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45 vs 9 musings without starting a 45 vs 9 feud

10K views 70 replies 18 participants last post by  Hick Industries 
#1 ·
So I am a die hard 45ACP shooter. For probably the past 20 years I have been preferring 45ACP over any other caliber. Ok, I'd drop 45 for 10mm in a heartbeat but they don't make 10mm in all the variations I have 45 in.

Anyways, my current carry piece is SA XDS 4" in 45. Yes, i know... Why not a 1911... Well, my duty gun is an XD so while I have 1911s around the house, I am trying to stay consistent with my duty and carry gun so that I operate under stress the same way.

So back on topic... Buddy of mine stopped by and he had Sig 365... Wow... The trigger on it is smooooooth... Smooth to the point that boss lady asked me: why haven't you bought one yet :). Ok she didn't say that.... She just didn't oppose when I said I wanna go buy one. Now it's in 10 day jail and I can't wait to pick it up, but it got me to thinking again:
45 vs 9..... 9 is great, great capacity, feels great to shoot. But I have also seen cases where it took multiple 9mm rounds to take down the attacker as there wasn't enough oomph... But that's not an issue cause I have extra rounds.. right? But then again why do I want to carry extra rounds just to deal with lack of oomph vs carrying more oomph at a smaller capacity?

The world seems to be going to 9... Even my dept that was for years diehard 40 department, is going to 9s... Which makes me wonder - are we going to 9 for the sake reason FBI went from 10 to 40?

So how much of a difference in a similarly sized platform? For a flush mounted mag in the xds it's 2 rounds. Is it enough to be concerned ? Granted 2 rounds are TWO rounds but if I have to drop an extra round on each assaiIlant then I will be actually short rounds in a long run.

I do understand that not everyone can handle a 45... It does have more oomph to it then a 9 does and for some people it would require a lot of practice to be used to it and to be proficient with it. Nothing wrong with that.... 9 is also a good round.... But I don't see any advantage in switching to it....
.
 
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#2 ·
Ever been in a actual fire fight as in war zone, not some crack head pop shooting at you? It might answer a few questions if you have, if you haven't well here is why 9mm is better....
The enemy is different, they aren't shooting at you to just get away, they want you and anyone else dead so they aren't going to take that well of shot at you
Need more rounds to put their head down and each magazine change is time wasted
Follow up shots faster with less recoil
Ammo is cheaper and lighter to carry around
Has more penetrating power through materials i.e. clothing, drywall
I can go on and on but remember one thing, one size doesn't fit all in situations, pick per what your situation is or could be. The best weapon is the weapon you don't have to fire.
 
#4 ·
I have 45's darn nice ones even a double stack match grade. When I walk out of the house the 9mm goes with me. It is about SD not going to war. CC daily SD 9mm offers more rounds with good performance . In a lighter easier carry.
 
#5 ·
Love my (2) 1911s. Those are really the only .45s that really appeal to me. They are range toys only though, and maybe home defense in a pinch if I lost all the rest of the guns in a boating accident. For CCW, the Sig P365 is tough to beat for capacity and size with 10+1, 12+1, and 15+1 depending on the magazine.

I also keep a Shield in 40S&W in my BOB. We could bring the .40 into this discussion and really have a caliber war. :vs_smirk:
 
#6 · (Edited)
Things change as technology creates better ammo, powder and bullets. The same improvements that help the 9mm perform better are applied to the 45 so how much better is it really?

More rounds in a smaller package doing nearly the same damage. Easy choice. Of course the 10mm stomps the chit out of both of them so why bother?

The S&W M&P Compact in 9mm has been using 10,12,17 and 33 round stick mags for 10 years. Same mag as the Keltec Sub2000.
 
#7 ·
Both 9 and 45 will do the job. I personally like the largest piece of lead I am accurately place down range. Note: accuracy which means shot placement is what I believe to be key. The sig p 365 Has much to offer in a small concealable package. Reliability it huge when considering a firearm along with the ability to put rounds where you want them. The answers to these questions will vary somewhat from person to person. In the end chose wisely because not only your life but your families lives may depend on it.
 
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#16 ·
Some do a lot of men. what them at the range with their big guns
 
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#13 ·
Some interesting replies here. I'm going to have to disagree with one of them that states - if you can't take care of the issue with a 9mm then you need a rifle. While the ballistics on a 9mm have come a long way, there is still a lot of difference in the kinetic energy between a 9mm and 45ACP. If you dig back through the history, there is a reason why the army went to 45ACP. Also in speaking with some of the folks that came from a hot, dry and sandy place they indicated the deficiencies of a 9mm vs 45ACP in engaging combatants that have had been impacted by some substances. The issue of follow-up shots - that's a tough one as I have never had any issues getting the two to the body and one to the head (accurately at that) in same time or faster then most of the folks I shoot with (I have annual training refresher with a group for 19 additional shooters and the group varies each year and I get to compare my skill to that of others). Some will say - range, fine and dandy - no stress.... believe me, there is stress. Our range is equipped with smoke machine, sirens, strobes, flashing spot lights, moving targets and an ornery range master who wants to make sure you're on your game.

I do hear you o the issue of the lady of the house being able to use it as well - well, while my wife has come around to the topic of firearms being the necessary tool in the toolbox, I'm yet to get her to shoot. We are almost there, and yes - I have a 22 Walther and a 9mm Steyr that are so mildly shooting that her first time out should be fun.

Anyways, I understand that 45 is not for everyone - neither is 10mm (that's why we ended up with a 40 short and weak :D ). What stuns me though is the mass herd drive towards a caliber. For a while 40SW was the choice.... then suddenly things shifted and now it's 9mm. The addition of the optics is the game of the day as well - here I'll say - if you need optics on your handgun, you should be shooting a rifle :D Anyways, some good points by all, some amusing points as well :D
 
#15 ·
Some interesting replies here. I'm going to have to disagree with one of them that states - if you can't take care of the issue with a 9mm then you need a rifle. While the ballistics on a 9mm have come a long way, there is still a lot of difference in the kinetic energy between a 9mm and 45ACP. If you dig back through the history, there is a reason why the army went to 45ACP. Also in speaking with some of the folks that came from a hot, dry and sandy place they indicated the deficiencies of a 9mm vs 45ACP in engaging combatants that have had been impacted by some substances. The issue of follow-up shots - that's a tough one as I have never had any issues getting the two to the body and one to the head (accurately at that) in same time or faster then most of the folks I shoot with (I have annual training refresher with a group for 19 additional shooters and the group varies each year and I get to compare my skill to that of others). Some will say - range, fine and dandy - no stress.... believe me, there is stress. Our range is equipped with smoke machine, sirens, strobes, flashing spot lights, moving targets and an ornery range master who wants to make sure you're on your game.

I do hear you o the issue of the lady of the house being able to use it as well - well, while my wife has come around to the topic of firearms being the necessary tool in the toolbox, I'm yet to get her to shoot. We are almost there, and yes - I have a 22 Walther and a 9mm Steyr that are so mildly shooting that her first time out should be fun.

Anyways, I understand that 45 is not for everyone - neither is 10mm (that's why we ended up with a 40 short and weak :D ). What stuns me though is the mass herd drive towards a caliber. For a while 40SW was the choice.... then suddenly things shifted and now it's 9mm. The addition of the optics is the game of the day as well - here I'll say - if you need optics on your handgun, you should be shooting a rifle :D Anyways, some good points by all, some amusing points as well :D
If I were limited to FMJ ammo (like the Army), I would prefer the 45acp.

That not being the case, a 9 is just fine.
 
#14 ·
My wife joined Well Armed Women, and they convinced her the .38 Special snub she carried was not enough firepower.
So, she tried a variety of handguns and bought a Sig P-365. She is very good with it, too.
But, she still carries the .38.

We live in a very low crime area, the overwhelming majority of criminal activity involves drugs. Selling, possessing, stealing to get drugs.
The last killing was so long ago I’ve forgotten - 8 or 10 years. And that was two groups of high school boys fighting, one hit another with a ball bat and killed the kid.

I have a number of handguns, and pocket carry is what I do. A full size plastic fantastic with several extra magazines is just not needed.
I have a choice of three - .357 magnum snub, .44 Special snub, Ruger LCP2, which technically is a 9MM - 9X17.
 
#18 ·
My wife joined Well Armed Women, and they convinced her the .38 Special snub she carried was not enough firepower.
So, she tried a variety of handguns and bought a Sig P-365. She is very good with it, too.
But, she still carries the .38.

We live in a very low crime area, the overwhelming majority of criminal activity involves drugs. Selling, possessing, stealing to get drugs.
The last killing was so long ago I've forgotten - 8 or 10 years. And that was two groups of high school boys fighting, one hit another with a ball bat and killed the kid.

I have a number of handguns, and pocket carry is what I do. A full size plastic fantastic with several extra magazines is just not needed.
I have a choice of three - .357 magnum snub, .44 Special snub, Ruger LCP2, which technically is a 9MM - 9X17.
I think the point is that we prep and carry for the unexpected - not for what is historically the norm. I can't recall the last murder in my neighbourhood but then again, I venture outside of it and the bad guys venture in as well. The .357 and .44 are nice - but when someone told me that 45ACP makes it hard for followup shots, I'll have to say that these two definitely have an issue with followup shots. Though on the other hand, proper shot with 357 or 44 should be a one stop shot (pun very much intended :D )

The LCP is another story. 9mm kurtz - nice round for a pocket gun but based on some of my experiments at the range with it, it's my last go to. I have shot a mannequin wearing a jean jacket and the hollow point and it was inconsistent when it came to penetration. Don't take me wrong - I'll take my LCP over nothing, but it's my backup or my backup to my backup ;)
 
#30 ·
.357 magnum is the best all around handgun.
If I could only have one handgun, it would be a double action .357 with a 4" barrel.

As far as not being able to make quick follow up shots with a .357 snub, in a stress situation I grip my shooting hand wrist overhand with my support hand.
Works like a charm. Even with 44 magnum.
 
#19 ·
We live on a dead end dirt road six miles outside a one stop light town of 2,000.
The two other nearby towns we visit are pop 1,000 and 4,000.
In the 50 years since I got out of the Army I’ve never had to shoot at another human being.

I’m good.
 
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#20 ·
We live on a dead end dirt road six miles outside a one stop light town of 2,000.
The two other nearby towns we visit are pop 1,000 and 4,000.
In the 50 years since I got out of the Army I've never had to shoot at another human being.

I'm good.
I've watched a lot of reruns of forensic files and there's plenty of stories like yours. Nothing bad in the little town happened, until it did.
 
#21 ·
As I have said before, my go to door at zero dark thirty guns are a S&W 44 mag, S&W 41 mag, and a 45, not all at the same time.

Anyone of them will do a one shot stop, I like big bores for that reason.

When out and about, what I carry depends on where I am going and the possible threat level.

My most common carry guns are a Sig 228, and a S&W 1911 in SS with a green laser.

The 1911 is loaded with military ball ammo and the 9 MM with SXT to increase lethality.

I use only Wilson-Rodgers SS mags in the 1911 and SS S&W mags as spares for the Sig, when needed I carry 3, 20 round Sig factory mags.

Shot placement is the most important thing, I have no trouble recovering the sight picture with either.
 
#27 ·
I'll just leave this here...
View attachment 109525

:icon_surprised:
Ahhh, but the Remington .357 Magnum Golden Saber reliably and consistently expands to .62" out of a 2" barrel.
Low flash powder, mid-range on the .357 "horsepower" scale.
It is good stuff, I believe Golden Saber also comes in 9MM Parabellum +P as well. I could be wrong on that, though. I don't keep up with 9MM +P because my only pistol chambered in that caliber is a post war Walther P-38 that will not handle +P.

Also, that graphic fails to mention that 45 ACP is most often 230 grain, whereas the heaviest 9MM is 147. I can not speak to the .40 S&W.
 
#61 ·
Love the 18mm theory ;)

Interesting to see so many folks carrying 357. If it wasn't that I like the slimness of a single stack and the quick reloads from a mag that probably would have been my second choice.

As I said, I am thinking btw about betraying my 45ACP.... Got a sig 365XL that I'll be picking up next week... I'll see how I like it. The trigger felt good on dry fire, but I'll have to see how I like it at the range.

What strikes me though as I already mentioned someplace above is the fact how many folks state: but it's quiet here after stating their carry choice. This almost means to me that they wish they had something with either a higher caliber or more rounds and they're using the 'peace' to justify what they got.

Ok, pulling my stick out of the anthill before I run :)
 
#67 ·
I've lived outdoors, never had much use for pistols.

Got an 45 ACP and disgusted me with accuracy, but I'm used to rifles. The pistol < 25 yds

Got a M29 and it took a while to get used to , but then I could hit liter bottles at 75 yds, flip woodchucks the same. I got into hunting with that . Not a rapid fire multiple target weapon, but I can hit stuff.

So one big hole, or a few misses and hits?
 
#68 ·
So I am a die hard 45ACP shooter. For probably the past 20 years I have been preferring 45ACP over any other caliber. Ok, I'd drop 45 for 10mm in a heartbeat but they don't make 10mm in all the variations I have 45 in.

Anyways, my current carry piece is SA XDS 4" in 45. Yes, i know... Why not a 1911... Well, my duty gun is an XD so while I have 1911s around the house, I am trying to stay consistent with my duty and carry gun so that I operate under stress the same way.

So back on topic... Buddy of mine stopped by and he had Sig 365... Wow... The trigger on it is smooooooth... Smooth to the point that boss lady asked me: why haven't you bought one yet
. Ok she didn't say that.... She just didn't oppose when I said I wanna go buy one. Now it's in 10 day jail and I can't wait to pick it up, but it got me to thinking again:
45 vs 9..... 9 is great, great capacity, feels great to shoot. But I have also seen cases where it took multiple 9mm rounds to take down the attacker as there wasn't enough oomph... But that's not an issue cause I have extra rounds.. right? But then again why do I want to carry extra rounds just to deal with lack of oomph vs carrying more oomph at a smaller capacity?

The world seems to be going to 9... Even my dept that was for years diehard 40 department, is going to 9s... Which makes me wonder - are we going to 9 for the sake reason FBI went from 10 to 40?

So how much of a difference in a similarly sized platform? For a flush mounted mag in the xds it's 2 rounds. Is it enough to be concerned ? Granted 2 rounds are TWO rounds but if I have to drop an extra round on each assaiIlant then I will be actually short rounds in a long run.

I do understand that not everyone can handle a 45... It does have more oomph to it then a 9 does and for some people it would require a lot of practice to be used to it and to be proficient with it. Nothing wrong with that.... 9 is also a good round.... But I don't see any advantage in switching to it....
.
Its clear to me that you should buy a couple pistols in 10mm, and not worry about compromise.
They hold more rounds than 45, and they hit a lot harder that 9mm.
 
#69 ·
I personally have nothing against the 10MM, but it has been a dead horse around here for 20+ years.

None of the dealers carry ammo for them or guns either for that manner, if one comes in used, it goes on G-broker, won't sell locally.

Now in today's market with the shortages, can you even find any for sale that you can get???

I have had dealers call me for ammo none have asked for the 10MM, plenty of request for 45, 9MM para, 38 spcl., 357, 380 but no 10MM.

This is not a time to be changing or adding a caliber.

Joe Bitme claims he is shutting down all online sales of guns, ammo, parts, mags to stop evil people from building guns from parts.
 
#71 ·
I started looking for a nice 10mm four yrs ago. Several carry guns advertised, but I never saw one in a gun store.
I was more interested in a long barreled pistol, designed for hunting, and predator defense.

I found a new Sig 220 at a gun show. I was glad to find it, and the dealer offering it, seemed glad to move it.
Since I already handload 40 cal ammo, I do not worry much about buying ammo.
 
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