[WoadWarrior]

I've noticed a growing trend over the past year and some comments on the recent "hobbies" thread sort of drove the point home, at least enough that it made me want to discuss it here.

I've always just assumed that the vast majority of Christians were the "peace first" or "turn the other cheek" types and always thought I was just different. I've considered myself unusual in that I wouldn't hesitate a microsecond to kill someone who was threatening myself or my family. But it appears that my problem is just that I never asked. I've only been (more) public about prepping for about a year now... and have been slowly learning that most of my Christian friends are extremely well armed and are very prepared (or are diligently working to get that way.) Then, over the last few months, I've seen numerous individuals who have expressed both a Christian and a Prepper background on this forum... and I have to say that I am very pleased to learn that I am not alone in this.

I realize we will all have to internalize our beliefs and accept any consequences for our actions when we are faced with those questions that often get posted here: Would you feed a family that never prepared and has nothing to offer? If traveling, would you walk past an abandoned young girl begging for food or take her with you? Etc....

I realize we would all try to help our fellow man if the situation allowed it with acceptable or no consequences. But... it's when we need to turn the other cheek 180 degrees and walk away that interests me. I'm curious about the scriptural verses that support the concept of prepping. For example, I apply John 15:2 to prepping and figure that a family that didn't prepare equates to a branch that didn't bear fruit and should be cut off and allowed to wither away (and any example should assume that helping them in some way is a detriment to myself or my family.) I also accept that my friends and family may need some "pruning" so that we prosper. I realize that "God helps those that help themselves" is not actually a bible verse... but it sort of rings true to me. Of course, I can always counter that by taking Prov 28:26 slightly out of context... "He who trusts in himself is a fool..." :mrgreen:

Seriously though, does anyone have any examples of verses that support the idea of prepping or ones that help solve the question of when it might be appropriate to "NOT" turn the other cheek and place them in your sights instead?

 

[LunaticFringeInc]

Cant think of any verses that I can quote to back up my thoughts and opinions.

I do think that a majority of Christians are of the peace first or turn the other cheek types. But I am of the opinion that too many take that too literally. While I think God wants us to be humble and to show patience, mercy and compassion, I am not convinced that God wanted you to be a door mat to be walked all over at will or to die needlessly. Its hard to do Gods work when your not of the earth to live his example for the rest to see.

Good post though...might make for a good discussion Sunday tho. There is bound to be some folks there that can "quote" much better than I and perhaps mention a few good quotes for reference. Might turn into a pretty thought provoking discussion.

 

[Deebo]

First, I BELIEVE..and am proud to say so, I dont bring it up often, but I am.
Second, I try to turn the other cheek, but as you said, dont endanger my family, or friends.
Third, I would try to help any child, being hopefully carefull of a trap, Its not a childs fault if someone didnt provide for her. And the future is our children.
As for verses, I know very little, I have to admit.

 

[JPARIZ]

11th Commandment... Thou shalt keep they religion to thyself.

 

[sbasacco]

Definately food for thought....I am not so sure that deep down in the recesses of our beings that we could let someone starve and go off to die knowingly. I am not saying give them the farm, but I would do what I could afford to do in time of crisis and let them go knowing that I did the best that I could. I am also aware that you cannot save everyone either.

 

[inceptor]

Luke 22:36 And he said unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise a wallet; and he that hath none, let him sell his cloak, and buy a sword. ASV

Jesus was not a pacifist.

 

[rice paddy daddy]

Luke 22:36 And he said unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise a wallet; and he that hath none, let him sell his cloak, and buy a sword. ASV

Jesus was not a pacifist.

You are quite correct.
For a number of years I struggled with my part in the Vietnam war, specifically some of my actions. I found some measure of peace after attending bible studies and doing my own research into God, soldiers, war, etc.
I ultimately became involved in Pointman International Ministries to help fellow vets.
The bible is full of references, both Old and New Testament. Somewhere at the house I have a long list of verses I found.

 

[dwight55]

Luke 22:36 And he said unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise a wallet; and he that hath none, let him sell his cloak, and buy a sword. ASV

Jesus was not a pacifist.

Add to that: Mark 12:17 "And Jesus answering said unto them, Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's. And they marvelled at him."

1. Jesus was not a pacifist, . . .

2. Jesus knew and approved that we need to survive in this world until His return, . . . and asked us only to separate the requirements of the world from the requirements of His in that day to day life. He also approved and provided a "basic instructions before leaving earth" book: the Bible, for us to have, read, enjoy, and follow to the best of our individual circumstances.

Mother Theresa could never have accomplished her desired mission with an M60 in her left hand any more than Billy Graham could have evangelized the masses he did with a NYSE ticker tape machine in his hotel room 24/7.

We lesser mortals are not tasked with the responsibilites they had, but we are tasked with the responsibilites of ourselves and our families, and to that end, the Basic Instructions Before Leaving Earth also gives us another very pointed statement: 1 Tim 5:8 "But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel."

Not all will agree, . . . but I truly accept the standard that within the word "provide" comes housing, clothing, food, shelter, instruction, and protection. I was tasked with providing for them, . . . and will as long as I humanly can.

May God bless,
Dwight

 

[jc-hunter]

I am a Christian and basically I can tell you that there is goodness in the world and also evil. I will do my best to kindle and foster goodness, truth , integrity, and courage. But , at the same time, I will not hesitate to eliminate elements of evil. One of the things that has brought the world to this point is " grey area". Man prospers much better in a world of 'black and white", or in other words, "a line in the sand", or 'yes or no". Not "maybe , if-." Grey area only allows for excuses and failures. An example of "grey area" is "political correctness". This keeps people from really speaking their minds. I believe the line in the sand is approaching quickly. And in the end , we will be better for it.

 

[Lucky Jim]

does anyone have any examples of verses that..help solve the question of when it might be appropriate to "NOT" turn the other cheek and place them in your sights instead?

When they came to arrest Jesus, his righthand man Peter whipped out his sword and whacked the high priest's flunkey across the head with it, slicing off his ear.
"Then Simon Peter, who had a sword, drew it and struck the high priest's servant, cutting off his right ear"-John 18:10

Jesus told Peter off for doing it, but the fact remains he allowed him to carry it in the first place, probably as a deterrent to muggers on their travels.
So if a saint (Peter) toted a weapon and DIDN'T turn the other cheek I'd think we can do the same IF the situation warrants it.
None of us want to turn nasty unless we HAVE to. Al Capone summed it up nicely with- "If somebody messes wid me, I'm a-gonna mess wid him!"
Heck if we'd turned the other cheek in WW2 Hitler would have been in London and the Japanese in Washington..

"Raise a banner on a bare hilltop,I have summoned my warriors to carry out my wrath..
The Lord is mustering an army for war. They come from faraway lands,
from the ends of the heavens, the Lord and the weapons of his wrath,
to destroy the whole country.. and destroy the sinners within it" -Isaiah 13:2-9

After capturing Baghdad International Airport-

 

[9UC]

Luke 22:36 And he said unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise a wallet; and he that hath none, let him sell his cloak, and buy a sword. ASV Jesus was not a pacifist.

You are quite correct. For a number of years I struggled with my part in the Vietnam war, specifically some of my actions. I found some measure of peace after attending bible studies and doing my own research into God, soldiers, war, etc. I ultimately became involved in Pointman International Ministries to help fellow vets. The bible is full of references, both Old and New Testament. Somewhere at the house I have a long list of verses I found.

For several months now, I have used the above scripture as part of my signature line on a couple of gun forums I frequent. Had a retired L.A. LEO as a Bible Study leader who first brought that particular verse to my attention. I carry, even at church, and I think he had spotted it the first day I attended.

BTW, I don not talk religion, I talk of the Lord Jesus Christ. My feeling that the greater part of the woes of not only our society, but the world in general, is that there far too many believers in of an "11th Commandment". I find that I'm not impressed with it. Since WWII we, as a nation, have striven to take God out of our society and replace it with nothing or the likes of what we now refer to as a government. No, I'm not religious, I don't have religion, I am a Christian and therefore it is a part of who and what I am because of "I Am"

 

[rice paddy daddy]

For several months now, I have used the above scripture as part of my signature line on a couple of gun forums I frequent. Had a retired L.A. LEO as a Bible Study leader who first brought that particular verse to my attention. I carry, even at church, and I think he had spotted it the first day I attended.

BTW, I don not talk religion, I talk of the Lord Jesus Christ. My feeling that the greater part of the woes of not only our society, but the world in general, is that there far too many believers in of an "11th Commandment". I find that I'm not impressed with it. Since WWII we, as a nation, have striven to take God out of our society and replace it with nothing or the likes of what we now refer to as a government. No, I'm not religious, I don't have religion, I am a Christian and therefore it is a part of who and what I am because of "I Am"

I could only "like" your post, since there is no button for "hip! hip! hooray!"
Well said, my friend.

 

[Lucky Jim]

...I don't have religion, I am a Christian and therefore it is a part of who and what I am because of "I Am"

Yeah, Jesus simply wants pals like he said- "You're my friends if you follow me. I don't call you servants, but I call you friends"- (John 15:15)

In his autobiography "Baptism of Fire" about his life in the SAS regiment, Frank Collins tells how they were surprised to find a small well-thumbed Bible among the contents of a colleagues rucksack who'd been killed in action, because none of them suspected he was into Jesus.
The moral is that you don't have to go to church or be baptised or any razzmatazz like that to be a pal of Jesus.

In fact a lot of churchgoers are not his pals at all, we know that because he said so himself- "Not all who call me "Lord,Lord" will enter the kingdom of heaven. Then I'll tell them plainly, I never knew you, get away from me" (Matt 7:21-23)
I come up against them all the time in religious discussion forums and it's great fun kicking their butts..

Jesus said-"You have one teacher, me" (Matt 23:10)
and he can be found easily enough in just a simple gospel like this costing just a few pennies, we don't need organised religion to act as middlemen between us and him!

 

[Lucky Jim]

....does anyone have any examples of verses that support the idea of prepping?

Jesus speaking of the end of the world in Mark ch 13-

"Wars, rumours of wars, false christs, earthquakes, famines, persecutions, darkened sun and moon, falling stars, shaken planets.
Pray that this will not take place in winter, because those will be days of distress unequalled from the beginning until now, and never to be equalled again.
If the Lord had not cut short those days, no one would survive.
Be on guard! Be alert! You do not know when that time will come.
What I say to you, I say to everyone: 'Watch!"

 

[dwight55]

As a pastor, . . . there are some conflicts inside that most other folks don't have to deal with.

But one conflict I came to terms with a long time ago, . . . the United States of America does NOT figure in the Exekiel / Daniel / Matthew / Mark / Luke / Revelation prophesies, . . . or at least it is not apparent if she does.

That being said, . . . we will have to come down a notch or two in our "world" standing and ability, . . . and I'm not sure how that will be accomplished.

I'm just making sure I understand that if it happens on MY watch, . . . it will be over my objections, . . . however dire they may become.

We DO live in exciting times, . . . and that is what this forum is all about, . . . makes life interesting.

May God bless,
Dwight

 

[Deebo]

Glad to see so many of us here.
once a "close friend" told me he didn't believe in Jesus, and I explained to him that I would try and help him believe, and I promised him, "with your last breath you will want to believe" and that he would be buried a GOD fearing individual. I wasnt there when his nephew shot and killed him, but I was there -at the church- to bury him and grieve with his family, and to pray that he made the journey to HEAVEN.
Yes, I know I dont usually talk politics or religion, buit as the man stated above, the govt has repeatedly and succesfully stripped away at GOD, and has tried to seperate people from GOD. Doesn't the constitution gaurantee "GOD GIVEN RIGHTS"?

 

[Denton]

11th Commandment... Thou shalt keep they religion to thyself.

That is in direct violation of the Great Commission, which is more important than your addition. Sorry!

 

[Denton]

There are many examples of being prepared. I think most of us know them. I also believe that there is no reason to believe Jesus was a wimp, as he is often painted for nefarious reasons.

Finally, there was reason for selling a cloak to purchase a sword if one was needed, and having two was good.

I do not want to kill another human being, but that is not up to me. Thou Shalt Not Murder (proper transliteration), and I won't, but that does not mean I will not kill if forced.

I pray none of us have to resort to violence, whether it be in self defense or in the face of tyranny, but that is, as I said, not always up to us.

 

[kyletx1911a1]

No that i can find that the Lord said you could not defend yourself
Or your family, God went to war many many times.
He fought evil, as we must. He does not tolerate a coward
But for me i will turn the other cheek, as long as you are not trying to kill me or mine.

 

[rice paddy daddy]

There are many examples of being prepared. I think most of us know them. I also believe that there is no reason to believe Jesus was a wimp, as he is often painted for nefarious reasons.

Finally, there was reason for selling a cloak to purchase a sword if one was needed, and having two was good.

I do not want to kill another human being, but that is not up to me. Thou Shalt Not Murder (proper transliteration), and I won't, but that does not mean I will not kill if forced.

I pray none of us have to resort to violence, whether it be in self defense or in the face of tyranny, but that is, as I said, not always up to us.

And He sure didn't like the money changers and various others who were defiling His Father's temple. Jesus used more than words to run them out.