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Hey everybody,

I've only posted here twice and the community is great, so I thought I'd throw this one out as well:

In another thread I posted my "arsenal:" a Glock 23, Ruger GP-100, AR-15 and a Mossberg 500.

People have directed me to a number of great .22s, which I am going to research ASAP, but this long-range rifle is a bit more specialized. I'll try to give some specifics:

Cost: $1250 is the ceiling.

Location: I live in a "rural suburb" area in Missouri, with some neighbors around and highway access nearby-ish, but my neighbors are all very far apart from me and there is a pretty thick woods area behind my house. I own the acre or so behind it and am outside city limits, so when permitted I can occasionally take a deer from the stand I have at the far rear of my property some 300 yards into the woods. I'm around a lot of people's "land" so I hunt with my neighbors on occasion and we have a good amount of game, mostly deer and rabbit but you find the occasional turkey or goose out there too.

Me: I currenty live alone and am an experienced shooter, so I can handle a hot rifle. (My Mossberg has a 3" barrel cut down to 19"; my shoulder hates me.) I have the resources to keep my guns in good shape and secure. This could be a rifle for hunting or whatever other task may arise in a SHTF situation.

So, what do y'all think? How do I get the best rifle for a prepper's use given those conditions?
 

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Personally, and this is just my opinion, I would get a rifle similar to a Savage FP-10 (I PREFER Remington 700's for a number of reasons...and own several) in .308 Winchester given the budget you have to work with. Quality glass will cost you about what the rife does or possibly more.

I chose a Remington 700 VLS in 308 Winchester and mounted a Springfield Gen III 6x18 Mil-Dot scope. Is it the coolest? No. Is it the most accurate? No. But here is what it is...

(a) It shoots well under an inch at 100 yards. If your a paper plate inside 600 yards, and the wind is blowing less than 30 mph your going to have a very bad day in all likelihood if I am the one behind the gun! Plus I did not have to break the bank to get enough practice in to get that good.

(b) The 308 Winchester is more than enough gun to shoot just about anything in North America at about as far a distance as I have any business shooting at game. With a 100 yard zero, a handloaded 165-168gr high BC bullet will leave the 26 inch barrel at about 2800 fps and drop about 22-24 inches at 400 yards and still have about 1500-1800 fpe at the business end. Unless your facing a charging sow Grizzly protecting cubs at "in your face ranges" that should be enough to pick up the check!

(c) Its a very efficient chambering! Recoil is mild and most folks should have no problem becoming a very good skilled rifleman with it, even a teen or petite woman should be able to handle this in style. If your a reloader, this is even better. It takes a very reasonable charge of powder allowing you to stretch a pound of powder out very well making the most of what you got. 30 cal bullets are about as cheap as they come and when a new bullet design hits the market it almost always comes out in 30 cal first! The military uses this and will for sometime. So while ammo may not always be available commercially loaded, once fired brass is not likely to be extinct anytime soon which means as long as you have powder, primers and bullets your still in the game! The 308 is a good balance of power, accuracy and trajectory all blended into one cartridge!!! It gives up very little to commercially loaded 30-06 rounds unless you shoot 180 gr or heavier bullets and allows for a short action instead of the standard and heavier long action gun. Every manufacture who is anybody makes at least one gun chambered in 308 - that equals a large selection for you to choose from!!!

The gun cost me 564.00 fun dollars new in box when I special ordered it from a pawn shop that had an FFL. The scope cost me about 650.00 or so. It shot .75 inch groups with surplus Agentine NATO Ball which is not known for accuracy, right out of the box after fire lapping the barrel. I rest my case!
 

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30-06 will do everything you need in north America.
Ruger, Winchester, Remington, Savage are all good
Go to a shop and handle as many as possible, get the one that you like.
Buy ammo, a reloading kit and supplies and never look back
 

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With 300 yard maximum range a 308 Savage, Remington, Ruger, or most any national brand will be workable for you. I like the Remington and Ruger but the Savage is getting better - they have a very good trigger from the factory. Quality glass on your rifle is a must but You don't need to spend a fortune on it. Look at some scopes locally and find one that has crisp clear optics in the power (range) that you are looking for. You want the center of the cross-hairs very fine for 300 yard shooting and stay away from mil-dots unless you know how to use them. They add cost with little benefit unless you are going to be shooting a lot farther than 300 yards.
 
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A Savage bolt gun in 308WIN or 30/06 with a preference to anything you might purchase in the future to match up the ammo. If the future you might purchase a M1 Garand then bolt gun go with 30/06.
With you price range you should be able to afford a quality scope.
 

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Agree.
Quality glass is at least as important as the rifle you choose.
Buy the best you can afford.
Leopold scopes are awesome and have the best warranty in the business.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Here's a real challenge: for a bolt action, I would definitely prefer one that is able to be configured for a left-handed shooter. It's never been a huge problem with my other firearms, but with this one it could get really troublesome. Is it a relatively easy procedure to switch, or does one need a specific gun for the operation to happen?

Thanks!
 

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With 300 yard maximum range a 308 Savage, Remington, Ruger, or most any national brand will be workable for you. I like the Remington and Ruger but the Savage is getting better - they have a very good trigger from the factory. Quality glass on your rifle is a must but You don't need to spend a fortune on it. Look at some scopes locally and find one that has crisp clear optics in the power (range) that you are looking for. You want the center of the cross-hairs very fine for 300 yard shooting and stay away from mil-dots unless you know how to use them. They add cost with little benefit unless you are going to be shooting a lot farther than 300 yards.
I will second that motion PaulS! Furthermore I will definitely agree to what you said about Mil-Dot recticles. My experience with 21 tears in the military and about 30 plus years shooting further than 400 yards support my opinion as well. Where I will differ from you though is I do have a preference for duplex recticles on straight up hunting guns.

When I got my last 700, I got it for hunting but also for long range shooting at unknown distances as well and wanted something I could afford to shoot often! Im very well versed in using Mil-Dots as you might imagine so it works very well and very fast for me as compared to some of the newer and easier to use calibrated drop trajectory scopes that are out there that might work better for the average Joe.

I agree quality glass is a must! I don't care about brands too much, but if I cant get a quality piece of glass that will hold a zero, give good crisp adjustments and provide a crystal clear view, I will pass it up irregardless of the brand name on it. 800.00 Ziess or Leupold VX III's are very nice but not an absolute necessity. If one shops around a bit, you can find some pretty decent glass for 200-300 or so bucks.
 

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A Savage bolt gun in 308WIN or 30/06 with a preference to anything you might purchase in the future to match up the ammo. If the future you might purchase a M1 Garand then bolt gun go with 30/06.
With you price range you should be able to afford a quality scope.
In such a case I would probably default to a 30-06. I do have a Garand and still went with the 308...but then again I also have a FAL! Definitely a consideration to also think about. Glad you brought that up!
 

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No, the receiver is configured opposite. A left handed bolt gun you have to start with a receiver built for left side bolt. HOWEVER, I have seen left handed bolt guns from Savage.
 

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Personally, in my experience most long range guns are nothing but fantasy weapons in most people hands. They can't really use them well enough to hit anything at long distance, and for the most part don't really need to. Long range shots aren't very practical when rounds need to be conserved and game can't be lost and missed. People have day dreams of being a high speed, Navy Seal, Green Beret, Ninja, Predator, sniper from the 5th black ops team of Delta Ultima, but that doesn't make them one. You not going to hiding under bushes all the shtf time sniping people from a 1000 yards away. Or likely even 200 yards away. A good heavy caliber hunting rifle that can also double as a defensive rifle is practical. Like a M14, G3, FAL, AR10, Scar Heavy or something the like. While sub-moa is nice to have, you can still take just about any game out there at practical ranges with a 2 moa gun.

A .22lr is one of the most useful prepper guns out there in my opinion also, because most of the game that you'll find will be small. The larger stuff is less seldom now and it won't be better when everyone from the corner to city 50 miles away will be gunning for whatever they can eat. You don't need a $1000 .22lr either when a standard 10/22 for a $200 and change can do just about anything a person could actually hit with it.
 

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Hey everybody,

I've only posted here twice and the community is great, so I thought I'd throw this one out as well:

In another thread I posted my "arsenal:" a Glock 23, Ruger GP-100, AR-15 and a Mossberg 500.

People have directed me to a number of great .22s, which I am going to research ASAP, but this long-range rifle is a bit more specialized. I'll try to give some specifics:

Cost: $1250 is the ceiling.

Location: I live in a "rural suburb" area in Missouri, with some neighbors around and highway access nearby-ish, but my neighbors are all very far apart from me and there is a pretty thick woods area behind my house. I own the acre or so behind it and am outside city limits, so when permitted I can occasionally take a deer from the stand I have at the far rear of my property some 300 yards into the woods. I'm around a lot of people's "land" so I hunt with my neighbors on occasion and we have a good amount of game, mostly deer and rabbit but you find the occasional turkey or goose out there too.

Me: I currenty live alone and am an experienced shooter, so I can handle a hot rifle. (My Mossberg has a 3" barrel cut down to 19"; my shoulder hates me.) I have the resources to keep my guns in good shape and secure. This could be a rifle for hunting or whatever other task may arise in a SHTF situation.

So, what do y'all think? How do I get the best rifle for a prepper's use given those conditions?
I'm gonna' try this again. I had a great response, moved my hand and my Go* Da** laptop reared its ugly head, and wiped it all out, put me back on some other page. :evil: :x::saber:: SOB!

I posted a link to YouTube on your other thread. If you really want to spend that kind of money, and have some left over, take a look. It's the HOWA Hogue Target Master Combo and has an optional Detachable Box Magazine that holds 10 (cool factor :smile:). The Remington 700 Tactical is cool too, but you'll start at 6 or 700 for just the rifle. Then you need a scope. And I don't know if there is an optional DBM system available for it.

If you want to save some money, in all seriousness, give the Mosin 91/30 a look. Go to the gun shop and look it over. Buy a set of headspace gauges (fairly inexpensive on E-Bay/Amazon). If the head space is good, check the action. If it's smooth, move on to the rifling. If you have to hammer the bolt open or closed, move on completely. If not, check the rifling. Most bores will be darkened a bit, but that's okay. You're worried about the rifling. Is there any? Is it pitted. A small amount of pitting is "okay". If it's dark, rifling is obviously worn and there is a lot of pitting, move on.

I was fortunate that my rifle's action was smooth as butter and the rifling was excellent. I have a Hex receiver Finnish Mosin, which is cool as these were barreled for .308 diameter bullets. Which eliminates a couple of steps in reloading. Most Mosins take anywhere from .309 to .311, even .312 bullets. To reload those, you have to have the Mosin dies (Lee) which only size the neck to .308, then you have to have .303 British dies to size past that.

Or you can try your luck online. If you do, I fully recommend getting your C&R FFL. The fees you save on your first transaction will pay for it. It's $30, good for three years and the paperwork is no harder to fill out than the standard form you fill out at the gun shop. If you can read, you can do it. And it gets shipped directly to your door. My C&R took 17 days from the time I mailed the app until I received the license.

I have purchased online and aside from a bolt that was a little stiffer than I wanted, the gun was good to go. Most of these guys will sort through and pull out the obvious crap, if there is any. My experience is there is more garbage in the store than online.

Once you have a rifle, there are tons of videos on "sporterizing" the Mosin. Everything from cutting the barrel, to recrowning, bedding the stock, pillar bedding the action, installing the Timney Trigger and on and on and on. On YouTube, Iraqvet8888 has like an 11 or 12 video series on his Mosin project. His is a little more in-depth as he has actual smithing tools available, but you'll get the gist. Old Larry Potterfield does a nice one on re-crowning on the Midway USA YT channel. Lots of videos out there.

I did mine with basic hand tools. A hacksaw, a file, a drill bit to get the crown started, a brass screw (used the head to smooth out the crown) and some emery cloth and steel wool. If you have a fine stone that fits in a drill, you can use that to polish the crown as well. Most rear sights are pinned and easy to remove. Mine was soldered and was a pain in the a**. The whole thing only took a few hours, mostly removing the rear sight and ensuring that my crown was 90 degrees to the barrel. There is no drilling or tapping needed for the Scout Scope (Long Eye Relief) as it attaches directly to the dovetail where the rear sight used to set.

When I took it to the range for the first time, I was mocked, harassed and nearly threatened by the range officers. I was told everything that they thought was wrong. With the rifle and me. When I left, they wanted one. I told them to supply the rifle and for a nominal fee, I would build them one. It shot fabulously.

And despite the shortened barrel, it shot 147 grain, 180 grain and 203 grain bullets with no issues. Obviously, the "better" non-surplus ammo had tighter groups, but even the surplus was more than acceptable. I was pounding the gong at 200 yards with all three.

Ballistics; the 7.62x54r is a notch above the .308 performance wise, and a notch below the 30-06. Ammo is plentiful and cheap in surplus bulk. There are plenty of manufacturers who produce it, and there is a wide variety of weights/purposes available. Even Winchester makes it under "Metric Calibers". Silver Bear, Brown Bear, Hornady, PPU and many others produce fine quality ammo. Buy some stripper clips and you're in business.

There are Mosin specific accessories out there. Folks finally went "hey, there's something to these Mosins after all."

Just remember, in a situation for your purposes, prepping, SHTF, whatever it may be; You are not likely to have to thread the needle from 200 yards to take out the bad guy and save the hostage. That type of accuracy is not needed. And you will pay major cash for that accuracy, providing that YOU can actually shoot the rifle. A rifle can only shoot as well as you can. The longest shot I have ever taken is about 210 yards, because that is what my range is limited to. I know that for all practical purposes, on a man sized target, with a tad more elevation, I can comfortably take a 300 yard shot, probably 400. I'm no sniper. And I'm guessing you're not either.

What's needed is something that is tough and you're not afraid to drop or get dirty, battlefield proven and possesses the ballistic ability to take down big game if needed, and wreak havoc on the two legged adversaries you may encounter. Basically, you need a rifle that can hit a man sized target at at least 500 yards and put a hurt on him. This is very much possible with this rifle, and more, for a whole lot less money than $1250.

With the ammo I have (1000 rounds), the scope, the flashlight and the rifle itself, I have less than $475 invested. I could spend another $200 on the Timney Trigger and a different stock (which I plan to) and have a fine, fine shooting rifle that has lots of surplus parts available.

What could you do with that extra $600?
 

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Savage offers all their popular bolt action rifles in left hand. I am left handed, but growing up in a right handed world i adapted. My only left handed rifle is a Savage 93GL, that's a magazine fed, bolt action, wooden stocked 22 Winchester Magnum Rimfire (aka "22 magnum").
For a center fire rifle I prefer the 30/06 simply because it can be found more or less anywhere in the WORLD. .308 Winchester is almost the same ballistically, but not as commonly available as the good old 30/06. If the local Bait-N-Tackle in Podunk Falls sells any ammo it will have at least 22LR, 12 guage and 30/06. Maybe some 30-30 too.
I would suggest you avoid the low buck offerings from Remington and Savage, those with the cheapest synthetic stocks. I believe the Remington is called the 770. The higher priced synthetic models have aluminum billet stiffeners. Personally, my rifles wear wood furniture. Well, all except for a 22 Hornet single shot.
 

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On MGO a Michigan web site you can pick up a great used (.270, 30-06 or .308) in a savage brand for 550 to 700 and a (Remington 700) from 600 to 800 all day long, comes with a lot of anonymity for free. From the last guy who spent the long dollar to be a super sniper. Use the money left over to buy a $150 marlin model 60 used in great shape, take the other 400 go to the store and stock pile ammo for your weapon.

Also, you do not need a "Tacticool" rifle to shoot deer at 300 yards with a .270 30-06 or .308, you need a steady trigger pull and a sighted in rifle. I have a 20 year old .270 Remington 700 adl, with a 21" sportster barrel, that will drop a doe at 300 yards every time.

Tacticool cost more, it is not warranted, necessary, practical, cost effective, realistic.
 

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I know I am new around here, but I have been shooting/gunsmithing long range rifles for over 20 years - tactical, service rifle, palma, f-class.

Savage and Remington both make left hand actions. I would look for a 308 unless you already have a rifle in 3006. 308 is much more plentiful and is still being made for military use (M118LR for precision work and M80 for general use).

You want a varmint taper barrel for better accuracy. Thin barrels will shift point of impact as they heat up. It is very easy to swap a barrel out on a savage without a gunsmith so if you can find a left hand varmint rifle in a short action 308 bolt face cartridge (243, 260, 22-250, etc) you can buy a 308 barrel and just swap it out.

Don't go cheap on the scope. You definitely get what you pay for.

Hope this help you...
 

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I know I am new around here, but I have been shooting/gunsmithing long range rifles for over 20 years - tactical, service rifle, palma, f-class.

Savage and Remington both make left hand actions. I would look for a 308 unless you already have a rifle in 3006. 308 is much more plentiful and is still being made for military use (M118LR for precision work and M80 for general use).

You want a varmint taper barrel for better accuracy. Thin barrels will shift point of impact as they heat up. It is very easy to swap a barrel out on a savage without a gunsmith so if you can find a left hand varmint rifle in a short action 308 bolt face cartridge (243, 260, 22-250, etc) you can buy a 308 barrel and just swap it out.

Don't go cheap on the scope. You definitely get what you pay for.

Hope this help you...
All knowledge is appreciated, glad to have you both on board..
 

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For a bolt rifle for a newbie I would recommend the Remington 700 aac-sd Here is a link from Remmy Centerfire Rifle - Model 700 SPS Tactical AAC-SD - Remington Centerfire Rifles

It has a threaded barrel for a suppressor or muzzle break. It has a 20in barrel with a 1 in 10 twist so it will get the same range a a 24/26 in barrel.. I have seen them new in box for right at $600.. I have one I am building now and am very happy with it.

Like others said. Get good glass.. A nice one that wont break the bank is a Millet 6x25x56 LRS can be found for under $400 if you look around and it is a great scope. I prefer the mil/mil adjustments over the moa but they have both and you can pick whatever..

I am left handed but always used the right handed actions mostly.. I do have a Remington 40x bench rifle in Left Hand model that I use pretty often but never had a problem with a right hnd model..

Best thing I can say is pick what ya want. You will hear different opinions from everyone on here so it just comes down to what ya want..
 

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Discussion Starter #19
With the ammo I have (1000 rounds), the scope, the flashlight and the rifle itself, I have less than $475 invested. I could spend another $200 on the Timney Trigger and a different stock (which I plan to) and have a fine, fine shooting rifle that has lots of surplus parts available.

What could you do with that extra $600?
Oh, I dunno, maybe buy food? ;-)

Or maybe invest in a nice hardass AK that can take a beating. I've found a few I love and shot many of them. Maybe it's because I'm part Syrian and it's my genetics...

Thanks to everybody for the help! I'm reading EVERY suggestion, trust me!
 

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the good part about the savage is that they shoot almost as good as a Remington but you can find them used for
about $300-$350, now this gives you more money to play with in setting up the scope, rings, trigger job, bedding & sling
and maybe have some money left over.

I have two savages, a model 10 in 5.56 , and a fp110 in 7mm Rem Mag with a 6x24 mil-dot ( 168 Sierra Matchking) sub one min MOA when I do my part. I think that Rem is best over all. but if you are on a budget the Savage is the way to go.
 
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