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Discussion Starter #1
I wanted to reach out and talk about some reality issues of a "TRUE SHTF" scenario.

First off, I want to define what a shtf event is, because I do not think everyone is on the same page with it. IF a SHTF issue occurs, there is none of the following:

1. Water
2. Gas (LPG or Gasoline)
3. Electricity
4. Limited technology which will lead within 5 days to ZERO availability
5. No available 911 or emergency services are available / reachable
6. Government is, at a minimum, fractured or unable to respond (effectively paralyzed)
7. National Guard is 100% activated
8. Marshal Law is declared
9. Writ of Habeus Corpus is Suspended
10. No semblance of Central Control is available // media has failed (a bad thing, yes)

So, this is MY SHTF scenario and it pans-out over a very short period of time, say 3-21 days. When it comes to the ABSURD, I want to err on the side of the REAL, so my plans follow along this thinking and lines. The time frame for collapse is so different/vast because I am trying to account for anything from alien invasion to rogue nuclear strike, terror strike to natural disaster and that makes planning, BOL, and materials logistics a very, very difficult task.

I also want to make very clear that I will mobilize differently for a given situation; nuclear may be too late, but natural may be manageable... Deadly force may not be required, but then again, certain situations may require it.

This being said, with consideration that in my REASONABLE scenarios, I have not devulged my BOL or plans (as it were) for re-location or method of obtaining my goals to protect my family and loved ones (as well as my followers/supporters). I have not purchased property, planned a re-location with someone else, or decided to trespass on someone's property... rather, I am going to places where there is no additional threat from property owners protecting their stuff, nor am I going to threaten someone else's fall-back point.... I am going to place that are on the map, off-the-grid, and has no threat of another RATIONAL human... and NO, I am not telling you where... not even the region. If I purchase, there are records... I f I drill, build, or modify, there are records... so, I just will not so it because it is too easy for a foreign invader to get those records and know exactly what they need to send to destroy me and my group... I will be invisible, transparent, and unpredictable.

No one knows where I will go; there are more than 12 places I may retreat to. We will have ZERO modern electronics, relying on basic comm systems and support/survival methods and techniques. Hard? yes... yes it is. BUT we are not easily track-able, traced, or located because we need nothing and 'no-where' that we can tracked to.

We will operate with small arms, .22, pellet, as well as bow/crossbow, and large caliber for long shots (one-offs)... we will be silent. We will live 100% off the land, enjoying the bounty and supply which is hard to find in my areas, but if others know how hard it is, they will not re-locate their and that offers me more security because they will also figure it is unrealistic for anyone to evacuate their.

I believe in obscurity and obfuscation as a rule to survive in a true SHTF scenario. This means that I keep it (locations and logistics) to myself from a command perspective. We are prepared to make the sacrifices, no different than those before us, for a time of ultimate survival; we have studied, trained, and adapted to the requirements of a given situation (if any ever occurs). I have to be ready to return to nomadic methods, to the rules of 10,000 years ago in order to survive. Attempting to keep/utilize computers, phones, or any other modern amenity is unrealistic and ideologically faulted; it is a complete reversion to pre-history traditions to survive any of it.... even then, it is a heavily anti-positive scenario for me and my group, but WE will try... that is all we can do.

Best to all of you, and think before you act.,
sean
 

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Partner, . . . I don't mean to sound mean spirited, . . . but if you need all that to be a shtf scenario, . . . you live in a different world than I've ever seen.

If any of the first three and I assume you meant the internet for #4 were to go down for a week, . . . the welfare rats will be on you and me like cockroaches after a spraying.

Shtf within 35 miles of my place if we get more than 15 inches of snow in 2 days for cryin out loud.

You may not know that grocery and hardware stores, lumber yards, convenience stores, . . . all have a 7 day or less inventory, . . . and when the vultures suspect trouble brewing in welfare land, . . . the hoarders and grabbers react, . . . cleaning and clearing the shelves.

And unless you have an underground shelter that has no entrances or exits, . . . you are easily found, . . . not "you" personally, . . . but everyone can be totally located, mapped, plotted, and scheduled for introduction to the blue helmets, . . . in less than 24 hours after an emergency is declared, . . . and it can be updated every 48 hours.

If you don't know what the term FLIR means, . . . might want to look it up, . . . nothing with a warm body, or breathing, or heating food, or using an piece of internal combustion equipment can stay off the radar for any great length of time, . . . you ARE findable, . . . quickly.

Yes, . . . expect to have to defend, . . . but also realize that the majority of folks are all looking to get back to square 1, . . . that is where the effort will be, . . . and anyone who is adamantly or obviously not doing so will be suspect.

Good luck, . . . and like you said, . . . think before you act.

May God bless,
Dwight
 

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Some of us are old enough to remember days of rage, Detroit burning no t those are not hit songs.
It happens so fast and follows not check list.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
I hear you Dwight, I really do.

I cannot say more than I did, I merely wanted to open the eyes of those in our community that think they need to have a computer. a phone, or a TV (along with other optional things) that a TRUE shtf scenario means going back to true needs, and no wants. I wanted to relay that there really is no way to bug-out with the pleasantries we have today, rather one needs to consider what they absolutely need, what they can acquire on their own, and finally what it may take to get needed things.

I have not and will not divulge specific plans or items of mine because I believe the less known of me (and my plans) will afford me and mine better protections. My biggest risk is just what you said regarding the 'blue helmets", but I will counter with this... my area for BOL is cave-related; We can disappear... my plan is much better than having 'property' logged in a County Registry which will be one of the first things that a foreign invader will go to.

FLIR rocks! period. BUT, if you are 40 feet in a cave, you are better off... yes, I do understand and am fully aware of the tech that has been developed for cave in the last decade, but it is still better than a property... even a bunker (which is only a few feet in the ground (I am NOT against bunkers, in fact I have designs for them, but I will not use them myself outside of natural disaster.

God Bless to You, too!
 

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I guess it boils down to your personal reality and wants.

If my recon (physical, radio, digital) tells me there is a society then I'd like to be part of it. If that society is something I need to avoid that is fine, but if it's striving for freedom, capitalism, and showing signs of strength and good nature I want to help it, be part ofit and promote it. If I need to be remanded to my property fine, and if some ugly force of man decides to venture to my property with I'll will......well they'll like leave in lessor form then they arrived and would be easier for you to deal with (you as in all of you).
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Yes, Ripon.

I agree with that... my analysis and point was a scenario far beyond the ability to recover/continue the American Dream and Ideologies (which I treasure).
 

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I think the smartest BOL ever is a state park. Granted, in some SHTF scenarios the government might hypothetically use them to shelter the national guard or stage equipment, but for most scenarios they make perfect sense... abundant natural resources, seclusion, in most cases, pre-made shelter... It really seems like a no brainer to me...

The other really good option is hiking shelters like they have on the Appalachian trail. They're always at least a day's hike away, and people will generally come from one of 2 directions. Wells are already tapped for drinking water, so that crosses 2 of the major 3-5 necessities for survival.

And like srtayl said, there's no record of your whereabouts if anyone did decide to come looking for your resources.
 

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I don't know how or when the SHTF but I'm pretty sure I'll recognize it when it does.
Which means all I can really do is the cover basics and deal with the rest as it happens.
 

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If I purchase, there are records... I f I drill, build, or modify, there are records... so, I just will not so it because it is too easy for a foreign invader to get those records and know exactly what they need to send to destroy me and my group... I will be invisible, transparent, and unpredictable.
sean
Yes, lots of public records, but that would mean someone was looking for your specifically. And if the technology is all shit, say EMP, then there are no records.
There will be a pouring out from the cities, they will go where they think others are not and once there they will realize that they can't survive and look to do what they must to survive...you may not be so alone.

A FLIR device will also be dust if there is an EMP.

Caves are few and most are known.

If you really believe in a SHTF scenario, and I believe that is why we are all on this forum, then you should move out of the cities, towns onto property where you can bug-in. Clearly if you are worried about Nuke plants, volcanoes, Tsunamis, etc, don't move near them. I just don't see a bug out strategy working. Rita Remembered: Evacuating Houston

If there is an EMP, then many or perhpas most vehicles will not run. Only old vehicles, those with no electronics are guaranteed to run. An EMP may not be the SHTF cause, but its as likely as any, perhaps more. It is for sure now a first strike weapon and a very low cost terrorist weapon.
 

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Attempting to keep/utilize computers, phones, or any other modern amenity is unrealistic and ideologically faulted...
So you say. I can keep my electronic device functioning and thus be able to carry a wealth of information that can only help in the long run. I have the skills and knowledge to make it without this additional resource, but having it gives me an edge. I would rather have an advantage, no matter how small, than find myself at a disadvantage. The big advantage is later on down the road, when it comes time to rebuild a society.

Anyway, you are free to think as you will. The most any of us can do is make plans based on our expectations... and hope we are right.

Good luck to you and yours.
 

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Do you seriously consider non family members who are a part of your mutual support group as "followers and supporters"?
 

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Rickfromillionois,
Preppers tend to be alpha personalities. At least where there is prepping, there is a person that leads an drives it all. When you bring such groups together, the Alphas, do not work well together. There has been several episodes of Doomsday Preppers, where there has been conflict....conflict even though they all know they are being filmed. That is if you can believe anything you see on that show.

Also, I find that there are many that talk about prepping and SHTF, but few that actually lift a finger to prepare. Such people tell me that "we need to come together if SHTF". "We will be stronger as a groups because we will have a broader skill set" There is certainly truth to this, but the reality is they would be draining my stores and they might want to talk about what they bring to the table, but in my case, the only benefit is security in the form of strength in numbers. Beyond that, I have it covered.

I will do it alone, with just my family. God help the people that come in numbers and attempt to take what I have.
 

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One can overthink these things and in the process loose sight of the objective. I tend to keep it simple, there are two main SHTF categories, natural and civil.

Each presents problems that are unique and yet both will share a lot in common when approached from the prepping perspective. So much so in fact that a natural disaster of sufficient size will have elements of, or lead to a civil disaster. A civil disaster will degrade the environment and a degraded environment looks a lot like a natural disaster.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
I wanted to address a couple comments that I overlooked last night just to set the record straight on my opinion(s).

The 10 things I addressed are not exhaustive, nor are they all inclusive; if any one of these things happens because of attack, EMP, Flares, and so on, that is my trigger to mobilize after a quick analysis.

I will have family members and friends; we are like-minded although we are also individuals who will see and conclude differently introducing conflict... I would be absolutely ignorant to think otherwise. But, if the goals are the same, then the conflicts are easier and more probable to be resolved/agreed upon. I know I worded that poorly, but I did put quotes around it to attempt to relay sarcasm. We are a group, a team, with a common goal and an understanding of how to achieve it/them. A few of us are also long-term military with disaster and combat experience and a strict command structure must be instilled to protect everyone... it is not a democratic command but it is also not a dictatorship; the terms of order must be agreed upon prior to BOL orders. It just has to be this way for preservation and security reasons.

In this part of the Country there are many many places to go regarding caves, depressions, sink-holes, etc and millions of acres of reserved lands that are very isolated. Now, I do realize that caves and the like are very well known, BUT, there are many that are isolated, have tactical advantage, and are very difficult to get in to... that makes them a bit more realistic for me to get into but others to not consider for that difficulty.

Electronics... yes, I will have some. I have GMRS/FRS radios that are fresh in the box, no batteries, and would survive an EMP because of their current state. These would provide me and my group with quick communications for our semi-close quarters at a BOL. What I was trying to say is that I am taking directv dishes, receivers, computers, phones, etc... there just is no point and for every one of those items left out, I can add more ammo, food, and initial water supplies per person.

Vehicles... older, non solid-state, 4x4 vehicles that are just 'normal-looking' to a passerby... We do not want to raise eyes or appear to be a 'militia' type threat. The more normal we appear the more likely we will be disregarded; with the vehicle types, we at least have a chance to operate across difficult terrain.

Over-thinking is a killer, agreed. Many will opine that I am doing just that and trying to drill into the minutia of every scenario. This is just how my mind works and it always has. It has kept me alive this long and I would expect it to continue doing just that. I also believe, at least for myself, that I am not over-thinking, just vetting multiple scenarios and contingencies.

Thanks guys, and best to all of you.
 

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Twenty years ago my wife and I moved from the asphault/concrete highrise low life inhabited cess pool of South Florida to the country.
We have a small homestead on a dead end dirt road 6 miles outside a one stop light town of 2,000.
We have made-do and done without to become debt free. We have lived a self reliant lifestyle for a long time. We have worked hard for our little farm, we are not leaving, this is as good a place to die as any.
Besides, we Vietnam soldiers had a saying long ago and far away that still holds true today:
"We, the unwilling
Led by the unknowing
In the name of the ungrateful,
Have done so much
With so little
For so long,
That we are now qualified
To do anything with nothing."

I am not the only veteran on this board who has already lived through a real SHTF event that lasted a lot longer than a mere month or two.
We are survivors, and we will take care of and protect those we love.
The rest of y'all are on your own.
And i'm as serious as a heart attack.
 

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Let see
Katrina Rita and Ike
Tornadoes
Economic collaspe 2007 / 2008
Obama elected to office
Obama re elected to office
War on 2 fronts more or less
Syria
Sandy Hook
IRS, ATF, FBI, SS scandals
zimmerman trial ( Race War
boys and girls S has already HTF
DHS is gearing up for a civil war (FACT
 

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twenty years ago my wife and i moved from the asphault/concrete highrise low life inhabited cess pool of south florida to the country.
We have a small homestead on a dead end dirt road 6 miles outside a one stop light town of 2,000.
We have made-do and done without to become debt free. We have lived a self reliant lifestyle for a long time. We have worked hard for our little farm, we are not leaving, this is as good a place to die as any.
Besides, we vietnam soldiers had a saying long ago and far away that still holds true today:
"we, the unwilling
led by the unknowing
in the name of the ungrateful,
have done so much
with so little
for so long,
that we are now qualified
to do anything with nothing."

i am not the only veteran on this board who has already lived through a real shtf event that lasted a lot longer than a mere month or two.
We are survivors, and we will take care of and protect those we love.
The rest of y'all are on your own.
And i'm as serious as a heart attack.
amen rpd..
 
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