Opinions of a .308 Battle rifle. - Page 5

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Opinions of a .308 Battle rifle.

This is a discussion on Opinions of a .308 Battle rifle. within the HandGuns, Pistols and Revolvers, Long Rifles, Shotguns, SKS, AK, AR forums, part of the Weapons, Protection, Self Defense, Hand to Hand Combat category; Originally Posted by Smitty901 An M14 reworked to match grade is not a standard issue weapon never was never will be. The Remington M24 would ...

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Thread: Opinions of a .308 Battle rifle.

  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smitty901 View Post
    An M14 reworked to match grade is not a standard issue weapon never was never will be. The Remington M24 would leave the m14 in the dust. They issued the m14 because they were sitting in inventory. You could request them . No standard 150 gr issue was not sub MOA ammo. Never at any time. It was 2 MOA at best. The wood did split and break.
    You are comparing two different weapons systems.

    Without a doubt your bias for the AR10/M16 is evident.

    How can one compare a match grade M14 to a match grad M24?
    Last edited by WhatTheHeck; 01-13-2019 at 08:14 PM.

  2. #42
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    If you want a real comparison, look to the SCAR trials.
    There is a reason why the FN was first, the HK a very close second, and the Colt a very distant thrid.

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by rice paddy daddy View Post
    If I’m a little hard core today, I just came from the funeral service of a Brother, a Marine.
    Late to the thread as usual. My deepest sympathies for your loss and I will still pray for you and your fallen brother in arms.

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  5. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smitty901 View Post
    Few older people here are going to trash me.
    The m14 was in standard issue from about 1959 to 1970. They were replacing them mid 60's already That is not long. Sadly in the real world the M14 failed. They had been looking for a replacement most of that time. The real value of the 308 was in the automatic weapons the M60 and the 240 versions. The m14 had a lot of variations and it was used as a sniper rifle and is still used today by some designated marksmen but that is fading. The 308 was also chosen for the M40 and m24 Remington sniper rifles That were ahead of their time back then.
    We know standard issue is not the only time a weapon is used so yes the m14 was around before and after. The M14 was to long to heavy for most mission requirements. Funny part the M16 was also found to be to long. That is another reason you got the m4 version.
    There is a good likely hood the 308 may fade away in US military once the new version of the 6.8 is rolled out. It will not be over night but likely to happen. The sniper rifles are moving to 300 win mag more and more. The M60 long gone 240 is not used as a Squad machine gun. And the current Squad SAW 249 will be replaced with 6.8. of some type.
    It hurts but truth gets buried by myth and hype. Due to failings of the m14 the M16 was first considered in about 1957. The AR10 had been seen as better than the m14. But was passed over.
    Smitty, The M14 is the last true battle rifle. I've heard the pros and cons, read what the pundits have to say, but an AR 10 is still an AR. Those who grew up on the M14 platform don't see the AR being able to take the abuse of the M14.

    Some will argue the AR 10 is more accurate, but that is questionable (depends upon who is behind the trigger.) IF there are any differences in accuracy, they are marginal, at best. Those with M1a rifles will not be as easily swayed to change platforms and if the need arises, an M1a with military parts will get the job done.

  6. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smitty901 View Post
    Your right on why it was designed . But the truth was it failed from the start in most every way except a couple. Had it not been for politics the AR10 would have been chosen . It was well known it out preformed the m14 in every way. It was politics that stopped the m16 in 1957.
    The m14 in full auto was pretty much uncontrollable . It made a good so called sniper rifle but even then the weight was a draw back . The Remington m24 heavy barrel had great range and was more accurate. The m14 I own is put away. I really don't own it. It was entrusted to me by someone that had to let their weapons go. I will some day past it on to his son that is in the 82nd. He does not even know the weapon is still around. His father gave it to me but I know where it belongs.
    At one time the military had to many options on weapons. The battle has long been to reduce that.
    IMO there is no machine gun that will fit all3 needs . Light , medium and heavy. The light and medium can be combined. It won't happen now but the AR10 was the answer. It could well end up being some form of the 6.8.
    Not everybody feels like you do. Hook Boutin helped me build a rifle many years ago. I wanted him to build it, but he was past 70 and said he wanted a few of us to learn how to work on their own weapons since he wasn't going to be around forever.

    After building that rifle, we went into Hook's back yard and he shot a five inch group with iron sights that you could cover with a quarter. That rifle has always been more accurate than I am. So, that is sufficient enough.

  7. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Resister View Post
    Not everybody feels like you do. Hook Boutin helped me build a rifle many years ago. I wanted him to build it, but he was past 70 and said he wanted a few of us to learn how to work on their own weapons since he wasn't going to be around forever.

    After building that rifle, we went into Hook's back yard and he shot a five inch group with iron sights that you could cover with a quarter. That rifle has always been more accurate than I am. So, that is sufficient enough.
    You are very fortunate to have one of "Hook's" works of art. Even more so to have met him. He had quite a legacy

    Boutin, Gerald J. | Georgia Public Broadcasting
    The Resister likes this.

  8. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Resister View Post
    Not everybody feels like you do. Hook Boutin helped me build a rifle many years ago. I wanted him to build it, but he was past 70 and said he wanted a few of us to learn how to work on their own weapons since he wasn't going to be around forever.

    After building that rifle, we went into Hook's back yard and he shot a five inch group with iron sights that you could cover with a quarter. That rifle has always been more accurate than I am. So, that is sufficient enough.
    Not about how I or anyone feels it is historic fact The M14 was a failure it is not the magic rifle it has been hyped up to. Yes with work it can be made to be a great bench shooter. But then again the other options of the the day were better.
    New life as a house husband, major shift in duties.

    Karl Marx said, "Destroy their culture, rewrite their history. Ruin their art and literature, and defame their heroes, by offering fabrications to scandalize that which they considered good.
    After reading this Obama said I am on it.

  9. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by WhatTheHeck View Post
    You are comparing two different weapons systems.

    Without a doubt your bias for the AR10/M16 is evident.

    How can one compare a match grade M14 to a match grad M24?
    The early m21 and m25 were issue sniper versions .m24 was an the issue sniper weapon in 308 that pushed both of them to the back row. Still is to some degree . It was based on a Remington 700 not a M14.
    Myth say the M14 stood up to heavy use , fact was it did not it did ok and had many revisions. The issue M14 was not the great sniper rifle myth made it out to be. The goal with the M14 was a good one. But the weapon that came out of the idea failed in every way. That is why it was canned.
    The weapons people spent $1,000's on today are not the same weapon the M14 was. History was clear on what the m14 turned out to be. Before it was even issued they were searching for a replacement. The manufactures of the AR10 at the time were not ready for the big stage. No way they could meet production requirements. Had they even been close it would have been chosen over the the M14. Some weapons got it right for their time. The m1 Garand , the 1903 Springfiled some did not really shine like the Enfield.
    The m14 was suppose to take the m1 Garand to a new level and improve on it. Did not come out that way they tried. Maybe they set the bar to high for the M14. Even the m21 and m25 version were pushed to the second row very quickly.
    History often does not often follow the hyped up versions pasted on. Sure modern m14 custom modified rifles make great Match bench guns. But do not confuse them with the issued m14. I never said the M14 was junk. It was a failed battle rifle.
    Last edited by Smitty901; 01-14-2019 at 03:57 AM.
    New life as a house husband, major shift in duties.

    Karl Marx said, "Destroy their culture, rewrite their history. Ruin their art and literature, and defame their heroes, by offering fabrications to scandalize that which they considered good.
    After reading this Obama said I am on it.

  10. #49
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    I've used the M16A1 and the M21.

    I own a couple AR15 rifles, a Ruger SR762 (Their piston-driven AR10 rifle) and a Springfield M1A Scout version.

    My preference between the SR762 and the M1A is the M1A. Why? Both are dependable and both are piston-driven which keeps the fouling away from the bolt, so why would I grab the M1A? Simple. To me, it's about ergonomics.
    RedLion likes this.
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  11. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Denton View Post
    I've used the M16A1 and the M21.

    I own a couple AR15 rifles, a Ruger SR762 (Their piston-driven AR10 rifle) and a Springfield M1A Scout version.

    My preference between the SR762 and the M1A is the M1A. Why? Both are dependable and both are piston-driven which keeps the fouling away from the bolt, so why would I grab the M1A? Simple. To me, it's about ergonomics.
    I do like piston better. I have piston AR15's to compare them to and they run cooler and cleaner. Advantage to DI less moving parts, less total parts
    Denton and RedLion like this.
    New life as a house husband, major shift in duties.

    Karl Marx said, "Destroy their culture, rewrite their history. Ruin their art and literature, and defame their heroes, by offering fabrications to scandalize that which they considered good.
    After reading this Obama said I am on it.

 

 
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