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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
My brother and I are having a grand debate.

He is very well prepared. He has everything I can imagine covered right down to the faraday cage protecting the components needed to get his plane in the air for bugging out. Bug out land, weapons, food, water etc etc. so he asks me a simple question. An ounce of gold for $1300 or 2 hand guns with a few magazines, some ammo, and cleaning gear in separate cases.

Clearly there are other choices but the two choices in the table are a Canadian Gold Maple Leaf or

2 - RIA 1911's, 3 magazines each, 200 rounds each, a cleaning kit and case for both.

I opted for the guns. He doesn't want to barter guns. It's strictly for bartering.
 

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Go for the guns. Even if prepared for anything and everything - you can't replace what breaks, gets lost or stolen. I don't believe gold will be a great barter item in the first few years of a big shtf scenario. Tools, food, water, medical supplies, etc will be far more valuable.
 

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I always wear a tiny gold bar around my neck for a reason ;) But i think guns would be more attractive than Gold to me.. Guns put more food on the table than gold ;)
 

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My brother and I are having a grand debate.

He is very well prepared. He has everything I can imagine covered right down to the faraday cage protecting the components needed to get his plane in the air for bugging out. Bug out land, weapons, food, water etc etc. so he asks me a simple question. An ounce of gold for $1300 or 2 hand guns with a few magazines, some ammo, and cleaning gear in separate cases.

Clearly there are other choices but the two choices in the table are a Canadian Gold Maple Leaf or

2 - RIA 1911's, 3 magazines each, 200 rounds each, a cleaning kit and case for both.

I opted for the guns. He doesn't want to barter guns. It's strictly for bartering.
With the guns you can take the gold if the need arises.
 
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Tough call. I would barter FOR guns, but I don't know if I would want to barter those guns for something else. Feel's kind of strange giving something to someone that they could use to kill me with, then take back what they traded and then some. I wouldn't barter ammo either. I just have this weird thing about enabling people I don't know, in a SHTF/WROL scenario, with things they can use to take me out. I also agree with the above statement about gold not being worth much during the initial phase of a long term issue. Though if it were short term, you could really come out on top. If it were, say today, I have no issues trading guns for this or that. Although I usually come out on the short end of the stick. :roll:
 
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I would trade gold for guns, if I needed the guns, risky business because they may simply use the gun offered in trade to take my gold. I would not trade guns for gold.

Given this last go round of political wrangling and proposed legislation aimed at confiscating limiting and otherwise raising Cain over private gun ownership. I'd have to say that blued steel, copper lead and brass are rapidly becoming precious metals in their own right.

So in one manner of speaking it would be simply trading one precious metal for another. In another manner of speaking (TSHTF) throwing your gold bars at the bad guys is not a great defensive tactic, unless you have one heck of an arm.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Funny thing is, and this really bugs me, I mean this really gets under my skin. He would send off an electronic payment to Apmex and wait 7 to 10 days for his gold. And the bugger could walk into the gun store TODAY and walk out with the hand guns, ammo and gear within an HOUR. Do I sound like a pissed off Californian who'd have to wait 10 days to own a gun and is limited to 1 new hand gun purchase every 30 days - YES I am.
 

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If it is strictly for barter, I'd go for the gold over guns, but there would be many other things I would go for over both of them.

In a SHTF situation I will not trade guns/ammo to anyone. If I know you well enough (LONG time friends or family) that I would trade you guns, they will get them for free. No one else would get a weapon that they could then use against me.

A few options instead of gold:
Silver, eagles or junk silver (but this gets heavy, if you are planning on having to carry it) it would be much easier and economical to barter with silver than gold.
High quality knives (or medium quality in great quantity)
Food
Seeds
Books on everything you will need for SHTF
Food
Water filters/treatment
Building materials
Barbed wire
Food
 

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I start any exploration like this with an assignment of probabilities. If there is a 5% chance I will ever see a SHTF scenario, then the gold will increase in value 95% of the time, making it the best choice.

The remaining 5% of the time, the gold would be virtually worthless.

In the 5% of cases where the gold is worthless, let's say the guns would be turned against me 20% of the time, or 1 in 5 times. Obviously, the gold would be better in that case too, assuming someone doesn't just shoot me and take the gold anyway.

So the way I would look at it is that the gold will be better 96% of the time.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
I understand your thinking. I fired off an email to him a few minutes ago and said buy three P95's instead of two RIA 1911's.

No one could possibly understand his situation in detail - I can't possibly present his situation to everyone in great detail. He has his bases covered and needing items for barter is important to his plans (my plans too). That is because we believe we'd need to hire people after SHTF to work for us because there would be work to be done we can't possibly do within the family - or alone. It just takes more people. So how do you pay them? Do you pay them with gold, silver, guns, food, or in my silly opinion - all of them and add to that shelter and security too.

If it is strictly for barter, I'd go for the gold over guns, but there would be many other things I would go for over both of them.

In a SHTF situation I will not trade guns/ammo to anyone. If I know you well enough (LONG time friends or family) that I would trade you guns, they will get them for free. No one else would get a weapon that they could then use against me.

A few options instead of gold:
Silver, eagles or junk silver (but this gets heavy, if you are planning on having to carry it) it would be much easier and economical to barter with silver than gold.
High quality knives (or medium quality in great quantity)
Food
Seeds
Books on everything you will need for SHTF
Food
Water filters/treatment
Building materials
Barbed wire
Food
 

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I wouldn't think in terms of "paying" them at all. I wouldn't want a succession of short term drifters in and out of the place... it just ramps up the exposure to risk.

I would be thinking in terms of making the people you need part of the group on a permanent basis, with equal risks and equal rewards. Give them an equity stake and they will work or fight to the bitter end to make it a success or defend it. You get more loyalty from a partner than you ever will from an employee. As long as they know their well being is dependent on the well being of the entire operation, and that they are much better off there than somewhere else, you shouldn't have many problems.

IMHO, paying people in gold is fine as long as you want them to move on to find a place to spend it. Since I would view each person I let in as a potential threat, I would minimize my risk by looking for long term help only.
 

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Funny thing is, and this really bugs me, I mean this really gets under my skin. He would send off an electronic payment to Apmex and wait 7 to 10 days for his gold. And the bugger could walk into the gun store TODAY and walk out with the hand guns, ammo and gear within an HOUR. Do I sound like a pissed off Californian who'd have to wait 10 days to own a gun and is limited to 1 new hand gun purchase every 30 days - YES I am.
I once told the Ethiopians that if they were hungry, quit bitchin' and move to where the food was. Now I'm telling you, quit bitchin' and move to where the guns are! :lol:
 
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Funny thing is, and this really bugs me, I mean this really gets under my skin. He would send off an electronic payment to Apmex and wait 7 to 10 days for his gold. And the bugger could walk into the gun store TODAY and walk out with the hand guns, ammo and gear within an HOUR. Do I sound like a pissed off Californian who'd have to wait 10 days to own a gun and is limited to 1 new hand gun purchase every 30 days - YES I am.
It's hard to relate to what you are getting at I guess I relate more closely to your brothers situation, since it sounds like the way it is here. no restrictions on the number or waiting period or magazine capacity. But hey the law outlawing the use of drones here just went into effect, so not only can you buy more than one gun they won't use a drone to follow you home from the gun shop.
 

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I once told the Ethiopians that if they were hungry, quit bitchin' and move to where the food was. Now I'm telling you, quit bitchin' and move to where the guns are! :lol:
We've been telling him that for a while now...he's just hard headed and won't listen...So from time to time he treats us with a fine California whine...:lol:
 

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If you are looking at a means to have folks who join you protect the property I would suggest rifles over hand guns. A handgun means an aggressor got WAY too close.
 

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That is because we believe we'd need to hire people after SHTF to work for us because there would be work to be done we can't possibly do within the family - or alone. It just takes more people. So how do you pay them? Do you pay them with gold, silver, guns, food, or in my silly opinion - all of them and add to that shelter and security too.
I would be one of those that will be hired for jobs.. i just know it. I would not be looking for gold. I would be looking for useful items. Food, supplies, heck bum wipe, Items for my family. I would not be willing to take a pistol for work as i would be armed to protect my tools and materials after protecting my wife and son. I think Prepadoodle is right on making the people part of your group..
 

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ALso, IF, *IF* you decide to go the gun route - go the cheapest you can find route. A Les Baer won't be worth proportionally more than a glock which won't be worth more proportionally than a hi-point.

If it comes down to people trading like that for guns - they will pay a premium for ANY gun, but not the premium for a premium gun.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
I agree with that. He is leaning towards Gold but noted his local shop had 2 RIA 1911s but I told him to go with the P95s.

While in a crisis even a hi point would have value we would likely only give firearms to those settling on our property to work the land and such. These people we would defend if needed and hope they could defend us if it came to that. So we would want them to have reasonable qualities I don't see in Hi Points.

As an investment I think Gold is the better option, but we steady have enough invested in the land. IMHO.

ALso, IF, *IF* you decide to go the gun route - go the cheapest you can find route. A Les Baer won't be worth proportionally more than a glock which won't be worth more proportionally than a hi-point.

If it comes down to people trading like that for guns - they will pay a premium for ANY gun, but not the premium for a premium gun.
 
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