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ATF Approved Alternative to the Bump Stock (AR-15)

15K views 47 replies 26 participants last post by  zealster 
#1 ·
Been lurking these forums for a while, finally registered and figured I would share this if you haven't seen it already. It is a trigger assembly for an AR-15 that essentially turns your AR full auto. It comes with a selector to switch between safe > single shot > "full auto". The price is high as hell, but if you have the money, it is still pretty badass. Best of all, it comes with a letter from ATF (which I would recommend keeping with your rifle at all times) that basically states the trigger assembly is not an NFA item and is perfectly legal to use in current AR's/does not fall under "modfication of a semi-automatic rifle to a machine gun".

Anyways, here is the link: Tactical Fire Control, Inc.Tactical Fire Control, Inc.

Thoughts? Price aside, it seems pretty badass, though I personally think a single shot is more effective than full auto in a SHTF scenario, but thats a completely separate discussion.

Enjoy.
 
#5 · (Edited)
Fuzzee, I watched the video, and read the ATF letter, seems it an adaptation and do doubt an improvement to the "bump stock" idea. Auto is considered one pull of the trigger and the weapon continues to shoot until the trigger is released, Semi of course, requires one pull one fire (and thereby is the loophole they are using) If I am understanding this correctly, with this trigger, as with the bumpstock, you are still only getting one shot per pull of trigger, avoiding the "automatic" like with the bumpstock, the recoil of the weapon causes a person finger to pull the trigger faster than a person normally could, resembling full auto when fired.
I have shot my buddy's AR-10 with a bumpstock, once you get the feel for it, it does act like full auto, which I have shot the M16 when I was in the Army. My guess is it is legal (as of right now) but like the guy said, I would darn sure keep the letter with me when I had it out, and most gun ranges probably would have a problem with you shooting it.
If I wanted a weapon that would preform "like an auto" I would give is some serious thought, it probably works better than the bumpstock.
 
#9 ·
Auto fire is a last resort a hail mary. Except in longer distance area coverage with larger caliber weapons they seldom hit the mark.
Final line of defense has been breach all hope is lost let it rip, but other wise just a Move plot.
Even the M4 is 3 round burst for a reason. The only squad level full auto weapon is the SAW 249 it is a suppression weapon .
Full auto fire makes them stay put and keep their heads down while the rifle man does the killn
 
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#14 ·
Some studies have shown that in the Vietnam war 50,000 rounds down range to produce 1 hit.
Sounds crazy? the environment ,full auto fire with the M16A1 and reliance on volume of fire virus shot placement.
Full auto is hard to control even in well trained hands, shots are often waked into the target.
Think about this firing rate of say 500-600 rounds a minute 20 to 30 round mags, standard combat issue load 210 rounds rifleman, machine gunner 400 plus other members of fire team carry 100 for the Saw total 800 rounds for machine gunner 630 rounds for the rife man. Saw fires up to 800 rounds a minute.
On full auto all hell broke lose no control of fire how long can you fight.
Infantry fire team/squad 4 men 3 rifles 1 203 and a Saw 249 used wisely a force all it's own uncontrolled 4 dead men.
 
#17 ·
I appreciate the heads up, but I don't expect I'll be a part of a final protective line, nor do I expect to be a member of a team likened to a couple of my past. If so, I'd bite the bullet and get a full-auto. I can see how it would be a fun toy to have, but I'm not willing to waste the ammo. I guess I'm too stingy. Besides that, I have other things that must be bought and am trying to get them while other bills are being dumped on me.

I'll pass it along to some other people with too much ammo and money. I thank you for them in advance. They'll be in Kudzu-Commando Heaven!
 
#18 ·
Many moons ago, a company manufactured a trigger disconnect mechanism that fit inside the trigger guard of any semi automatic rifle. It cost a whole lot less than what these folks are selling and was just about as good. As one other says it automatically breaks a shooters trigger pull so that the trigger keeps resetting. But other than a great way to drain a bank account. it takes a whole lot of practice ammo to learn how to properly fire a weapon on "full auto"
 
#21 ·
I just like having the option if I ever need it and once or twice a year go fire a mag or 2. I have a "Bumpski" bumpstock on an AK
and I do just that, shoot it semi 99% of the time and a few mags in 'continuous fire" as they call it so far this year. It is cool but not practical
but still like to have it if I thought I needed it.
 
#22 ·
Friend of mine that owns a range got what I think was called the slide fire. He brought it out and I gave it a try and I was surprised at how well it worked. The rate of fire was slower than a full auto AR but it didn't jam and you could go from auto fire to semi-auto effortlessly. There are a number of different things on the market and the paper clip trick (google it) to make a semi auto weapon bump fire.
 
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#23 ·
No because this isn't the movies. I used to demonstrate this in the academy to the trainees, I would place 10 man size targets at different distances but all within 100 yards. I then would first spray and pray on full auto swinging the rifle side to side just like in the movies. The time and hits would be counted and then I would do the same thing with controlled aimed bursts and finally with aimed semi-auto fire. No matter the person doing it as long as they were trained to use the rifle, semi auto was always the most lethal followed by burst and full auto spray and pray would have little to no hits on target.
 
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#24 ·
Yes. What I believe your talking about is a full frontal in that you spray fire down range at the targets (people) which would dive for cover return fire, flank you, and kill you. As for scaring your typical street urchins, well it's like the argument that merely racking a shotgun or displaying a weapon will send an attacker fleeing. It may work but would you stake your life on it?

The worst attack is a full frontal assault, the only way out of an ambush is a full frontal assault.
 
#25 ·
It has been approved by the ATF as a self resetting SEMI_AUTO trigger and does not make your AR into a full auto machine gun.

Your AR remains a semi-auto but the trigger is forced to reset by the bolt for each shell fired. For all practical purposes this is a full- auto trigger but because it is reset - even with pressure on it - it remains classified as semi- auto. It is not a "bump fire" system.
 
#29 ·
Take a look at the video and the ATF license letter. You will understand it a little better after that. The big difference is that you don't have to release the trigger to reset it. You can hold pressure on it all the time.
 
#30 ·
Bump stocks are a easy way to shoot full auto without a license, but as the military learned about 3 decades ago full auto is not as good as accurate fire in 1-3 round bursts which I can get easily with my 2 stage trigger in my AR
 
#31 ·
I definitely agree - thats why I mentioned single shot is definitely preferable in my opinion to full auto in a SHTF scenario. I saw someone mention that full auto would be beneficial if you were a lone gunman facing down 10-20 adversaries; the reality is, your enemies are not going to line up in neat rows or stand out in the open in groups conveniently for you to mow them down with one pull of the trigger and 30 rounds using automatic fire. If you have line of sight on your enemies and you start firing with a full auto rifle, you will probably take out 1-3 on a good day before the rest are all behind cover, and at that point you will then be wasting ammo just to keep them pinned down. Full auto is good in a squad, as the individual designated to carry the auto weapon can lay down support fire, pinning the enemy and allowing either a flank or well placed shots from other members to take out enemies. I will stick with semi-auto all day long - saves me money, makes it hurt a little less every time I go shooting and come home to find out I blew through 200 rounds, and it doesn't draw as much attention.

As for the product itself - just for shits and grins, I think it could be fun. But at the same time, I wonder if it would be uncomfortable having your finger bouncing on the trigger after every round. In the video if you look at his trigger finger, it bounces on the trigger as it resets after each round and looks like it would be irritating. Maybe I will have to buy one and try it out/write up a review - can always throw it on Armslist if it doesn't work out I guess. Will also make my friends jealous, which is always fun ;P
 
#33 ·
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