Prepper Forum / Survivalist Forum banner
21 - 37 of 37 Posts

· Registered
Firearms & Self Defense.
Joined
·
4,613 Posts
Uh, since when can the police impersonate a lawyer?
It seems that in 2008:
Monroe County Sheriff's Detectives Doug Brannon and Pat Henry actually posed as a federal defense attorney in an attempt to get incriminating information out of suspect John Edward Dawson, who was in jail on a host of charges, including theft and drug distribution. Not only that, but in doing so, they also talked Dawson into refusing to cooperate with his public defender and to plead guilty to the charges against him. They communicated with Dawson via a jailhouse informant.

Dawson's public defender was so taken aback by his assurances to her that he had a "federal lawyer" who had worked out all of his charges, that she actually asked for a psychiatric evaluation. When all this came to light, Dawson's (real) attorney asked for a continuance in his case so she could assess the damage. Remarkably, Tennessee Tenth Judicial Judge Amy Reedy refused the request, ruling that Dawson made "a real dumb decision" and that he had "picked his poison."
Tennessee Cops Posed as a Defense Attorney To Get Suspect To Incriminate Himself - Hit & Run : Reason.com

I will admit, it only happened once, and it was garbage police work. They used an informant, but it happened, and the judge refused a continuance! Are you kidding, how could he refuse that? And the guys lawyer thought that he had gone NUTS.


 

· Registered
Joined
·
11 Posts
Check out this video from J.J. of Reality Survival, What he would do after a self defense shooting.


In the video he gives an example of what you should say to the police and I really like it. Instead of just lawyering up you give a small explanation and show that you will cooperate while lawyering up.

"I would like to speak to an attorney before I provide a written statement or answer any questions. But I want you to know that I am the victim of this crime and that I was afraid for my life. I felt that if I did not defend myself the criminal was going to kill me. I will fully cooperate with your investigation and I will sign the complaint against the criminal. But because the issue is so serious I would like to consult with an attorney before answering any aditional questions."

He also gives some aditional advice that I thought was good and I added to it to further expand your actions that you should follow thru with.

As soon as you stopped the threat, kick the criminals weapon away from him and do not touch. You do not want your prints on it. When the scene is safe, make a brief video and pictures of the scene, do not speak while you are filming, your attorney may want to use your video in court. If there is a serious fact that should be pointed out then make a very quick secondary video. Holster your weapon when officers arrive to show you are not the threat. Show arriving officers any evidence on scene. Any casualties and if you received any wounds. Also point out any surveillance cameras in the area(some cameras are on a loop and if you do not remove the video it may get recorded over). Point out any witnesses that saw the incident happen. If anybody tries to leave before the police arrive ask them to stay. If they still insist on leaving then take a picture of them and/or their lisence plate number.

Forward text/email copies of your pictures and vidoes to another source that law enforcement cannot immediately seize like an email account that is not accessible from your phone for safe keeping your attorney would be a very good recipient. Keep your phone password protected and do not release your password until you speak to your attorney. Get the names of reporting officers, badge numbers and the report number of the incident for your attorney.

Somewheres in the process after the scene is safe you will want to provide first aid to other victims and the criminal or get a bystander(s) to assist you in rendering aid. Becareful that evidence will not be disturbed or destroyed. When the criminal tries to sue you for shooting him or her it will look better that you provided aid after you defended yourself from being attacked. Keep your mouth shut except to your spouse or your attorney. There is no statu of limitations for murder.

Something to consider is that 911 will try to keep you on the line until the cops get there. Either do your quick video before you call or politely but firmly tell them you have to go and hang up on them.
At some point seem more like an advice for homicide then a self defense situation. ..

Inviato dal mio SM-G800F utilizzando Tapatalk
 

· Registered
Joined
·
2,703 Posts
Discussion Starter · #26 ·
Another statement.

Try to video tape this statement and reactions.
1. I do not consent to searches.
2. I am not speaking to you or answering any questions and I want to speak to an attorney.
3. I do not agree to stay here with you for any reason. Are you detaining me or am I free to go?

The rest will be Michigan specific self defense information.

MICHIGAN SELF-DEFENSE ACT (EXCERPT) Act 309 of 2006
780.972 Use of deadly force by individual not engaged in commission of crime; conditions. Sec. 2. (1) An individual who has not or is not engaged in the commission of a crime at the time he or she uses deadly force may use deadly force against another individual anywhere he or she has the legal right to be with no duty to retreat if either of the following applies: (a) The individual honestly and reasonably believes that the use of deadly force is necessary to prevent the imminent death of or imminent great bodily harm to himself or herself or to another individual. (b) The individual honestly and reasonably believes that the use of deadly force is necessary to prevent the imminent sexual assault of himself or herself or of another individual. (2) An individual who has not or is not engaged in the commission of a crime at the time he or she uses force other than deadly force may use force other than deadly force against another individual anywhere he or she has the legal right to be with no duty to retreat if he or she honestly and reasonably believes that the use of that force is necessary to defend himself or herself or another individual from the imminent unlawful use of force by another individual. History: 2006, Act 309, Eff. Oct. 1, 2006.

https://www.michigancriminallawyer-blog.com/2012/04/the-right-to-act-in-self-defen.html

https://www.cyabdolaw.com/5th-amendment-right-to-remain-silent.html

Michigan Legislature - Section 780.972

What does your state law say? Please reference the actual law.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
9,222 Posts
If it happened to me again, today's time frame, I would need an ambulance for real or the coroner.

I don't have any heart condition, but the stress of another incident would probably bring it on.

At my age (76) there is no option of a retrograde action, fight, win or die or die post incident, only options.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
2,703 Posts
Discussion Starter · #29 ·
I like this guys channel. He is a cop and a trainer so he has some good prepping videos. He recently did some videos on taking prisoners. Here they are, you have to check the dates to get them in order:

Prepper Security: Include This in your Firearms Training to Stay Out of Jail

Prepper Security: Taking Detainees During SHTF - Tight Quarters Control

Prepper Security: Taking Prisoners During SHTF - Using an Arm Lock

Prepper Security: Taking Prisoners During SHTF - Using the Figure 4

What You Need to Know About Making a Citizen's Arrests
 

· Registered
Joined
·
2,703 Posts
Discussion Starter · #30 ·
If you subscribe to his channel tell him Swamp Fox sent you. :vs_wave: Actually I hope you all do subscribe. He has a really good channel with a broad range of topics and most important is that he interacts with his viewers. I will cancel a channel in a heartbeat if they don't at least try to comment back here and there.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
2,703 Posts
Discussion Starter · #31 ·

· Registered
Joined
·
6,223 Posts
I've thought about this, and the one thing that concerns me is something called "disparity of force."

I have a Wisconsin CCW. If I'm attacked by a guy with a knife or a club, will the DA charge me because I used a .45 ACP to save my life?

The other side isn't bright either. Let's say the guy does attack me with a knife or a club. I'm a professional knife polisher, and some of my knives are 3.2 million grit where a stock jackknife is 320 grit, and your Schick razor might be 15,000 grit. Also, knife fights are bloody and grotesque. Would the use of the knife be worse?

Then again, look at us as a group. Preppers, bikers, blue-collar guys. I live within Dane County, Wisconsin. Most people in power (except for the Governor) are liberals. I'm not sure that a valid CCW license, or a switchblade sanctioned by Governor Walker repealing the 1958 law will mean a darn thing to those in power.

The victim does not cease being the victim if he becomes a victor--except in Madison.

https://www.snopes.com/photos/gruesome/kunsan.asp
 

· Registered
Joined
·
3,519 Posts
I have already had one self defense situation and I can tell you that the system is not your friend.

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk
absolutely...the idea of a speedy trial is to allow folks to hear the issue soon and while ground truth is relevant. The new norm is that fast is a year later and the best you get is a monday morning quarterback analogy... folks do not comprehend the situation. Do not give them audio, to go along with the video, or recounting....
 

· Registered
Joined
·
88 Posts
I took a class at the beginning of the year put on by Suarez International. The class had an extra day added to try out a new class they were considering adding to their lineup called Killing Within The Law.

Killing Within The Law was put together by a police officer and an attorney. The class was amazing and we only got the short version. They give you perspectives on things that you never think of from both sides - the police officer and your attorney.

I don't see that they have it listed on their current line up of classes, but I know they did do the class on its own several times last Spring/Summer. It is worth your time and money: https://suarezinternational.com/suarez-firearms-training/

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk
 

· Registered
Firearms & Self Defense.
Joined
·
4,613 Posts
I've thought about this, and the one thing that concerns me is something called "disparity of force."

I have a Wisconsin CCW. If I'm attacked by a guy with a knife or a club, will the DA charge me because I used a .45 ACP to save my life?

The other side isn't bright either. Let's say the guy does attack me with a knife or a club. I'm a professional knife polisher, and some of my knives are 3.2 million grit where a stock jackknife is 320 grit, and your Schick razor might be 15,000 grit. Also, knife fights are bloody and grotesque. Would the use of the knife be worse?

Then again, look at us as a group. Preppers, bikers, blue-collar guys. I live within Dane County, Wisconsin. Most people in power (except for the Governor) are liberals. I'm not sure that a valid CCW license, or a switchblade sanctioned by Governor Walker repealing the 1958 law will mean a darn thing to those in power.

The victim does not cease being the victim if he becomes a victor--except in Madison.

https://www.snopes.com/photos/gruesome/kunsan.asp
Always assume that you will be charged, so be prepared to defend your actions in court. You know how dangerous a man with a knife is, so you will want to guide you attorney, since he doesn't know that. If he can flush out some cases, where a man with a gun used it in self-defense against a knife that would help. The jury must be made to understand, that there is only the appearance of disparity. Since, the knife wielder can kill with a single stroke, against the carotid artery. A club is no less dangerous, but the jury must be convinced of that, which can be done. If someone busts your skull, and spills your brains, you will be very dead. If they understand that, they will take your side.
 
  • Like
Reactions: MaterielGeneral

· Registered
Joined
·
2,703 Posts
Discussion Starter · #37 ·
Always assume that you will be charged, so be prepared to defend your actions in court. You know how dangerous a man with a knife is, so you will want to guide you attorney, since he doesn't know that. If he can flush out some cases, where a man with a gun used it in self-defense against a knife that would help. The jury must be made to understand, that there is only the appearance of disparity. Since, the knife wielder can kill with a single stroke, against the carotid artery. A club is no less dangerous, but the jury must be convinced of that, which can be done. If someone busts your skull, and spills your brains, you will be very dead. If they understand that, they will take your side.
When I was going through the Georgia Corrections Academy I visited the library. The academy is also for the state police just different sections.

There were knife videos showing the response time needed to protect yourself from attack. Very interesting and deadly topic. If it is a concern I would research the professional knife videos (recognized by law enforcement)and get copies.

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk
 
21 - 37 of 37 Posts
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top