and the army loves them also.
I have an accupoint scope and it is flat out amazing, it gathers light better than any other scope I've ever seen by a lot. never got to play with an S&B but have used a NF, high end leuopold, vortex PSTs and a couple other high end pieces of glass. The accupoint itself isn't cheap but it is a great value - the only drawback is that the reticle is mildot and the adjustments are MOA.
 

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I am an LEO we are currently trained in the 21 foot rule for knife attacks. Is they are within 21 feet with a knife they can get you before you draw and fire. Reaction time is always against the shooter. Most people cant track a moving target. Move at a lateral angle away for the shoot toward cover. If they are chasing you turn a blind corner and wait for them to come. Then extreme violence. People are like dogs once the pray runs they chase.
True I remembered I watched an episode about this on mythbusters. :wink:
 
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