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I think it would probly be the Hi Point
Budget pistols the what is the mosin of the handgun world?
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It used to be the Star BM 9mm compact, but as more people learned how great they are, like the sks, they've climbed up to $300 in price, but they are still a bargain. Go to GunBroker.com or GunsAmerica.com to look at them. The Phoenix Arms $100 retail HP22 is a fine choice, also, cause only rarely do you have to actually "shoot the man into the ground" with powerful hits to the chest. Most often, just the sight of your (ready) gun suffices, or if not, oftentimes, shots that miss will suffice, or poor hits, or "mere" .22 hits (good ones, swiftlly delivered) suffice.
Btw, the Mosin is a bad joke. It was a clunker when it was new. There is no reason to settle for a bolt action for anything, these days. The 223 AR 15's have plenty of accuracy for varmints, or 600 yd sniping, as a matter of fact, that's plenty of range, since very few people can reliablly hit the cover-using head of a prone sniper at 100 yds, much less 600 yds!
The used, $400 Remington autoloading sporting rifle in 308, can use cheap milsurp practice ammo, hunt with premium softpoints of course, and is plenty accurate enough for large game, 2MOA groups or better. It offers the rapidfire you might need if you get charged, have to deal with a rabid animal or dog pack, or men, too. If you can't afford the $200 difference between a Mosin and an SKs, how in God's name can you afford to fire the several thousand rds per year need to stay a top hand at snapshooting, much less get that good in the first place? If you are that broke, a .22lr is all you can afford to be skilled with. Better to be a top hand with a "mere" .22autoloader than to be a slow, inaccurate shottist with a Mosin, for sure!
Btw, the Mosin is a bad joke. It was a clunker when it was new. There is no reason to settle for a bolt action for anything, these days. The 223 AR 15's have plenty of accuracy for varmints, or 600 yd sniping, as a matter of fact, that's plenty of range, since very few people can reliablly hit the cover-using head of a prone sniper at 100 yds, much less 600 yds!
The used, $400 Remington autoloading sporting rifle in 308, can use cheap milsurp practice ammo, hunt with premium softpoints of course, and is plenty accurate enough for large game, 2MOA groups or better. It offers the rapidfire you might need if you get charged, have to deal with a rabid animal or dog pack, or men, too. If you can't afford the $200 difference between a Mosin and an SKs, how in God's name can you afford to fire the several thousand rds per year need to stay a top hand at snapshooting, much less get that good in the first place? If you are that broke, a .22lr is all you can afford to be skilled with. Better to be a top hand with a "mere" .22autoloader than to be a slow, inaccurate shottist with a Mosin, for sure!I have so many point od disagreement with the aobe that it's hard to pick a point to start with.It used to be the Star BM 9mm compact, but as more people learned how great they are, like the sks, they've climbed up to $300 in price, but they are still a bargain. Go to GunBroker.com or GunsAmerica.com to look at them. The Phoenix Arms $100 retail HP22 is a fine choice, also, cause only rarely do you have to actually "shoot the man into the ground" with powerful hits to the chest. Most often, just the sight of your (ready) gun suffices, or if not, oftentimes, shots that miss will suffice, or poor hits, or "mere" .22 hits (good ones, swiftlly delivered) suffice.
Btw, the Mosin is a bad joke. It was a clunker when it was new. There is no reason to settle for a bolt action for anything, these days. The 223 AR 15's have plenty of accuracy for varmints, or 600 yd sniping, as a matter of fact, that's plenty of range, since very few people can reliablly hit the cover-using head of a prone sniper at 100 yds, much less 600 yds!
So we'll start here .223/5.56 as a " varmint" cartridge. That's correct because that's *exactly* what it is. And in the .224s it's nowhere near the fastest , the flattest shooting or the most accurate.
And 600 yards? Sure you can hit something with decent glass on a M4gery , but check to *actual* power at 600 as compared to the cartridge you're attempting to slag off i.e. 7.62 x 54r , which ballisticlly falls *directly* between .308win/7.62 x 51 and .30-06.
In addition in ***actual survival*** situations the Mosin you so degrade will be a better choice. It's an infinitely better game getter , and I wouldn't attempt to argue that one with me.
And on to the Remingtom autoloaders....quite simply they're J U N K , they *will not* stand up to stout handloads and they are quite prone to breakage , want a civilian autoloader look to the BAR.
" How can you afford" , how can anyone afford to shoot ANY centerfire?......Why by loading your own of course , and indeed in certain Wildcats it's the *only* way you'll be shooting them at all.
A great many folks need to ask themselves a very basic question , are they preparing to *survive* or are they prepping for the " mutant zombie bikers".
Firearms are a " horses for courses" thing , an M4gery is useless for DLP bear work , while one of my tackdriving varminters or bench rifles is useless for shortrange defensive work.
the further away you are from the man, the less power you need to hit him with. he can't hit you from 600 yds BEFORE he took the 223 hit, and afterwards, he will be unable to concentrate on anything much. The fact that you disagree so much just means that you don't know much. I would not attempt a 600 yd shot with a short barreled AR. But with the full sized 20" barrel, it's quite feasible to do so. If you "think" that taking the 1.5 seconds per repeat shots necessary with a Mosin is a good idea in a combat weapon, as vs the .25 second needed by the 223 autorifle, there is simply no point in talking to you any further. You live in a dream world. The LOSERS of ww2 tried to use bolt actions against our autorifles, remember?
Only BRAIN hits reliably stop large animals instantly, that is what is needed for stopping charges, regardless of caliber. If you "think" that a 223 softpoint to the brain won't pop his eyeballs out of his skull, you don't know anything about the subject. If your AR's are set up to be too slow to use in combat, shame on you. They are certainly still a LOT faster for repeat hits than any bolt action could ever hope to be.
Small game, dogs, cats, livestock are far more commonly encountered than even deer, and 22lr's to the head drop deer in their tracks, to 50 yds. Bowhunters get much closer than that to deer, thousands of times per year, even in legal season, without the foraging aids of jacklighting, bait, etc. Sport hunting for trophy males has NOTHING to do with foraging for food. But almost no hunters can understand that difference.
The fact that you disagree so much just means that you don't know much. I would not attempt a 600 yd shot with a short barreled AR. But with the full sized 20" barrel, it's quite feasible to do so. If you "think" that taking the 1.5 seconds per repeat shots necessary with a Mosin is a good idea in a combat weapon, as vs the .25 second needed by the 223 autorifle, there is simply no point in talking to you any further. You live in a dream world. The LOSERS of ww2 tried to use bolt actions against our autorifles, remember?Only BRAIN hits reliably stop large animals instantly, that is what is needed for stopping charges, regardless of caliber. If you "think" that a 223 softpoint to the brain won't pop his eyeballs out of his skull, you don't know anything about the subject. If your AR's are set up to be too slow to use in combat, shame on you. They are certainly still a LOT faster for repeat hits than any bolt action could ever hope to be.
Small game, dogs, cats, livestock are far more commonly encountered than even deer, and 22lr's to the head drop deer in their tracks, to 50 yds. Bowhunters get much closer than that to deer, thousands of times per year, even in legal season, without the foraging aids of jacklighting, bait, etc. Sport hunting for trophy males has NOTHING to do with foraging for food. But almost no hunters can understand that difference.
reloading ANY centerfire rifle cartridge leaves you at 15c per shot. So the difference between a mosin and an sks is just a mere 2000 rds of shooting, which is NOTHING if you are trying to learn to be swift and accurate. Taking 5 times as long for repeat shots, with the Mosin, as vs an sks, is just stupid.
Blah . b;ah . blah......same crap we've heard from you a thousand times before on a hundred different forums that you were/have been tossed off of.the further away you are from the man, the less power you need to hit him with. he can't hit you from 600 yds BEFORE he took the 223 hit, and afterwards, he will be unable to concentrate on anything much.
Only BRAIN hits reliably stop large animals instantly, that is what is needed for stopping charges, regardless of caliber. If you "think" that a 223 softpoint to the brain won't pop his eyeballs out of his skull, you don't know anything about the subject. If your AR's are set up to be too slow to use in combat, shame on you. They are certainly still a LOT faster for repeat hits than any bolt action could ever hope to be.
Small game, dogs, cats, livestock are far more commonly encountered than even deer, and 22lr's to the head drop deer in their tracks, to 50 yds. Bowhunters get much closer than that to deer, thousands of times per year, even in legal season, without the foraging aids of jacklighting, bait, etc. Sport hunting for trophy males has NOTHING to do with foraging for food. But almost no hunters can understand that difference.
And you're forgetting who you're talking to here. You're fulla SHIT with that " can't be hit at 600 yards". And NO you t'ain't stopping a Big bear with a .223...agin remember who you're doing your chihuahua behind a fence act with , *I* have the experience , all YOU have is talk and that's it.
Quite simply you're present here for the same reason you WERE present in certain other forums........to pound on your chest and proclaim yourself the best thing since sliced bread , you've switched up a bit with your yapping about 7.62 x 39 but the .223/22lr conversion and your fixation with it gives ya away.
Save it , because tell ya what there CLOWN , and I've got the *direct* experience to back it up , a 7.62 x 54r is a *much* better choice as regards large game than 7.62 x 39 , which of course is ballistically in the same neighborhood as .30-30 , but it won't carry as heavy a slug as efficiently............now try and dispute that one and I'll deluge ya with enough loading data to choke a horse.........from MY logs , not from some magazine article.
Now try and tell me that you're seeing 3600 fps out of a ten inch M4gery ......try it again , I dare ya.
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60 Posts
Well preppers,
in this senario, I think having more is the key. I myself have a Hi Point and it has never jam or gave me any problems. Just make sure it is ball ammo and nothing else (ie hollow points or flat point and what not).
There are videos posted by iraqveteran8888 on youtube where they tried their best to destroy the Hi Point handgun and well they pratically have to finally rig it with explosive to destroy it. to make it unfireable. Go check it out.
Anyway, my deal is always keep moving and so I suggest stashing ammo and an extra handgun or two in buckets that are buried along your escape route or even around your location so youc an retireve it if needed when your location is overrun or taken.
So I am a big fan of buying cheap handguns. Because you know what I rather have two cheap handguns than one awesome and expensive handgun and when that is taken away. that is it. Where else if i have two cheapo I can still keep trying to survive. So dont all bend up about brands and type. But make sure you have lots .
Also this thread has become kinda ugly. Can't we just all live along and hopefully help each other to survive?
in this senario, I think having more is the key. I myself have a Hi Point and it has never jam or gave me any problems. Just make sure it is ball ammo and nothing else (ie hollow points or flat point and what not).
There are videos posted by iraqveteran8888 on youtube where they tried their best to destroy the Hi Point handgun and well they pratically have to finally rig it with explosive to destroy it. to make it unfireable. Go check it out.
Anyway, my deal is always keep moving and so I suggest stashing ammo and an extra handgun or two in buckets that are buried along your escape route or even around your location so youc an retireve it if needed when your location is overrun or taken.
So I am a big fan of buying cheap handguns. Because you know what I rather have two cheap handguns than one awesome and expensive handgun and when that is taken away. that is it. Where else if i have two cheapo I can still keep trying to survive. So dont all bend up about brands and type. But make sure you have lots .
Also this thread has become kinda ugly. Can't we just all live along and hopefully help each other to survive?
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46 Posts
Hello all
Ron L here New to this Forum but not forums in general and I have to say the level of childlike behavior here is a disapointment? PMs are made for non Civil discussions and if you can't be civil, WHY POST? Flame wars really do little to make yourself look tough, more experienced or give you the high ground? In like mind I will keep my thought on Hi point to myself as I have seen how bad they can be as a dfealer and some we sent back, but as in life if it works for ya all power to ya? I'd rather have 1 Good Quality Handgun I know and can fix than 3 crappy ones that will fail in time, Not that Hi Point fits that description! Go with what ya know, have ansd can trust and hopefully can work on, get parts and ammo for?/ The rest is well "CHIN MUSIC"?
Ron L here New to this Forum but not forums in general and I have to say the level of childlike behavior here is a disapointment? PMs are made for non Civil discussions and if you can't be civil, WHY POST? Flame wars really do little to make yourself look tough, more experienced or give you the high ground? In like mind I will keep my thought on Hi point to myself as I have seen how bad they can be as a dfealer and some we sent back, but as in life if it works for ya all power to ya? I'd rather have 1 Good Quality Handgun I know and can fix than 3 crappy ones that will fail in time, Not that Hi Point fits that description! Go with what ya know, have ansd can trust and hopefully can work on, get parts and ammo for?/ The rest is well "CHIN MUSIC"?
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95 Posts
To address the original question:
Yeah, I suppose one could call the Hi-Point the Mosin Nagant of the handgun world. It's inexpensive, from what I've heard it's fairly reliable, and likely as accurate as it needs to be.
Some years ago, before prices escalated...my answer probably would've been the Makarov, or the P-64, or the CZ82. All of these are chambered in 9x18 Makarov, are quite robust, reasonably accurate (in some cases, very accurate), and reliable. It's still possible to find these for reasonable prices.
Another choice would be...the M.1895 Nagant. It's inexpensive, reliable, sturdy, though it's also underpowered, the ammo is tricky to locate and not cheap.Since it was a Russian gun, seems a logical companion to the Mosin Nagant. (As a bonus, it's a 7-shot revolver, and in a SHTF emergency, could be suppressed.)
If I was starting from scratch to assemble a "survival" arsenal on a limited budget, I'd probably look for a reasonably priced SKS, and either a Makarov/CZ82 or a mechanically sound surplus LE (or other used) .38/.357 revolver. If I had to watch every single penny, I'd get a cheapie bolt or semi .22 LR rifle and a .22 pistol...if I absolutely needed the power of a center fire, I'd go for the Mosin Nagant, and still get a .22 pistol of some kind.
Tim
Yeah, I suppose one could call the Hi-Point the Mosin Nagant of the handgun world. It's inexpensive, from what I've heard it's fairly reliable, and likely as accurate as it needs to be.
Some years ago, before prices escalated...my answer probably would've been the Makarov, or the P-64, or the CZ82. All of these are chambered in 9x18 Makarov, are quite robust, reasonably accurate (in some cases, very accurate), and reliable. It's still possible to find these for reasonable prices.
Another choice would be...the M.1895 Nagant. It's inexpensive, reliable, sturdy, though it's also underpowered, the ammo is tricky to locate and not cheap.Since it was a Russian gun, seems a logical companion to the Mosin Nagant. (As a bonus, it's a 7-shot revolver, and in a SHTF emergency, could be suppressed.)
If I was starting from scratch to assemble a "survival" arsenal on a limited budget, I'd probably look for a reasonably priced SKS, and either a Makarov/CZ82 or a mechanically sound surplus LE (or other used) .38/.357 revolver. If I had to watch every single penny, I'd get a cheapie bolt or semi .22 LR rifle and a .22 pistol...if I absolutely needed the power of a center fire, I'd go for the Mosin Nagant, and still get a .22 pistol of some kind.
Tim
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I recently bought a HighPoint C9 at a gun show. I was looking for a .22lr pistol but couldn't find one for less then $300 (way to much in my mind for a .22). I couldn't part with my money for .22lr but came across a HP. thought that is my .22. I have 9mm already as my carry gun and intend on buying another 9mm Handgun so this would be my target practice gun. I would still like to get a .22lr pistol but will have to keep looking for the right $.
I know that ol addage, "whats your life worth". but I have a "high end" 9mm gun as a primary personal defense gun, so this is a secondary gun for taking on ATV trips/fishing and the like where damage/loss may occur. and I don't mean loss by misplacing but by loosing in a river during a crossing/ getting thrown from the ATV down a rocky hill side @ 14000ft.... Thats how I ride.
A diehard gun buddy of mine recently got back from a vacation with the family and they went to the sand dunes. He said he spent the entire evening cleaning his carry gun afterwards. It had soo much sand in it, it wouldn't break down. So for trips like that, the High Point will be in service thank you.
I have other guns on my list to get but I must pace myself or I'll be wifeless,,,, I am not sure if that is a good thing or bad thing yet....
I know that ol addage, "whats your life worth". but I have a "high end" 9mm gun as a primary personal defense gun, so this is a secondary gun for taking on ATV trips/fishing and the like where damage/loss may occur. and I don't mean loss by misplacing but by loosing in a river during a crossing/ getting thrown from the ATV down a rocky hill side @ 14000ft.... Thats how I ride.
A diehard gun buddy of mine recently got back from a vacation with the family and they went to the sand dunes. He said he spent the entire evening cleaning his carry gun afterwards. It had soo much sand in it, it wouldn't break down. So for trips like that, the High Point will be in service thank you.
I have other guns on my list to get but I must pace myself or I'll be wifeless,,,, I am not sure if that is a good thing or bad thing yet....
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Just did a very quick search on GunsAmerica and for less than $250 (still need shipping and transfer fee) there are over 50 CZ-83's in 9x18 Mak and almost 200 38 Special Revolvers Mostly Taurus and Rossi. Both of these guns are a lot more durable and easier to carry than a High Point. Remember that while a Mosin Rifle is cheap it is also hell for stout. Something I doubt a High Point is.
If you can live with a 32 Automatic there's a bunch of CZ-70's for sale (similar in size to a walther PPK ) with an al steel frame.
Have I ever carried the equivalent of a High Point. While over seas, there was a time I could only get an RG (one auto in 25 and two revolvers in 22) and yes I was glad to have them, but when I could find something better they went in the safe and stayed there:evil:
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Again you only make my point that there are other pistols out there not much more expensive than a high point and a lot more durable. When I ran my search on GunsAmerica no RugerP models showed up. Sorry. And just remember that even though it's a slightly odd ball caliber for the US, Russia, Ukariane, China Viet Nam, Poland Hungary, the Czech Republic, Belorussia and a lot of other countries have this as one of their standard calibers. Also ammo at places like cheaper than dirt is about $2.00/50 cheaper than 9mm luger
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There is no hand gun comparison to the Mosin except one and it's not in terms of price. I don't know what the estimates are for the number of Mosin rifles, SkS rifles or ARm4 variations but the only hand gun in comparison quantity wise is a 1911a1 45. Clearly that is not in the same budget range, but you can get a new 45 1911 for probably $500 to $600 even in today's market.
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I would have to say that the Mosin of handguns would have to be the Tokarev in either the 7.62X25 or 9mm. I have owned a few over the years and they are built strong and simple like the Mosin rifles and they are relatively cheap compared to most firearms. The 7.62x25 is a zippy little round and the surplus stuff is affordable. I haven’t been able to keep one long because my friends usually talk me out of it after shooting it. The grip angle leaves a lot to be desired and so do the sights. I found parts available as well as the magazines. The Russians now how to build a firearm to last, so if you happen to find a Tokarev at a descent price, give it a try.
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9x18 makarov, at least used to be, have not checked prices for a long time. I'll second the star pistols too, great bang for the buck.
I'm giving another vote to the Ruger P series. I have an old P89 that is an amazing weapon...I believe I paid well less than $300 for it even after taxes. It was my first handgun and I have managed to aquire many more over the years. That Ruger was an awesome value and I would never feel at a disadvantage with it.
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