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American Eagle xm193 vs Federal .223 55 gn 100 round bulk pack

This is a discussion on American Eagle xm193 vs Federal .223 55 gn 100 round bulk pack within the Rifles, SKS, AR, AK, Long Guns forums, part of the HandGuns, Pistols and Revolvers, Long Rifles, Shotguns, SKS, AK, AR category; Few things to keep in mind. .223 55 gr was designed to be fired from a 20 inch 1 in 12 or 1 in 14. ...

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Thread: American Eagle xm193 vs Federal .223 55 gn 100 round bulk pack

  1. #11
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    Few things to keep in mind.
    .223 55 gr was designed to be fired from a 20 inch 1 in 12 or 1 in 14. It worked well and in good hands would make shots out to about 800 yards and in general 450 yards all day long. Down side was the weapons size.
    Down size it to the M4. Now the .223 is less effective.
    5.56 a higher pressure version of the .223. Meant to be fired from a 16 inch barrel with a 1 in 7,8 or 9 twist. It was clear the heavier 69-77 gr rounds were the most effective in a 16 inch 1 in 7. The 1 in 9 did better with the lighter 40-62 gr rounds , but the holes it made on paper did not produce results desired in the field.
    The 1 in 7 did fine with 55 to 69 gr. The US military SAW 249 full auto used the 62 grain. There you have it the M4 would used the 62 gr it was the best compromise .
    If all manufactured ammo was the same quality your 1 in 7 twist no madder the barrel length would be at it very best with 5.56 69-77 gr rounds.
    Regardless of all this the platform was meant to be light and to put holes in targets at varying ranges fast. It was not meant to shoot holes in holes on a paper range. Every version of the Platform did just that well. The M4 version made the weapon more useful and fit the soldiers needs better..
    Things to watch for shoot one shot and find two holes in target piss poor ammo and or over pressure the round is fragmenting. Clearly effect accuracy. Signs of over and under stabilize bullets generally do no show up until range increases to about 300 yards.
    One thing is for sure when trying to prove a weapon. The ammo must be equal in quality or once again you are chasing ghost. The range must not have wind. the barrel must be allowed to cool between shots. The weapon must be fired from a stable platform .
    Removing shooter input is a must.
    So how do you test/prove you AR15. Set up several full size silhouette targets 50 to 400 yards. Fire 3 rounds at each center mass , look at target did you hit it every time if so good to go move on . Tape the holes and now do it again this time 3-5 second rushes drop to knee or prone, stand shoot each as you move up.. Check targets did you hit them all if yes you are good to go. if not try again. Slow down keep working on it.
    If your goal is to rack up the highest score from a bench. Match a high end barrel with a target trigger and good optics. Match the ammo to the barrel and practice.
    If you are old and tried of the rush hide shoot stuff. Purchase a weapon that weights 14 pounds and made to shoot very well at 500 to 1000 yards sit where you are and shot them before they know you are there.
    In the end have fun on the range.
    Chiefster23 and RedLion like this.
    New life as a house husband, major shift in duties.

    Karl Marx said, "Destroy their culture, rewrite their history. Ruin their art and literature, and defame their heroes, by offering fabrications to scandalize that which they considered good.
    After reading this Obama said I am on it.

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smitty901 View Post
    Few things to keep in mind.
    .223 55 gr was designed to be fired from a 20 inch 1 in 12 or 1 in 14. It worked well and in good hands would make shots out to about 800 yards and in general 450 yards all day long. Down side was the weapons size.
    Down size it to the M4. Now the .223 is less effective.
    5.56 a higher pressure version of the .223. Meant to be fired from a 16 inch barrel with a 1 in 7,8 or 9 twist. It was clear the heavier 69-77 gr rounds were the most effective in a 16 inch 1 in 7. The 1 in 9 did better with the lighter 40-62 gr rounds , but the holes it made on paper did not produce results desired in the field.
    The 1 in 7 did fine with 55 to 69 gr. The US military SAW 249 full auto used the 62 grain. There you have it the M4 would used the 62 gr it was the best compromise .
    If all manufactured ammo was the same quality your 1 in 7 twist no madder the barrel length would be at it very best with 5.56 69-77 gr rounds.
    Regardless of all this the platform was meant to be light and to put holes in targets at varying ranges fast. It was not meant to shoot holes in holes on a paper range. Every version of the Platform did just that well. The M4 version made the weapon more useful and fit the soldiers needs better..
    Things to watch for shoot one shot and find two holes in target piss poor ammo and or over pressure the round is fragmenting. Clearly effect accuracy. Signs of over and under stabilize bullets generally do no show up until range increases to about 300 yards.
    One thing is for sure when trying to prove a weapon. The ammo must be equal in quality or once again you are chasing ghost. The range must not have wind. the barrel must be allowed to cool between shots. The weapon must be fired from a stable platform .
    Removing shooter input is a must.
    So how do you test/prove you AR15. Set up several full size silhouette targets 50 to 400 yards. Fire 3 rounds at each center mass , look at target did you hit it every time if so good to go move on . Tape the holes and now do it again this time 3-5 second rushes drop to knee or prone, stand shoot each as you move up.. Check targets did you hit them all if yes you are good to go. if not try again. Slow down keep working on it.
    If your goal is to rack up the highest score from a bench. Match a high end barrel with a target trigger and good optics. Match the ammo to the barrel and practice.
    If you are old and tried of the rush hide shoot stuff. Purchase a weapon that weights 14 pounds and made to shoot very well at 500 to 1000 yards sit where you are and shot them before they know you are there.
    In the end have fun on the range.
    I think you got so invested there you over complicated the issue. I’m not trying to put holes in holes here. I do like accuracy and shoot from the bench at paper sometimes to see what I can achieve there and tend to get pretty good results after finding what each gun likes to eat. Comparing these rifles at 400 yards in the manner that you described wouldn’t really be a true fair comparison. One is set up with a red dot (and irons), H2, brake/comp it’s built to shoot fast and does it well. The other has a 3x scope, H2, and plane Jane A2 bird cage. It’s more of an all around gun. I shoot both of them benched, prone, kneeling, standing, off of a tree lol. Anyways my point here was to figure out why the 5.56 hit low in the scoped rifle at 100 yards compared to the .223 it was zeroed for. I believe after writing here and doing a bit of thinking the answer is quite simple really. The height over bore of the scope is a bit different than irons. A little higher. The irons are also zeroed for the 50/200 method (yes I understand it’s different with yards vs meters). At 100 yards the 5.56 is probably still climbing pretty well as it should and the .223 may not be quite as much. Therefore the zero at 100 with .223 may be a bit over where it would be with the hotter 5.56 when looking at line of sight vs trajectory. I would almost bet at 150 a dead hold would result in an impact on the plate. I do appreciate all of the information you provided but I think I see what’s taking place here. I think it’s just a different trajectory with a different height over bore line of sight. If I would have thought of this and had more time to shoot I would have scooted back some and tested that theory. Next time out I’ll give it a shot, or two or three lol. Thank you though.

  3. #13
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    You may find some of the charts useful this one does show the 55 .223 and 5.56 62 50 and 36 yard zero
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails American Eagle xm193 vs Federal .223 55 gn 100 round bulk pack-50yard-zero.jpg  

    American Eagle xm193 vs Federal .223 55 gn 100 round bulk pack-36-yard.jpg  

    New life as a house husband, major shift in duties.

    Karl Marx said, "Destroy their culture, rewrite their history. Ruin their art and literature, and defame their heroes, by offering fabrications to scandalize that which they considered good.
    After reading this Obama said I am on it.

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  5. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smitty901 View Post
    Today turned into an unplanned range day. After church it was just check out the one AR that was setup to shoot the coyote . Almost a 1,000 rounds latter and several weapons It was clean up time.
    One thing we proved with out a doubt . Some of the bulk Federal 5.56 62 Gr we have is JUNK. At first we blamed the shooter, then the weapon we switched shooter , The switch ammo. It was the Federal ammo.
    We turned two ammo boxes of it in to brass. The AR10 6.5 Creedmoore came out so a couple that had never fired the caliber in an AR10 could experience it. Both wanted to take it home. It was also comforting to hear
    others in the area on their home ranges. It seem as if they were saying we are not alone.
    Was it the 62grn Green tip penetrator ammo that you were shooting? If it is, it is really 3 moa ammo at best.
    Smitty901 likes this.

  6. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by RedLion View Post
    Was it the 62grn Green tip penetrator ammo that you were shooting? If it is, it is really 3 moa ammo at best.
    Yes . And agree. Not all this bulk even name brand ammo is that good.
    Keep in mind the AR is an 18 inch WYLDE chamber 1 in 7. I fired some 77gr .223 Match 2790 FPS and it shot well however with it zeroed for 100 yards I had to use the 200 yard BDC to be on at 100 yards
    I shot some 69 Gr .223 match 2950 fps and it was right on at 100 yards and shot well. I have some sub MOA AR's Want I need right now is 2 inch at 400 yards . The direction I will be dropping that coyote , I just want to be extra careful.
    I want to try these same round in one of my Voodoo b16 inch 5.56 1 in 7 also just to see how they do. Also want to pick up some Match 5.56 in 69 and 77gr. The 62 gr 5.56 match I ave is 3050 Fps. Warm out now more fun sitting out on the range.
    Looks like this weekend a ride over to Sons place for some 500 and 600 yards stuff, with the 6.5 Creedmoore bolt and semi auto. Work with granddaughter on her AR a bit also. She has a School Trap match on Sunday.
    New life as a house husband, major shift in duties.

    Karl Marx said, "Destroy their culture, rewrite their history. Ruin their art and literature, and defame their heroes, by offering fabrications to scandalize that which they considered good.
    After reading this Obama said I am on it.

  7. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smitty901 View Post
    You may find some of the charts useful this one does show the 55 .223 and 5.56 62 50 and 36 yard zero
    Yeah that first chart looks a lot like my results with a 50 yard zero with 5.56. I like that zero with irons. Where I shoot most of the time a dead on hold will get an impact that way. If I can do that with an 8” plate I believe I could defend myself at many distances if need be. And if I need to reach a little further I can adjust my rear sight. I’ve modified it for improved bzo or the 50/200 meters. Just have to play with meters vs yards a bit more to really get the hang of it. Hell I think I shoot my iron sights more than anything. Just fun. Plus the 16” with the lantac is just fun to shoot. Stays flat.

  8. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smitty901 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by RedLion View Post
    Was it the 62grn Green tip penetrator ammo that you were shooting? If it is, it is really 3 moa ammo at best.
    Yes . And agree. Not all this bulk even name brand ammo is that good.
    Keep in mind the AR is an 18 inch WYLDE chamber 1 in 7. I fired some 77gr .223 Match 2790 FPS and it shot well however with it zeroed for 100 yards I had to use the 200 yard BDC to be on at 100 yards
    I shot some 69 Gr .223 match 2950 fps and it was right on at 100 yards and shot well. I have some sub MOA AR's Want I need right now is 2 inch at 400 yards . The direction I will be dropping that coyote , I just want to be extra careful.
    I want to try these same round in one of my Voodoo b16 inch 5.56 1 in 7 also just to see how they do. Also want to pick up some Match 5.56 in 69 and 77gr. The 62 gr 5.56 match I ave is 3050 Fps. Warm out now more fun sitting out on the range.
    Looks like this weekend a ride over to Sons place for some 500 and 600 yards stuff, with the 6.5 Creedmoore bolt and semi auto. Work with granddaughter on her AR a bit also. She has a School Trap match on Sunday.
    I agree with you on the 62’s. I’ve got some from IMI however that are pretty dang accurate.

  9. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Texas View Post
    I agree with you on the 62’s. I’ve got some from IMI however that are pretty dang accurate.
    Yo
    I do want to test the Federal Premium Match .223 69 gr on a day with less wind and without 2 pots of coffee in me.u can get some 62 gr that will tighten up a group. The bulk normal purchases like Red Lion said are about 3maybe 4 MOA out of the box.
    With a 200 yard zero they drop should be about 24 inches. And still have 1832 FPS
    New life as a house husband, major shift in duties.

    Karl Marx said, "Destroy their culture, rewrite their history. Ruin their art and literature, and defame their heroes, by offering fabrications to scandalize that which they considered good.
    After reading this Obama said I am on it.

  10. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smitty901 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Texas View Post
    I agree with you on the 62’s. I’ve got some from IMI however that are pretty dang accurate.
    Yo
    I do want to test the Federal Premium Match .223 69 gr on a day with less wind and without 2 pots of coffee in me.u can get some 62 gr that will tighten up a group. The bulk normal purchases like Red Lion said are about 3maybe 4 MOA out of the box.
    With a 200 yard zero they drop should be about 24 inches. And still have 1832 FPS
    What barrel are you using for this?

  11. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Texas View Post
    What barrel are you using for this?
    Right now an 18 inch 1 in 7 with WYLDE Chamber. If I can not get the groups where I want them. That will change.
    New life as a house husband, major shift in duties.

    Karl Marx said, "Destroy their culture, rewrite their history. Ruin their art and literature, and defame their heroes, by offering fabrications to scandalize that which they considered good.
    After reading this Obama said I am on it.

 

 
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