a shotgun is a sucker's choice of a shtf longarm, almost as bad as a muzzleloader.
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a shotgun is a sucker's choice of a shtf longarm, almost as bad as a muzzleloader.

This is a discussion on a shotgun is a sucker's choice of a shtf longarm, almost as bad as a muzzleloader. within the Shotguns forums, part of the HandGuns, Pistols and Revolvers, Long Rifles, Shotguns, SKS, AK, AR category; find some solid cover, have a buddy stick out an 8" cardboard circle on a long stick, for 1-1.5 seconds, and then pull it back ...

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Thread: a shotgun is a sucker's choice of a shtf longarm, almost as bad as a muzzleloader.

  1. #1
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    a shotgun is a sucker's choice of a shtf longarm, almost as bad as a muzzleloader.

    find some solid cover, have a buddy stick out an 8" cardboard circle on a long stick, for 1-1.5 seconds, and then pull it back to cover, while you try to hit it, at a mere 35 yds, with slugs. you wont be hitting it with buckshot and a riot barrel, other than a 1 in 5 fluke. Try it for 5 shots. Most people are smarter than you. They'll be using cover, or be head on prone towards you, while wearing soft armor and a Kevlar helmet, neither of which your shotgun can pierce.

    Put up 5 silohuettes, abreast in a line, 2m between each of the targets, at 25m, fire one rd of standard 9 pellet 00 buck at each, with a riot barrel. Do this REALLY fast, say in 2 seconds, from low ready to the 5th shot, as you'd need to do if you were to have a CHANCE of stopping 1 or more of them from firing back at you. Then go count the pellet- hits in the 10" chest circle. You'll be VERY underwhelmed. At that range, each pellet hits no harder than .38 lrn out of a snubby does( at 10 ft) So the 1-2 pellets that hit the vitals will absolutely NOT be likely to result in the "hittee" not being able to shoot back at you, maybe quite a large number of rds, actually. Your patterns wont be centered on the "man", just like they wont in combat. If you were the type to have that sort of skill, you'd be practicing with 30c each 223's, not $1 per rd buckshot and slugs Your inability/unwillingness to practice that much is why you rely on the buckshot pattern.

    Sure, you can invest in a special tight choke, have all the pellets on the chest at 25m, but then they'll only be 3" wide at 10m, which is no real help at hitting. you'll not hit anything like that more than you'd hit with the rifle, and the rifle can be silenced and reach 3x as far as you can hope to do with 12 ga slugs. The 223 auto can have a .22lr conversion unit, for quiet foraging, indoor range use, 6c per shot practice, handling most shtf challenges (ie, head shots in the dark) using 60 gr subsonic Aquila .22 subsonic ammo. The parts swap between calibers takes just 10 seconds. The unit weighs just 3/4 lb, costs $300, fits in the thigh pocket of cammies. and it will group 2" at 50 yds or better and impact within 2" of the 223's POI at that distance, too. That's plenty good enough. for snapshooting training and slowfire hunting/sentry removal. . You can just "hold off" the amount needed to get the hit for a precision sort of shot. there's also a way to have both the 223 and the .22lr ammo zeroed to the sights, since you've got 2 wings on the rear sight.

    So you can hit a dove on the wing with the 12 ga, so what? you get 2 ozs of meat, while calling in your killers and then you can't even handle them if all they's got is .22 rifles and know to use cover from 100 yds. I've taken literally thousands of birds with .22lr rifles and pistols. They all land and you'd need a scores of tjhem per day in order for them to feed you adequately, or you'd need several each ducks/pheasants, or an entire goose. The ducks and geese have some fat, so you MIGHT get 1000 calories per lb, but the amount of meat needed just doesn't justify the bulk, weight, expense, and noise, flash at night, lack of takedown concealment, lack of a chromed bore and chamber, lack of luminous sights, lack of ability to be used worth a hoot with just one hand. The pump gun is a real pita to use from the prone firing position, and is very prone to being short-stroked when the user is under lethal stress.
    Last edited by okey; 09-16-2018 at 03:05 PM.

  2. #2
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    You make a lot of, unrealistic, assumptions.
    inceptor, bigwheel, ekim and 1 others like this.

  3. #3
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    This is exhausting. No longer fun. Bye okey


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

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  5. #4
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    Try killing a bear with a .22lr and get back to me. That would be about as stupid as the exercise you suggest. Look into sub caliber adapters.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jimb1972 View Post
    Try killing a bear with a .22lr and get back to me. That would be about as stupid as the exercise you suggest. Look into sub caliber adapters.
    And that is why I prefer a round or rifle that can do most everything vs only one thing.

    Where I live, we have deer, coyotes, groundhogs, turkeys, moose and even black bear.

    Per the late, great COL Jeff Cooper, I would rather have one rifle that can do it all well, vs a specialized rifle doing only one thing well.

  7. #6
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    I'm not sure where you got these assumptions: "They'll be using cover, or be head on prone towards you, while wearing soft armor and a Kevlar helmet, neither of which your shotgun can pierce."

    1. Head on prone with soft armor offers no protection whatsoever to the wearer. There is no protection on the shoulders to speak of, . . . the throat and face are completely vulnerable, . . . as well as the hands and arms. That makes a target area of at least 16 inches wide, . . . 15 inches tall, . . . and all vulnerable.

    2. A 12 gauge slug taking on a human being wearing a new or even next to new helmet, . . . will always be the winner. The slug's kinetic energy slamming against the helmet, . . . will slam the helmet into the wearer's head with a force that will crush the skull like a hammer doing in a robin's egg.

    3. Soft armor standing up, chest forward, . . . will also lose to the 12 gauge, . . . which will bust ribs like they were uncooked spaghetti, . . . it will push the sternum almost in to where it kisses the backbone, . . . it will totally rupture the heart and / or aorta, . . . making for a death of extreme pain over several minutes.

    Sorry, . . . computer commando, . . . you really don't know much, . . . period.

    May God bless,
    Dwight
    Denton, ekim, Real Old Man and 3 others like this.
    If you can breathe, . . . thank God.

    If you can read, . . . thank a teacher.

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  8. #7
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    Yall are making me want a shot of red eye in a dirty glass.

  9. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigwheel View Post
    Yall are making me want a shot of red eye in a dirty glass.
    Sir, never in a dirty glass.

    Do not disrespect the drink.
    bigwheel and rice paddy daddy like this.

  10. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by WhatTheHeck View Post
    You make a lot of, unrealistic, assumptions.
    He just assumes that everyone else is stupid.

    He has yet to show me he has any intelligence at all.

  11. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by WhatTheHeck View Post
    You make a lot of, unrealistic, assumptions.
    Had to inroduce Mr. Okey to Mr. Twit Filter. Driving folks crazy is not nice.
    rice paddy daddy likes this.

 

 
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