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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
You hear the same stories with every single caliber out there. Stories that go one of two ways #1.) Where a certain caliber put a man down with one shot proving the caliber is the way to go or #2.) Where a guys take several shots from a certain caliber and can run away proving the caliber is useless. I decided to talk about most underestimated caliber of all
 

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The 22 is the caliber that kills more people in the USA because they die of secondary infections.
If you shoot someone with a 22 into the center of mass they might leave or they might kep coming. He is likely to dies but it will be days later.
If you do get a shot off that cuts a major artery then it will still take him 30 seconds to a minute and a half to lose consciousness. Even with a knife he can do a lot of damage in the time he has left.
The 38 special +P is ok - not a good caliber because it doesn't do a good job of penetration and expansion. I know you can get bullets that expand at that velocity but they won't penetrate as far as a 40 or 45 will. The 9mm is ballistically the a bit less than the 38 special +P round but close enough to call them twins. The ONLY advantage that the 9mm has is the number of rounds you can fire. The 40 and 45 caliber guns are ballistically similar (40 S&W, 45 Colt and 45 ACP). They are good rounds for stopping a person coming at you but they will not penetrate a car door and still kill. The 357 magnum is a good round for stopping someone coming at you if you can handle the moderate recoil and big muzzle flash and blast. The only downside is that the flash and blast may blind or stun you if you use it in the dark.The larger calibers have their place but plan on having to check what is beyond your target because these rounds go a long ways. They will go through a car door and still kill but the recoil, muzzle blast and muzzle flash are more difficult to get used to.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
The 22 is the caliber that kills more people in the USA because they die of secondary infections.
If you shoot someone with a 22 into the center of mass they might leave or they might kep coming. He is likely to dies but it will be days later.
If you do get a shot off that cuts a major artery then it will still take him 30 seconds to a minute and a half to lose consciousness. Even with a knife he can do a lot of damage in the time he has left.
The 38 special +P is ok - not a good caliber because it doesn't do a good job of penetration and expansion. I know you can get bullets that expand at that velocity but they won't penetrate as far as a 40 or 45 will. The 9mm is ballistically the a bit less than the 38 special +P round but close enough to call them twins. The ONLY advantage that the 9mm has is the number of rounds you can fire. The 40 and 45 caliber guns are ballistically similar (40 S&W, 45 Colt and 45 ACP). They are good rounds for stopping a person coming at you but they will not penetrate a car door and still kill. The 357 magnum is a good round for stopping someone coming at you if you can handle the moderate recoil and big muzzle flash and blast. The only downside is that the flash and blast may blind or stun you if you use it in the dark.The larger calibers have their place but plan on having to check what is beyond your target because these rounds go a long ways. They will go through a car door and still kill but the recoil, muzzle blast and muzzle flash are more difficult to get used to.
The first thing to realize is shooting at ballistics gel, wet newspaper, milk jugs and so gives you an idea of what to expect but it doesn't really minic the human body that well, if you cut into wood or bone with a saw you may hit a knot unexpected, if you shoot into a body of water the bullet can make a sharp turn for no apparent reason, so i look only for a vague idea for what to expect. you may be correct about infection being the cause of death I'm not sure, but that would mean that most people would not seek medical attention after being shot. I look at a standard 10rd 22lr magazine as stabbing someone with a crochet needle 10 times with a common rifle mag thats 25, that will do serious damage to the body, and anyone in the family can make those shots with the very little recoil, as for the loud noise and flash at night I recommended subsonic 60gr 22lr in the vid if someone did want to use a 22. I don't believe it is the ideal caliber but I believe it can get the job done. Personally I believe the home defense champion is Mr.12 Gauge
 

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I have my CHL, . . . carry most of the time, . . . if for some reason my regular weapon is incapacitated, . . . my son's Browning Buckmark is carried.

I have no illusions that it will stop a locomotive or a dump truck, . . . but I train with it for the lower center of the face on the head. Ten rounds of CCI or it's equivalent landing within the area of nose, mouth, eyes, cheeks, . . . should take most of the fight out of just about any one.

I also carry a spare mag when I take it with me.

May God bless,
Dwight
 

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I agree with the above posters. The .22 is not the best, or even close, unless that is all you have then it is fantastic. I have numerous times dropped animals much larger than humans with a single shot well placed either in the eye or behind the ear. I have no doubt that the same results would be expected on a human. FYI, I would always use copper coated solids for self-defense.
 

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I will also agree that there are better options for a .22LF for SD....but a .22LF in hand is a hell of a lot better than the .44 Mag back home in the safe when crap happens.

Shot placement is the key for .45 ACP or .22LF and both will stop the threat. I carry a 1911 Officer Model and I am waiting for a NAA .22 Mag as a back up.

There is also a punch called a Nasty Nose to make .22LF expand more.

Karsten
 

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Gun Fight Rules (for this thread see number 6)
1. Bring a gun. Preferably, bring at least two guns. Bring all of your friends who have guns.


2. Anything worth shooting is worth shooting twice. Ammo is cheap. Life is expensive.


3.Only hits count.


4. If your shooting stance is good, you’re probably not moving fast enough nor using cover correctly.


5. Move away from your attacker. Distance is your friend. (Lateral and diagonal movement are preferred.)


6. If you can choose what to bring to a gunfight, bring a long gun and a friend with a long gun.


7. In ten years nobody will remember the details of caliber, stance, or tactics. They will only remember who lived.


8. If you are not shooting, you should be communicating, reloading, and running.


9. Accuracy is relative: most combat shooting standards will be more dependent on “pucker factor” than the inherent accuracy of the gun.


10. Use a gun that works EVERY TIME. “All skill is in vain when an Angel pisses in the flintlock of your musket.”


11. Someday someone may kill you with your own gun, but they should have to beat you to death with it because it is empty.


12. Always cheat; always win. The only unfair fight is the one you lose.


13. Have a plan.


14. Have a back-up plan, because the first one won’t work.


15. Use cover or concealment as much as possible. The visible target should be in FRONT of your gun.


16. Flank your adversary when possible. Protect yours.


17. Don’t drop your guard.


18. Always tactical load and threat scan 360 degrees.


19. Watch their hands. Hands kill.
(In God we trust. Everyone else, keep your hands where I can see them).


20. Decide to be aggressive ENOUGH, quickly ENOUGH.


21. The faster you finish the fight, the less shot you will get.


22. Be polite. Be professional. But have a plan to kill everyone you meet.


23. Be courteous to everyone, friendly to no one.


24. Your number one Option for Personal Security is a lifelong commitment to avoidance, deterrence, and de-escalation.
 

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#22,23 and 24 have proven the most beneficial to me. #24 happened in my driveway with a meth head last month
 

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A human full of adreneline will not be stopped with a 22. Not even slowed down. Humans full of adrenaline can have body parts blown off by RPG's and continue the fight. This has been documented.
If I can not have a high velocity centerfire rifle in a gun fight and must resort to a handgun, I want large caliber heavy bullets.
 

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Rice Paddy has a good point. If you don't stop or kill someone with your first shot adrenaline is going to be flowing thru his veins and he/she will feel no pain what so ever ntil you either cut his wires - spinal cord/brain stem, or punch enough holes in him for his blood pressure to drop to non sustaining levels. And 30 seconds to a minute is optimistic. We had a murder in a town where i worked. .32 out of a beretta tomcat. Punched right thru his chest and clipped his aorta (the big artry with all the pressure). He still walked over 50 feet opened the door to his apartment and walked inside and then collapsed. Bled out internally. If he decided to fight rather than walk away he could have easily snapped the shooter in half before he bled out
 

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Shot placement is everything and there is no perfect round. .22lr is better than nothing and is preferred by many career criminals because it is very difficult to ID and until recently very plentiful. More law enforcement officers have been killed by .22 caliber than any other caliber, due to its popular use by criminals more than its effectiveness. Knock down power is a fallacy because for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. What you feel when you shoot is what you get on the other end. Larger bullet, larger wound channel, and more likely chance to hit something vital.
 

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A fully oxygenated brain is capable of concious activity for up to 18 seconds after blood flow is stopped. Theoretically you could put a slug straight into a bad guys heart and if he had a gun in his hand he could still kill you.
I served with a man who was shot in the head by friendly fire from one of our own 50 caliber machine guns. He was still alive when he was loaded on the chopper. When it comes to gunshots and the human body nothing is garanteed.
 
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Remember that Sirhan Sirhan used a 22 pistol to assassinate RFK. They def work.

I can tell you that if I were to have a 22 pistol pulled on me, I would def back down.
 

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22 LR can be quite effective for self defense and other than military use probably accounts for the most gun related deaths world wide. At close range has always been very effective as they enter, don't exit and bounce around doing serious damage in some cases. Now would I pick one for SD not really as a 9mm or 45 ACP is a bit better choice besides the purpose of a hand gun is to give you time to get to a rifle.
 

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Remember that Sirhan Sirhan used a 22 pistol to assassinate RFK. They def work.

I can tell you that if I were to have a 22 pistol pulled on me, I would def back down.
The premise was personal defense. Sirhan Sirhan shot when RFK wasn't even looking.
Big difference between that and someone filled with anger attacking you. Big difference.
 
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all perps get a 3 round burst in my book, if I that does not stop them another 3 rounds will be fired. don't matter if it's my 1911 or a .22, they all get 3 rounds to the center of mass.
 

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I'm in with the .22 crowd as being an effective weapon.Is it the best?Of course not,but if someone was firing at me,I would not take the time to ask what caliber they were using.If I am the shooter,my first goal it to properly aim,no gun is any good if you don't hit anything.My second rule is I don't stop at one shot,empty the weapon if your intentions are to drop someone.Out of my 5 sidearms that I own,2 are .22 mags and 2 are .22's,plus several long rifles with various optics for varying situations or hunting.They are not my main weapons,but I don't feel inferior using any of the 4 for a sidearm.I seen a vid on youtube about the penetration power of .22lr's a while back and they shot through 1/2" plywood at 400 yds.Another reason for my sidearms being .22's is my wife and 13 yr old son are just as effective as me with them (they may need to cover my back someday).But they are not intimidated using them which really matters.My shotguns,.303 and my .223 are of no use when they are more nervous about firing the weapon than actually shooting someone.So my sidearm choices were meant to be family friendly so they could be all the more effective.Now for myself,i'm a bigger is better kind of guy.
 

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Would I use a .22 for self defense? Yes if thats all I had. That being said I take steps to ensure I have something more effective at hand usually 12 gauge or .357. If by some quirk of Murphy's Law I found myself armed with my 10/22 in a defensive situation I'd try for a head shot more than one if possible.
 

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A human full of adreneline will not be stopped with a 22. Not even slowed down. Humans full of adrenaline can have body parts blown off by RPG's and continue the fight. This has been documented.
If I can not have a high velocity centerfire rifle in a gun fight and must resort to a handgun, I want large caliber heavy bullets.
Love the .45 ACP, I learned to use in service.
 
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