[Mass Mike]

Hi all,
I know that I am adding to an age old debate but I had a question in regards caliber, spec. 9mm. I have read in many places from many folks who would not trust their life to a 9mm pistol but would always opt for .40 or .45ACP as a personal protection caliber. I know that there are folks who post here with significant military or LE experience. I was wondering if anyone has ever seen or heard of someone who was well hit by a 9mm and kept right on coming. I know that we are usually inclined to want the biggest and best of anything, but while I have read many things about people who were down on the 9mm, but I couldn't find much "proof" of it failing to stop a bg where a larger caliber round would have taken care of business. Any thoughts?
Thanks as always.
Mike

 

[HuntingHawk]

All the BS about 9mm comes military ball ammo. You are not restricted to military ball ammo. SJSP is my choice but HP is also an option. A quality 9mm pistol & you have the option of 9mm +P or +P+. Speed & impact energy exceeding 45ACP & carry more rounds per magazine then either of the other two mentioned calibers.

 

[Slippy]

The best gun is the one that you have. I do not want to get shot with a BB gun let alone a .50 cal.

I have long said that if you give me my two young nephews loading a pile of magazines and a Ruger 10/22 I can keep a group of bad guys coming up my driveway from ever reaching my house. That is if they are unarmed or armed with throw away thug guns. However if said thugs are armed with AR 15s or better they will eventually take me out unless I am well covered. Having said that, there is an age old response that a criminal probably ain't gonna stop and care if it is a 9mm, 380, 40, or 45 that shot him.

 

[MI.oldguy]

Talking about calibers is like the ak vs ar's and, actually a rifle or a shotgun would be the first thing I would pick up if I could before I would use my pistol.shooting them a little farther out could very well discourage the lot if they see their group going down before they make it even near my door.

 

[retired guard]

Any handgun round is a lousy stopper. All calibers succeed all calibers fail. I have seen excellent results from a .25 acp (No I don't carry one) I have read of spectacular failures of 9mm and 45 acp. Shot placement is the best predictor of success. Shot placement can be predicted sometimes by the reason some one picked a particular weapon or caliber. If a person picked a 9mm with the idea that "I'll have so many shots I won't have to aim". Expect bad things for him. If a person chose a .45 acp on the premise that "Any hit with this will be fatal". Expect bad things for him. Many things can effect what happens when bullets impact people drugs, mental illness,rage, sense of duty and sheer cussed meanness! Pick a good weapon and caliber that suits your needs and practice till you get hits and keep practicing. Carry on and stay safe.

 

[Moonshinedave]

Just a little food for thought:

 

[retired guard]

Interesting video Dave I kind of wonder what difference it would have made if the 9mm was a 115 grain instead of a 147 grain?

 

[rice paddy daddy]

Any handgun round is a lousy stopper. All calibers succeed all calibers fail. I have seen excellent results from a .25 acp (No I don't carry one) I have read of spectacular failures of 9mm and 45 acp. Shot placement is the best predictor of success. Shot placement can be predicted sometimes by the reason some one picked a particular weapon or caliber. If a person picked a 9mm with the idea that "I'll have so many shots I won't have to aim". Expect bad things for him. If a person chose a .45 acp on the premise that "Any hit with this will be fatal". Expect bad things for him. Many things can effect what happens when bullets impact people drugs, mental illness,rage, sense of duty and sheer cussed meanness! Pick a good weapon and caliber that suits your needs and practice till you get hits and keep practicing. Carry on and stay safe.

Can't put it much better than that.
About 10 years ago I took some training courses put on by local LEO's. There I learned that a bad guy with a fully oxygenated brain is capable of conscious effort for up to 18 seconds even if you hit him with a fatal shot in the first instant. The only way to get an immediate result was a brain or spinal shot. It was suggested by the instructors to try to hit the pelvic girdle, because if you can break bone there you will most likely stop forward movement.
If I know I'm going to be in a gunfight, I want a rifle.

 

[tango]

Given the quality and options of ammo today, there's no reason not to use a 9mm,
course there's also no reason not to use 45acp either.

 

[Arizona Infidel]

Those that say shot placement trumps caliber are correct. This doesn't mean caliber has nothing to do with anything. The proponents of 9mm defend it by saying it expands. Well, a .45 doesn't shrink.

 

[retired guard]

Those that say shot placement trumps caliber are correct. This doesn't mean caliber has nothing to do with anything. The proponents of 9mm defend it by saying it expands. Well, a .45 doesn't shrink.

Yes and since it doesn't shrink you can't get as many in the magazine. They are both good choices carry what you are comfortable with.

 

[roy]

Prolly 10mm is better than both.

 

[rice paddy daddy]

But, shot placement in the real world is a matter of luck. Unless you are up against some idiot who doesn't grasp the concept of fire and movement, and just stands there.

 

[csi-tech]

I carried a Beretta 92F on duty for a decade. Trusted it implicitly. The military has been carrying them forever. 9mm is a fine choice.

 

[paraquack]

The 1911 is closer to forever than the M-9

 

[Smitty901]

9MM will do the job. Nothing inherently wrong with 115gr ball other than it does not sound as cool as 147 gr jack hollow point zombie kill magic bullet

 

[indie]

No way. Just look at The Walking Dead. They consistently get head shots whether they're sitting still or driving 50MPH in a car, so it must be true. You just must not practice enough. :lol:

But, shot placement in the real world is a matter of luck. Unless you are up against some idiot who doesn't grasp the concept of fire and movement, and just stands there.

 

[retired guard]

I hope the next time I'm shot at that the script writer is on my side.

 

[LunaticFringeInc]

Im gonna do some 40 S&W bashing here...

Get the 9mm or 45 of your choice that you shoot better. Pistols really kind of suck when it comes to putting someone down for the count real fast. When they do shot placement was usually a more mitigating factor than the caliber used or the bullet design used. The 9 can give you a bit of an advantage due to the much higher capacity over a typical 45 in a more compact package which if your CC might be an issue. But even in the lowley Hardball configuration the 45 ACP has a pretty dang good record for putting the hurt on a bad guy, put one of the better hollow points designed through it though and it can make some pretty big holes.

The 40 S&W is a comprimise round that solve a whole lot of nothing. It came about as a way to achieve the low recoil and modest performance of the FBI's 10mm load allowing for a smaller gun grip on a gun making it easier for those with smaller hands to use. The FBI recruits a lot of females who are petite and smaller in stature and don't have as much hand strength right out the starting gate. About half the men working for the FBI are metrosexuals who never fired a gun until they went to the academy. Having a high grade point average is more important than being a Manly-Man and the ability to preform in physically demanding task! A equal sized gun will hold a few more rounds than a 45 but not nearly as many as the 9. The other advantage the 40 had was any 9mm gun platform that was out would easily allow manufactures to field a new weapon without having to develop a whole new platform around the cartridge with minimal modifications. Its neather beast nor fowl. Its just as expensive as the 45 but considerably smaller in diameter. So what exactly was achieved by the 40 S&W? How many folks argue the merits of the 16 gauge over the 12 or the 20 gauge? Exactly what I thought!

 

[roy]

One frequently used measure of the effectiveness of a round is muzzle energy. From the Glock owners manual for the standard size Glock: 45 ACP 460 Joules; 10mm, 750 j; 40 S&W, 525; .357 Sig, 765 j; 9mm 520 j 380. The 10mm was developed because the 45 ACP was lacking.