Ok have not shot a reasonable handgun for around 25 years now, and started down the club last week to get back into it, Been tying the Arcus 98DA 9mil hoping to get one when I have done a course and get the license. Tough little gun, I think good for a prepper! Anyway, the thing that soon hit home, is the fact my eyes are not what they used to be, as I use glasses now, for close work upto around 1 meter. The indoor shooting range is not the most brightly illuminated place in the world either, target distance is around 20 to 24 meters away with target rings of about 1.5 ft across. Well my fist 5 rounds seemed to be 2 round about 10 inches from bull sigh and 3 in the 7 to smack middle of target . Second 5 similar and so far I have fired around 30 shells down range in total over two different days and managed to get 3 bulls out of that ( not too good) But I am finding it difficult to focus on both target and gun. I either see the sights and blurred dark target, or reasonable target and a dark thing in my hands we call a pistol, sights what sights! Hahahh. This is turning out to be an ass, but fun too! As I can’t get my own gun until I have done the course, I can’t get one with the glow green type sighting dots on the gun, which I think would help a lot. SO have to put up with this dark lump of metal roughly pointed in the right direction, grrrrr! Any ideas folks? But I do know it’s early days yet, I will keep going and keep up the practice one or two times a week and hope things improve! :???:
Back to shooting basics! Ideas please.....
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Not too long ago, . . . I read an "instruction" that makes all the sense in the world, . . . and really puts the "focus" where it needs to be.
It said: "point the weapon onto the target, . . . line up the sights, . . . focus your eyes on that front sight, . . . and while keeping the sights in alignment, . . . use your trigger finger to pretend it is attached to the front sight, . . . and you are trying to pull that front sight back between the two sides of the rear sight, . . . while keeping the top edge of them flat"
If you can put that concept in your head, . . . it does two things: one, it keeps the viusal, . . . the eye focus, . . . on the front sight, . . . where it should start, stay, and finish.
It also makes "pulling" the trigger a different action than we normally think of, . . . which usually enhances performances.
It has always been my observation that all new shooters want to see every shot, . . . "Where did it go? Is it a Bulls-Eye? Did I score 100?" The further along we get in our training, . . . the more relaxed we get, . . . we just concentrate on the basics, . . . and add em all up at the end of the string.
Also, . . . take your time, . . . again, . . . take your time. Shoot, . . . make it safe, . . . lay it down. Take three deep breaths, . . . don't look at the target. Pick it up again, . . . same process, . . . shoot, make it safe, lay it down. Consider the "process" more than the outcome. You will begin to round off the rough edges of the process, . . . and that will in turn, . . . give you better scores.
Honestly, . . . I've seen people who want to sit down with a high powered rifle, . . . shoot 1 round, . . . adjust the scope, . . . shoot another, . . . adjuct, . . . shoot another, . . . adjust. They wear out the scope with all the adjustments, . . . waste a whole bunch of ammo, . . . get real good and frustrated, . . . and never have a good time. Don't let your pistol shooting get into that same rut.
May God bless,
Dwight
It said: "point the weapon onto the target, . . . line up the sights, . . . focus your eyes on that front sight, . . . and while keeping the sights in alignment, . . . use your trigger finger to pretend it is attached to the front sight, . . . and you are trying to pull that front sight back between the two sides of the rear sight, . . . while keeping the top edge of them flat"
If you can put that concept in your head, . . . it does two things: one, it keeps the viusal, . . . the eye focus, . . . on the front sight, . . . where it should start, stay, and finish.
It also makes "pulling" the trigger a different action than we normally think of, . . . which usually enhances performances.
It has always been my observation that all new shooters want to see every shot, . . . "Where did it go? Is it a Bulls-Eye? Did I score 100?" The further along we get in our training, . . . the more relaxed we get, . . . we just concentrate on the basics, . . . and add em all up at the end of the string.
Also, . . . take your time, . . . again, . . . take your time. Shoot, . . . make it safe, . . . lay it down. Take three deep breaths, . . . don't look at the target. Pick it up again, . . . same process, . . . shoot, make it safe, lay it down. Consider the "process" more than the outcome. You will begin to round off the rough edges of the process, . . . and that will in turn, . . . give you better scores.
Honestly, . . . I've seen people who want to sit down with a high powered rifle, . . . shoot 1 round, . . . adjust the scope, . . . shoot another, . . . adjuct, . . . shoot another, . . . adjust. They wear out the scope with all the adjustments, . . . waste a whole bunch of ammo, . . . get real good and frustrated, . . . and never have a good time. Don't let your pistol shooting get into that same rut.
May God bless,
Dwight
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Hi Iceman, I grew up in the country and hunting for most of my youth. That was mostly with shotguns though squirrels and rabbits. Just a year ago, I got into shooting pistols. I don't have the best eyesight either, never have (I'm 57 years old). One of the first things I did was go to YOUTUBE and look up pistol shooting basics. There is a lot of good info on there from how to hold the pistol, stance....ect. One of the biggest problems some people have is to admit they don't know everything, and close their minds to anyone trying to show someone something. I never had that problem, and after reading your post, I don't think you do either, which is great. Check out YOUTube on Stance and grip, I think that will help your shooting faster than anything else.
Hope this helps, and best of luck
-dave-
Hope this helps, and best of luck
-dave-
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2,417 Posts
The other post are great and give some really good advise. I would say to get with an instructor or knowledgeable range officer to get the basics down. After, perfect practice makes perfect. Another option that seems to work for older shooters with deteriorating eye sight is to use a laser. The technology has come a long way and it helps with point shooting. I'm over 40 now and had to get my first set of glasses so I know the frustration.
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The argus is a less expensive gun so I would surprised if on its best day you would get a 3" pattern, maybe have the range pro shoot it to see its potential. Also the trigger is going to have a lot of wasted pull and over travel and you will need to shoot a lot more than 15 rounds a day to learn the break of that particular weapon. I expect it doesn't break very clean and Dwight's suggestions above are good.
Also why not try moving the target closer for a while and see how your pattern improves, once you get 10's move it progressively farther out.
Push with your gun hand, pull with out off hand, use the pad of your finger (not near the joint), and yes always,focus on the front sight.
Also why not try moving the target closer for a while and see how your pattern improves, once you get 10's move it progressively farther out.
Push with your gun hand, pull with out off hand, use the pad of your finger (not near the joint), and yes always,focus on the front sight.
I think some good advice there, I am suppirsed you say the Arcus is not so good, maybe, but what I have read about it, they do not seem to focus on the fact it may not be spot on, but the so called experts do seem to say if you want a reliable go anywhere, Russian hard nosed rough, machine which will fire when needed it's hard hand gun to beat, a kind of Kalashnikov of hand guns. But, can't afford some nice 1500$ gun, If I want distance I will pick up my .457 cal, 10-40x50 scoped rifle, which I seem to be a quite a bit better at hitting things with. hahahah
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Keep in mind most shooting incidents happen with about 7 feet. Get good close in first, and then work on stretching it out a bit.
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Rigged for Quiet makes a very good point! First if it aint up and close chances are you didnt have a deadly threat and may be looking at some liability issues not to mention criminal issues if you shoot beyond about 7 meters. Most shooting incidences will be much shorter than that...1 or 2 meters. When shooting at those distances you dont have to be using the same optomitrist that Super Man uses. Your breathing, grip on the weapon and trigger control will likely be bigger factors than your eye sight or lack there of especially as the distances increase!
As the above two posters mentioned, most self-defense shootings are at a maximum of 7 yards, which is only 21 feet. I'm 71, and my eyes certainly aren't what they use to be, but at 21 feet I can still put two quick shots center of mass and one to the head. Practice with the target at 7 yards and concentrate on sight alignment, stance, grip, and trigger control. Get some instruction on the basics from a competent instructor at the range, then practice, practice, practice. But be sure you get the basics down correctly with the help of someone at the range who knows what he/she is talking about. It doesn't do much good to practice BAD technique! And while there is a lot of good information out on UTube, there is also a lot of BAD info by supposed "experts" who don't know what they are talking about! Good luck to you. And by the way, concentrate on the FRONT sight. Just my .02.
Your fundamentals most vital to handgun shooting are sight alignment and trigger control. For sight alignment you make sure you can see that front sight crystal clear. Top of the front sight even with the top of the rear with equal space on either side of that front sight. Put that whole mess in the center of that dark blur of a target and put slow constant pressure on the trigger and you will hit your target. Actually there is nothing wrong with your eyes, they just can't focus on 2 objects at different distances at the same time. This is true for everyone and it's something you'll need to overcome. Target should be a bit of a blur, front sight crystal clear. At closer ranges, sight alignment becomes less critical and a lot of people don't use their sights at all at typical gun fight range (point and shoot).
-Infidel
-Infidel
I'm not sure of what a reasonable handgun is, does that mean there are unreasonable ones...J/K
Since the eyes can only focus on one thing at a time focus on the front sight. You mentioned that you wear glasses. Single vision or bi/tri focal? I wear glasses myself (far sighted) and switched over to progressive lenses so I could see close up with out searching through the trifocal for the right lens, it helped. YMMV
Since the eyes can only focus on one thing at a time focus on the front sight. You mentioned that you wear glasses. Single vision or bi/tri focal? I wear glasses myself (far sighted) and switched over to progressive lenses so I could see close up with out searching through the trifocal for the right lens, it helped. YMMV
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You want your target blurry as well as your rear sight and your front sight clear. I have single vision glasses and it seems to help. I work in a job that requires quarterly qualifications with pistol/rifle/shotgun and I started noticing my sight picture changing and trouble lining up the sights. The glasses seemed to help only because it reduces eye strain. I believe the best thing to do is to keep practicing and get comfortable shooting. I mentioned the laser because I'm seeing being used a lot more by older shooters who can see the target but can't quite see the sights well enough.
Shoot the pistol your comfortable with and don't follow the hype on what is the best pistol.
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Do you really find an improvement with the single vision lenses? I got bifocals about 3 years ago and I have been having a hell of time with my rifles ever since. I have been blaming it on the bifocals since the rear sight seems to lineup right in "the line" of the bifocals. I guess my main question is: did you get your single visions ground to your near prescription or your far? (I was thinking of having a pair made to my far prescription this summer.)
Question #2: Is this a geriatric conversation or what?!? :razz:
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Tell you the truth, the glasses are so new I'm not sure. I went to the eye doctor explained the problem and got a check up. I know it is to far prescription and is supposed to slow the change in my eyes by reducing eye strain. I have seen guys that mount a small circular sight to the lense of their glasses for rifle shooting. I don't know if it would work for pistol shooting.
Another trick to try that I failed to mention is find a real bright nail polish and paint the front sight to make it easier to see.
Is this a geriatric conversation or what?!? You bet and I have been having them a lot more lately
here are a few sites on the subject (no pun intended)
http://www.gun-tests.com/performance/dec96agingeyes.html
http://www.cabelas.com/catalog/product.jsp?productId=742164
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I'm have fairly good sight at 51 years old, but I do wear corrective for distance and truthfully would not shoot the elk I have for several years without wearing glasses.
That being said we are talking about 20 yard shots. My 9mm is a Ruger P85 which is a really old boat anchor gun and I can bounce cans up the hill from 20 to 40 yards while they are still moving and even hit them in the air as it moves. The key is knowing where the trigger breaks, not sure if I can explain this but knowing the exact spot a bullet will leave the barrel based upon the amount of pressure on the trigger is key.
My Bushmaster Varminter two-stage trigger is a similar "feel" as you need to compress the trigger until you feel the resistance. At that point you can "break" the trigger REALLY easy for a very accurate shot. If you hold the pressure at the break point it is possible to get 2-3 rounds MOA in rapid fire.
Unless you have shot this may not make sense, but as I observed in the first post, firing 15 rounds a day isn't going to get you the "feel" for the gun you are shooting.
That being said we are talking about 20 yard shots. My 9mm is a Ruger P85 which is a really old boat anchor gun and I can bounce cans up the hill from 20 to 40 yards while they are still moving and even hit them in the air as it moves. The key is knowing where the trigger breaks, not sure if I can explain this but knowing the exact spot a bullet will leave the barrel based upon the amount of pressure on the trigger is key.
My Bushmaster Varminter two-stage trigger is a similar "feel" as you need to compress the trigger until you feel the resistance. At that point you can "break" the trigger REALLY easy for a very accurate shot. If you hold the pressure at the break point it is possible to get 2-3 rounds MOA in rapid fire.
Unless you have shot this may not make sense, but as I observed in the first post, firing 15 rounds a day isn't going to get you the "feel" for the gun you are shooting.
Ummm, this all very interesting now, sort of sitting on the sidelines watching all the ideas and comment going back and forth. I agree, about the range things, 4 to about 10 meters is about 80 or 90% of gun fights with pistols I should imagine. Problem here is things are a bit basic in Bulgaria more like a EU version of the bloody wild west back in the late 18th century. The guy who runs this range does not normally ( I think) move the targets. It seems there you go, around 20 to 24 meters like or lump it. But I do seem to find, for me anyway, the sights on this gun ( Arcus 98DA 9mil) appear to be very small, I thought of one crazy idea which popped into my head, was to get a pot of that stuff we played with when I was kid, day glow paint, green or orange, and use a very fine pencil brush and just tip the sights with it, should help to brighten things up a little. But as far as being accurate goes, if your looking for real world shooting, and not the Olympics. I can’t somehow see, a 9 mill slug wandering off on holiday somewhere, If you get my point, when your firing up to 20 meters and the slug is leaving the barrel at some stupid speed like 3 or 400 meters or more per second, how far is it going to wander from where you point it, in about 2, 1000ths of a second about 3000ths of an inch, I can live with that. I can’t see, a gun like an Arcus being that off. I can go with the idea of trigger not being that great, which can have a reasonable effect on someone’s hand/gun movement, I can buy that, but I would think, if your used to using it or get used to using it, I can’t see that’s going to make too much of a problem, again unless you hoping for the Olympics and medal, not me!
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iceman2,
You need to get a chronograph - to find out how fast the bullets are leaving you gun.
Pact sells one of the best here:
PACT Inc. - Home
You need to get your hands on a ballistics calculator to see what affects the bullet and how much once it leaves the barrel.
As an example a .22 caliber, 40 grain bulletleaving the gun at 1200 fps is blown 4.5" to the side by a 5mph wind in just 100 yards. You can get one that is free here:
HuntingNut » Top 30
There is also a forum on the site with some of the nicest folks on the internet - never any profanity or arguments just folks helping others.
You need to get a chronograph - to find out how fast the bullets are leaving you gun.
Pact sells one of the best here:
PACT Inc. - Home
You need to get your hands on a ballistics calculator to see what affects the bullet and how much once it leaves the barrel.
As an example a .22 caliber, 40 grain bulletleaving the gun at 1200 fps is blown 4.5" to the side by a 5mph wind in just 100 yards. You can get one that is free here:
HuntingNut » Top 30
There is also a forum on the site with some of the nicest folks on the internet - never any profanity or arguments just folks helping others.
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2,207 Posts
Iceman
Don't get distracted there is a possibility the gun isn't a tack driver but the main problem is you.
If you can't see the front site just put a light on your head so you can,you only need to see the front sight and the outline of your target.
Don't get distracted there is a possibility the gun isn't a tack driver but the main problem is you.
If you can't see the front site just put a light on your head so you can,you only need to see the front sight and the outline of your target.
From the manufacturers it’s around 350 meters p/s. On an indoor range of around 20, 24 meters, how much wandering am I gonna get from that, I can’t see it being off by say 2 or 3 inches by any calculation. I agree with the other comment, it’s gonna be down to good old ME, I am the one wandering off on holliday not the bullet.
The gun is a kind of modern take on the 1911 well proven hand gun.
The gun is a kind of modern take on the 1911 well proven hand gun.
Close enough...lol
If you use bi or trifocals getting single vision glasses for shooting may help...may being the operative word. It depends, I was having fits with my bi focals and later tri focals before I tried the no line glasses (progressive lens). It took some getting use them and now they come second nature. Way better than the lined ones, I was at the point of giving up, now I no longer have a problem picking up the front sight, where as before I had a heck of a time, and the lines that were always in the way, went away.
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