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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hey all

Today i posted an the "How mutch ammo i need for SHTF Storage" Thread.
And i thinked about my storage and have a question.

What you mean is the better SHTF Cartrige, what do you storage, witch cartige have you mein SHTF weapon ?
In switzerland the "problem" is that no one have combat expirience and all people talk strange stuf.

223 is light and you can take more of it and the 308 is accurater on long range and more powerfull.

My Situation

- The Standard Cartrige of the Swiss armed forces is the 223rem
- I live in a small Town, a lot of wood and a big city is arround.
- If a big thing happend i will stay home if i can. For the ermergency i have a BOB in the Car and in the locker by the dore. Weaopons are in a Safe in the sleeping room.
- For the case of desaster i have a smal bob in a locker in my companie. But i cant storage any kind of weapon there... (I think to make an earty cache with pepperspray and a glock knife
- 22lr is a option for my wife, i will take the big ones ^^

Greeting from switzerland
Peppicorps
 

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You are probably going to get quite a few different answers and for me it would depend on the situation. If I have to hike all over and stay on the move the .223/5.56 weighs so much
less. If I'm staying in one bug in spot I'm going with my .308's / 7.62X51 . I have both caliber's standing by for that day!
 

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I think a lot depends on the distances you will shooting. If your area is wooded mountains, and you probably won't have to take a shot at much over 200-300 meters, then the .223 is the way to go. I would go with a rifle with 1 in 7 twist and use the heavier 62 grain bullets.

The fact that your military uses this round is just another reason you should use it too.
 

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The answer to this question and issue is very very simple:
BOTH
I'm not joking; having obtained an M1A this past year and seeing what I can do with it at 500 yards is very exciting.
The AR-15 I can use pretty good at 300 yards but now I have something I can use well at 300 + to a little more than 500 with a degree of accuracy and consistancy - something that I know when it its will pack a punch. Under 300 I don't need that much power so the AR-15 is just fine.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 · (Edited)
I have both calibers at home, i ask my self in witch kind of gun it us better to invest money in the next years ^^

223. Rifles

My Sig550

Rifle 120Dollar (Can i buy in 3 years from the Army)
10x20 Round Magazienes 900Dollar
10x30 Round Magazienes 1200Dollar
Picantiny handrail 500Dollar
Aimpoint M2 + Mount 700Dollar
10k Ammo (Barnaul) 4000Dollar
Sling 70Dollar

Sig553 Long Barel (Short Sig550)

Rifle 3800Dollar
Aimpoint 700Dollar
10x 20Round Mags 900Dollar
10k Ammo 4000Dollar

Sig516 (M4 Type)

Rifle 2600Dollar
Eotech X2 1000Dollar
10x Magpull Magazienes 600Dollar
10k Ammo 4000Dollar

Proarms MK3 (M4 Type)

Rifle 3400Dollar
300. Blackout Barrelsystem 1000Dollar
10xG-Mags 600Dollar
Eotech X2 1000Dollar
Ammo (2/3 223rem 1/3 300.) 6000Dollar

308. Rifles


M14 Norinco

Rifle 0 Dollar (I have it =))
10x 20Round Mags 600 Dollar
New Flashhider ? Dollar
EBR Stock 1200Dollar
New Scope 1000Dollar
10K Rounds 4000Dollar

Ruger Scout Rifle

Rifle 1500Dollar
10 Mags ?
Scope 1000-2000Dollar
10k Rounds 4000Dollar

A other projekt can be that i use the GP11, but its expensive...
Surplus ammo costs 70cents a round and factory ammo 1,07Dollar a round...

But the K31 are excelent Guns and the Sig510 is good for Support Fire but its realy hevy...
 

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308 is the best IMO. Heard and read that the military doesn't really like the 556 same with the 9mm. Sure you can carry more 556 ammo but if you have to shoot your target 2-3 maybe more times to put it down what's the point. One shot one kill. 2-3 shots everyone knows your location and now your taking the heat.

With the new body armor being more available and able to stop even the 762. Really makes the 556 even less of a option.
 

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If I had to chose just one, I would choose the .223. The ammo is readily available, it is accurate and fairly hard hitting, and can be used in either an "assault weapon" type of platform or used in conjunction with and accurate "sniper weapon" built off of a good bolt action rifle. It is also portable. There is a lot to be said for the .308. It is a wonderful cartridge and I wouldn't disagree with anyone who feels it is the right choice for them. Personally, I am a big fan of the 30-06 and that is what my battle rifles run. I do have a .223 or two also.
 

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5.56 is all but replaced .223
308 longer range more knock down, heavier ammo is heavy and a semi auto 308 many more dollars for a good one
5.56 light weight weapon you can carry twice as many rounds more range than you would normally need.
Real world you should have both
 

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Ask anybody who's been in Iraq about the two...

.223 is great for long distance ground squirrel hunting. A POS for anything bigger than that (well, maybe poodle size).

.308 WILL penetrate, do damage, and drop a human like a bad habit.

That said, if you were buying for the same reason 99 in 100 people.. To be "one of the boys" and follow the AR trend, and are just buying it to burn cheap ammo up at the range... Your only going to pull that off with a .223 AR variant. Best to buy the cheapest pos rifle available then add $2K worth of bolt on accessories to!
 

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Although I do have a few AR's in 5.56/223 and do like them very much. If I had to choose, I would take the .308 all day long. More range and much better ballistics downrange. The downside is the rounds are heavier. If you are at a bug out location weight is not a problem. A lot of people think they will be on the move forever. I don't think that way.. You might have to travel a ways to get to your new AO but it is only a temporary situation. I like to think ahead and plan for the big picture...

A BOL shouldn't be so far away that it is damn near impossible to get to it and most of your gear should be there already with maybe a few caches on the way. If you have to pack everything you have and take it AFTER a SHTF scenario, you are in for a world of hurt!!

So my choice in the .308. You always hear you can carry more ammo in 5.56 than .308 and don't get me wrong. I LOVE having plenty of ammo. But it is not how many rounds to throw downrange, it's what ya hit.. If you are having to shoot 1000 rounds at people on your way to a BOL.. Something bad is goin on!
 

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Lot of misinformation out there. If you are shooting 223 in an Ar m4 16 inch no wonder you have no knock down wrong round for a short 1-7 twist barrel.
The standard .223 is 55 gr the 16 inch 1 in 7 needs the 5.56 62 grain.
Put the wrong round in a 308 and it does not do what you want either.
The .223 was for the 20 inch 1 in 12 barrels
 

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Most of the basic important points of the two have been mentioned. I think it's best for a person to go by their situation and decide which is best for them. That's more important than anything else. I know if I had someone looking to do me or mine harm and had the two calibers to choose from to put them down before they harmed us, which one I'd choose every time and not's .223/5.56x45mm. That you already have an M14, means you should know what it's capable of. 2 people, one with an M14 and the other with a .22lr rifle cover a very wide field of use in the survival game. A person could do far worse. Like I said in the beginning though, a person needs to decide what's best for them in their situation.







:smile:
 

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In a bug out situation, . . . there will have to be a choice made, . . . which rifle. Better to make it now than then, . . . is my idea.

I chose the .308 platform simply because it is more versatile. I can shoot rabbits, squirrels, pheasants, deer, moose, bear, elk, pronghorn, . . . or I can shoot through car doors, through walls in a house, through garage or house doors, . . . if I need to. The .223 will not take down a moose, bear, elk, or pronghorn, . . . won't go through most house walls, some garage doors, and some house doors.

That is my reasoning, . . . realizing that if I go out, . . . the weight of two rifles and two ammo supplies makes me have to leave behind some other stuff more important at the moment than a second rifle. Having to choose only one, . . . the .308 gets the nod for me.

May God bless,
Dwight
 

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Rabbit with a 308, we make soup to night .
Sorry I just had a picture of a rabbit getting wasted with a 176 gr 308 in my head
5.56 will take down a bear it will go through house walls and light armor

 

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I like them both and the 7.62X39 too.

Should I ever have to choose one and leave the other, the situation will dictate what goes and what stays. Hopefully that time never comes. I enjoy having them all and the thought of having to part with one over the other is messed up.
 

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Peppicorps:

You have access to the weapon platform most firearms experts in the world consider to be the finest assault rifle ever made: the SIG 550 series.

I own a SIG 556 that was one of the early release 556s in America. I had been looking for one for ten years, and my dealer bought one and saved it in his vault for me. I bought it the moment I saw it. It has the Swiss bolt carrier group and Swiss fire control group. It is utterly reliable and has never failed to function in thousands of rounds. It shoots sub-MOA at 100 yards with 77 grain match ammo. It is an amazing rifle, and if I could get my hands on one with all Swiss parts I will have realized a lifelong dream. I consider a Swiss SIG 55x rifle to be the Rolex of assault rifles, and so do most firearms experts (I am no expert, but I know a good rifle when I shoot one). So get a long barreled SIG 55x and be forever thankful you can own one!

As to your original question, I think you need both 5.56 and 7.62 mm ammo and rifles. 5.56 is better for close quarters fighting common in urban areas where engagement ranges are shorter; heavier grain barrier blind bullets with open tip match (OTM) projectiles overcome most of the complaints about 5.56 lethality for combat where adversaries are behind light cover; a soldier can carry more ammo (double the number of rounds); and inside of 200 meters 5.56 penetrator or OTM (such as the new American SOST rounds) can readily defeat soft body armor. So in urban setting 5.56 with the right bullet is a great round, especially out of a SIG 553 or 551.

Over 250-300 meters, or when heavy cover exists, the 7.62 is a better choice. It chews through cover, it defeats light ballistic armor, it has enough firepower to kill with one shot, it can hit targets at 1000 meters, and is lethal out past 600 meters or more. So for rural settings or long distance shots (mountainside to mountainside in your country) it would be superior and more lethal. But it is heavy and takes up more space to carry on your equipment.

Personally, I think the ideal rifle would be one of each (one 5.56 and one 7.62). Gun companies are now making carbines (such as Colt) that have interchangeable upper receivers so both can be carried on a mission in warfare. That says it all right there as far as I am concerned. Me personally, I plan to carry both if SHTF. 7.62 for long range engagements or heavy cover; 5.56 for close in or light vegetation areas.

If you told me I could only have one, I would take the 7.62. It can do everything 5.56 can do, and do it from further away. And if I am going to be getting shot at, I plan to try and shoot at my enemy from outside of his weapon's effective range.... If we are in close I want something that will kill an enemy when they duck behind a wall thinking they have adequate cover. If you can shoot with accuracy and can carry the weight, and can neutralize an enemy with one shot instead of two or three, the weight difference does not matter. All that matters is you have stopped the gun fight...and live to tell the tale.

Survival is all that matters, in the final analysis.
 

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I'd love a Swiss made SIG 550, 551, and 552 myself. It doesn't get any better in a 5.56x45mm rifle for me. I've got my hands on a few and shot some of them and nothing fits me better. I love the steel receivers and design. I'd trade my piston AR for one at the drop of a hat and sell my neighbor to Thailand black-market dealers in a second. (I don't like her obviously) :mrgreen:








I still doesn't change though, if I had to choose between the two calibers to kill someone who was threatening me and mine, it wouldn't be 5.56x45mm before 7.62x51mm.
 

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When I have a few more bucks to blow on a want not a need.
Colt LE901-16S
 
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Some of the Army thinking .
The M14 was to long for close order combat with focus on Urban fighting a change would be needed even the 20 inch m16 was out of thew question.
Enter the M4
M14 about 13 lbs unloaded
M4 issue weight 7.5 loaded
100 rounds 308 9 lbs
100 rounds 5.56 3
beginning to see the options here those of us that carried them did.
 
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