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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Just as for the sake of comparison I weighed a few loaded rounds in various calibers. Obviously there will be a slight change depending on particular bullet weight, load size, manufacture, but this difference is nominal compared to the difference between calibers.

Weight shown is in Grams.

.22lr - 3.1 (hollow point or solid)
.22 Magnum - 3.9
.380 ACP 9.3
.45 ACP 21.1
.44 Magnum 27.9
7.62 x 39 16.4 / 18.2 (surplus FMJ will be aprox. 16.2)
7.62 x 54 25.9 (surplus may be slightly lighter)
270 Win. 24.7
.308 Win. 24.6
8mm Mauser 24.7 / 26.4 (surplus / modern)
12ga. 55.7 (00 Buck, 2 3/4" Magnum)

Sooo, for EACH 12ga. round, I can carry EIGHTEEN rounds of .22lr in my pack. Either one is proven lethal with a head shot (for MANY MANY years the biggest grizzly bear ever killed had been taken with a single shot .22lr). And one would at least expect and hope more ammunition would be spent on taking game than being used against life threatening assailants.

View attachment 2660

Something to think about is all...

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Think I would take the .308 hands down as the most versatile/effective and for small game I have some conibear traps which survival schools teach are more effective than hunting.
That's a REALLY good point about the Conibears! Another reason to carry paracord to. Conibears are ideal, but the 550 paracord has 7 small STRONG individual strands inside that make good snare traps in a pinch. ;)
 

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I know a 1000 rnds of 9 mm 117 gr weighs 36 lbs
1000 rnds of 5.56x 45 62 gr weighs 36 lbs
1000 rnds 7.62x 51 (308) 147 gr weighs 72 lbs

So for long term carrying the 9 mm is out because for the same weight the 5.56x45 has 3 times the energy.

The 7.62x 51 vs 5.56x45 is a fair trade off the 7.62x51 is almost exactly twice as powerful as the 5.56x45 but at twice the weight. So the deciding factor would be for me is if I have to carry all my ammo such as a bug out situation or am I defending a fortified area like my home where I do not need to worry about how much the ammo weighs.
Just a side note every one says the 5.56x45 is a wimpy cartage but it has the same muzzle energy as the civil war Springfield rifles that everyone thought was so devastating. The large caliber cartridges like the 30-06 of WW-1 fame came about because the ideal of warfare at the time was thought that opposing armies would fight eachother at over 1000 yards, where one side would fire a volley at the opposing side. Not actually aiming at individual soldiers. That is why if you look at some old rifle the rear sight can be raised up and is calibrated to 1200 yards.
 

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22LR is an extremely valuable carry caliber if you are forced to bug out on foot. I can't fathom that as at the very least I'd use a bicycle.

There is also, to a lessor degree, a space issue. 9mm takes up less space then 223/5.56mm. There is also a concealability issue. While I know many
people enjoy short 10.5 inch AR's and the 223/5.56mm is attractive in that realm its not super concealable. I like the idea of being able to conceal my
weapon.
 

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22 is just fine for killing small game but I just will never consider it a self defense round. ya I know in the perfect shot placement it could be lethal but how many people out there have that actual skill under duress I say maybe 2% to 3% at best? just my thoughts. Carry what you know will work for you best, I know my limits and I am not a excellent marksman. My personal skill dictates I use something that will be a little more forgiving with my skill level. a 22 in the average Joe's hands 9 times out of 10 is going to be alot of wasted ammo.

My belief is that I rather have half the rounds with me and be more capable than having twice as much and it be almost useless. Know your limitations and plan according to you skill level. I have had this personal debate for about the last year on buying a 22. I have decided that it just does not fit into my needs.

just a little something to think about.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
"Self defense" is going to be at 15' or less range. If you want to see some REAL silliness check out the gun forums where they spend weeks arguing over the most precise sights to use on their "self defense guns". If anybody can come up with a story they feel is believable enough to tell police about how a 25 yard shot was "self defense"... It would be movie worthy!

Personally I'm pretty sure I can pull off a 15' head shot EVERY time without lasers and red dot sights. On a dark night, under deres, holding my breath, on one leg, while chewing gum, and holding a peanut butter and jelly sandwich in my off hand. But that's just me.
 

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Just as for the sake of comparison I weighed a few loaded rounds in various calibers. Obviously there will be a slight change depending on particular bullet weight, load size, manufacture, but this difference is nominal compared to the difference between calibers.

Weight shown is in Grams.

.22lr - 3.1 (hollow point or solid)
.22 Magnum - 3.9
.380 ACP 9.3
.45 ACP 21.1
.44 Magnum 27.9
7.62 x 39 16.4 / 18.2 (surplus FMJ will be aprox. 16.2)
7.62 x 54 25.9 (surplus may be slightly lighter)
270 Win. 24.7
.308 Win. 24.6
8mm Mauser 24.7 / 26.4 (surplus / modern)
12ga. 55.7 (00 Buck, 2 3/4" Magnum)

Sooo, for EACH 12ga. round, I can carry EIGHTEEN rounds of .22lr in my pack. Either one is proven lethal with a head shot (for MANY MANY years the biggest grizzly bear ever killed had been taken with a single shot .22lr). And one would at least expect and hope more ammunition would be spent on taking game than being used against life threatening assailants.

View attachment 2660

Something to think about is all...

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Apples and Oranges

Yes I agree there is a post of a grizzly being killed with a .22, but there area LOT MORE cases of a grizzly charging through 6 rounds of .357 and .44 so if you think the "golden bullet" will save you then sleep well.

The point is every cartridge you mentioned has a specific purpose either for short range defense or long range shooting.

In a home defense situation give me a 12 and get the hell out of my way,

Foraging, the .22 is a awesome weapon

Hunting .243-.308 is the obvious choice.

To deduce potency of a cartridge by its total weight is foolishness

So we should all just own .177 air rifles by your logic?
 

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crew cab and tires pasts 029.JPG Let see 36 lbs of ammo a rifle 7 lbs minimum thats 43 lbs 1 gal of water another 7 lbs no food no knife no lite no way to start a fire no clothes no boots no ruck no assault pack no magazines no 1st aid no radio no tools, now im not mocking you but unless you are bugging out in a vehicle you aint gonna carry all that crap I believe a combat load of ammo is 210 - 300 rounds. plan ahead do you really think you are going to bug out with a backpack ???? organize equip plan and practice. Microsoft Excel is great for your gear lists. Survival as follows Water, Food, shelter,
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 · (Edited)
Apples and Oranges

Yes I agree there is a post of a grizzly being killed with a .22, but there area LOT MORE cases of a grizzly charging through 6 rounds of .357 and .44 so if you think the "golden bullet" will save you then sleep well.

The point is every cartridge you mentioned has a specific purpose either for short range defense or long range shooting.

In a home defense situation give me a 12 and get the hell out of my way,

Foraging, the .22 is a awesome weapon

Hunting .243-.308 is the obvious choice.

To deduce potency of a cartridge by its total weight is foolishness

So we should all just own .177 air rifles by your logic?
Just say no to drugs! Go back and read again. Where did you see anything about home defense??? There WAS mention of BOB. As well as it being a simple comparison for people to consider.
 

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THIS

There were some people on a political forum ragging on the police officers who shot two innocent people in Times Square last weekend. The same folks who complain regularly about how much money govt spends wants to know why they weren't trained to aim better. I remember my firearms instructor - who passed recently and who's job I have right now telling us if you take time to aim you better look good for the funeral your attending - your own.

"Self defense" is going to be at 15' or less range. If you want to see some REAL silliness check out the gun forums where they spend weeks arguing over the most precise sights to use on their "self defense guns". If anybody can come up with a story they feel is believable enough to tell police about how a 25 yard shot was "self defense"... It would be movie worthy!

Personally I'm pretty sure I can pull off a 15' head shot EVERY time without lasers and red dot sights. On a dark night, under deres, holding my breath, on one leg, while chewing gum, and holding a peanut butter and jelly sandwich in my off hand. But that's just me.
 

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In a Bug Out situation, my wife will carry a .22 pistol and a 10/22 scoped rifle. She likes both and is skillful with both. She would also, most likely hesitate to kill an attacker. The other side of the coin is, I will carry a 9mm , 17+1 on one hip, a .45 acp 9+1 on the other hip, and a 7.62x39 , 40+1 for my battle rifle, and will not hesitate. Best of both worlds. Team work is very important. I would also argue with a previous poster about self defense being 15'. This post is about SHTF BOB situation. At that point self defense is whatever distance I say it is. I could be 150 yds if someone is shooting at me. And the police , lawyers, etc. are history at that point.
 
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