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Question for LEOs about gun transport

This is a discussion on Question for LEOs about gun transport within the HandGuns, Pistols and Revolvers, Long Rifles, Shotguns, SKS, AK, AR forums, part of the Weapons, Protection, Self Defense, Hand to Hand Combat category; Originally Posted by StratMaster I remember back in the early to mid '90's when Oregon went to a "must issue" CWP as opposed to the ...

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Thread: Question for LEOs about gun transport

  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by StratMaster View Post
    I remember back in the early to mid '90's when Oregon went to a "must issue" CWP as opposed to the formerly very limited issue as per the Sheriffs discretion. We were in the knife biz at the time, and were marketing/selling a knife we designed for military/LEO... so we rubbed elbows with a lot of cops.
    LEO muckity mucks didn't quite know what to expect at first, so we heard through a few officers that they had been instructed: if a citizen with a CWP was pulled over for something minor, the officers were to let them go with a warning rather than write them up.
    Sure enough, maybe a month later me and my girlfriend are pulled over... bulb was out in the brake light, legit stop.
    He starts getting out his book right away to write a ticket. I told him I had a screwdriver AND bulbs in the glove box, but he was insisting on the ticket nonetheless.
    Goes back to his cruiser to check me out.
    Comes back and asks with a scowl "are you packing"?
    "Yes officer".
    "Is it on you, or just in the car"?
    "I have a .45 holstered over my right hip".
    He was obviously very angry - NOT my usual experience with LEO at ALL.
    "Get that thing fixed then," he says and storms back to the cruiser in a huff.
    Of course, now things are adjusted, everybody is used to it, and no problems to speak of.
    I have been pulled over twice in the last 22 years in Orygun. Both times the LEO asked me if I was carrying as they walked up to the vehicle. It is linked to the ODL. I keep my hands on the wheel unless told otherwise. Both times the LEO was very understanding. One even asked what I carry and then started talking to me about the "Pros and Cons" of that model.
    Michael_Js likes this.
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  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smitty901 View Post
    Not really the point is to make it clear. keep your mouth shut. First thing they claim is I did not understand my rights.
    Half the time, your rights suddenly don't exist when you're interacting with LEOs.
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  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Back Pack Hack View Post
    Half the time, your rights suddenly don't exist when you're interacting with LEOs.
    Your rights always exist . Once a LEO reads you the Miranda card you are likely already arrested. Before that they can ask question , you do not have to respond except in some cases. In Wisconsin you do not have to produce an ID. However if driving you must produce a License . If you do not ID your self and office may detain you to figure out who you are.
    Many years of riding I have many times been stopped in places like Milwaukee and other bad cities at 2 -3am. generally heading some where but in an area where LE has good reason to wonder about. Only a couple times have I encounter a jerk.

    Wisconsin:
    "State law limits what concealed carry data police can access, and even how they can analyze their own data.

    Police in Wisconsin are allowed to consult the database of concealed carry permit holders only to determine whether a permit someone has or claims to have is valid, or whether someone lied on their permit application.

    Statutory language also bans police from storing information they obtained under the allowable circumstances, and they cannot “sort or access information regarding vehicle stops, investigations, civil or criminal offenses or other activities” based on the person’s permit status....."
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  5. #44
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    But starting the name calling served no purpose. If the cop had a body cam, the driver just lost all chance of beating the ticket in court. He should have followed his own advice and just kept silent.

    I fail to see why name calling and such makes you guilty of anything when the LEO was being so evasive of questions asked by the driver. In cop shows I've watched its always just tell the truth, but they don't seem to be able to. I have a close friend on the local PD, talks straight and to the point. He doesn't need backup, he is a black belt, but never has used that to bully anyone. Is the officer intentionally holding his weapon or just a natural stance?
    A wise man once said, "Never argue with an idiot, anyone watching will not know who is who".

  6. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smitty901 View Post
    Your rights always exist . Once a LEO reads you the Miranda card you are likely already arrested. Before that they can ask question , you do not have to respond except in some cases. In Wisconsin you do not have to produce an ID. However if driving you must produce a License . If you do not ID your self and office may detain you to figure out who you are.
    Many years of riding I have many times been stopped in places like Milwaukee and other bad cities at 2 -3am. generally heading some where but in an area where LE has good reason to wonder about. Only a couple times have I encounter a jerk.
    ........"
    Unfortunately, that's not the way it always goes. People get arrested for walking down the street taking photos. People get arrested for jogging and they don't have a physical ID with them. People get arrested quoting the law as it's written. People get arrested for asserting their right to remain silent because the LEO lies and says you MUST answer.

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  7. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1skrewsloose View Post
    But starting the name calling served no purpose. If the cop had a body cam, the driver just lost all chance of beating the ticket in court. He should have followed his own advice and just kept silent.

    I fail to see why name calling and such makes you guilty of anything when the LEO was being so evasive of questions asked by the driver. In cop shows I've watched its always just tell the truth, but they don't seem to be able to. I have a close friend on the local PD, talks straight and to the point. He doesn't need backup, he is a black belt, but never has used that to bully anyone. Is the officer intentionally holding his weapon or just a natural stance?
    Cops and judges are “people”. Some good. Some bad. Some jackasses. But most all people take offense at being cussed or yelled at. So when the driver goes into court, and the judge views a recording of the driver swearing and name calling, just who’s version of the traffic stop is the judge going to believe? Truth-be-told, the driver would probably have little chance of beating the ticket under the best of circumstances. He will have no chance if this body cam recording surfaces. I’m not defending the cop. He was acting like a jerk. Especially since he said turn at the intersection, not the driveway. I’m just saying the the driver is only hurting himself by sounding off like that.
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  8. #47
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    You are correct, just give me the ticket and I'll be on my way. Agreed.....a driveway is not an intersection. What about this crossing county line and out of his jurisdiction? I forgot, they have the right to pursue a suspect cause they had the lights on. Do they teach this in cop school? Btw, I'm getting a dash cam, see them being sold on TV all the time, to prove who is at fault in an accident. To add, we all should have body cams the way things are going!
    A wise man once said, "Never argue with an idiot, anyone watching will not know who is who".

  9. #48
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    I thought it curious that the guy had laminated sheets of the law with him. And the LEO asks him if he is a lawyer.
    A wise man once said, "Never argue with an idiot, anyone watching will not know who is who".

  10. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Entryteam View Post
    First.....pretextual traffic stops are illegal on most states. So there is that. Further, a CCW permit is NOT PC for a stop OR a search. You are NOT required to answer ANY question about what is or is not in your vehicle, and REFUSAL to answer any question is NOT PC for a search either. It may talk you into a ticket, but they have got to have a criminal action/violation in order to even stop you in the first place. Otherwise, you will eventually profit from the lawsuit which should follow.

    Hope this helps,

    -E
    Addressed very well already. I will add this. Arizona does NOT have a CCW database attached to the AZDL, and DPS here treats CCW information as confidential. That being said, every state is different, but what is NOT different is your rights under the Constitution.

    I guess that spending my career in Arizona, which has always been an open carry, then a concealed carry, then finally and wisely...a constitutional carry state...I never got worked up over a gun in a car. I assumed there was one. Meh. It's a right, not a privilege and unless you're obviously impaired...and as long as you don't play with yours, I won't play with mine...and we can conduct ourselves like adults, there was not going to be a problem.

    I appreciated someone telling me beforehand if they were armed, and it earned MAJOR points on the scale of Citation or Verbal Warning and how it got tipped.

    "Officer, I just want to let you know...I have my permit, and I am carrying. It is in a holster on my right hip. Here is my license, registration, and insurance card. What would you like me to do now?"

    "Cool, thank you for letting me know. Please, don't touch it, and I won't have to touch mine okay?" - Absent a warrant, or any obvious signs on intoxication, my usual closing of the contact was "Thank you Mister Driver. I pulled you over because your right brake light is out. There's a 24 hour AutoZone down the road, why not stop and get it replaced before someone hits you or you get a ticket. Have a nice night".

    "You're not going to write me a ticket?"

    "No, I mean...I can if you want me to...but I'm pretty sure you're not a desperate criminal or otherwise nefarious character, so just get it taken care of okay?"

    "Um...sure"

    See, I was never a traffic whore...but about once a month a lieutenant would come into briefing and say we had to do more active enforcement on the traffic side...so to make him happy, I'd ramp up my verbal warnings (which actually drove him crazy). But the reality is in the district I worked we had more to worry about than extremely minor equipment and minor speed violations, so making some decent regular guy's day longer and writing BS punitive citations was not on my list of shit to do. Woe be unto you if you were DUI...but I gave warnings whenever I could.

    Some folks are going to scream about the 2nd and 4th Amendment and having no duty to inform ad illegal search and seizure...okay...I get it, and I agree with you. BUT...what they're not taking into consideration is this: If you let me know that you're armed out of courtesy, then reciprocated courtesy would flow in your direction too because you're inasmuch as telling me "By the way, I have nothing to hide" because while the presence of a gun is NOT probable cause for a search in AZ, it is a pretty good indicator that you are not worried about anything you have in the vehicle anyway, you're not nervous about what I might find if I did search, and so I am not going to even ask for consent to search. Your attitude, demeanor, and general disposition don't pique my Spidey Senses...you fall into the "Card Carrying Good Guy" group, so have a nice day and be safe.
    Slippy and Michael_Js like this.

  11. #50
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    I live in PA and I have already decided that if stopped in my home state, I would do exactly as Ken stated above. And unless the cop is a total butt hole I don’t think I would have a problem. My concern is when I travel thru Maryland. Md. is not as bad as NJ or NY, but they are not very gun friendly and I have heard horror stories where folks were forced to spend a lot if $ to retrieve their legally transported guns that were confiscated unjustly. If possible, I would just prefer the trooper stopping me down in Maryland not know anything about any weapons I have in my possession. That’s my reasoning for asking about probable cause and such. Some anti-gun DAs and some police seem to purposely and unjustly confiscate legally transported guns just so they can force you to spend your money in court to reclaim your guns. And Maryland is full of anti-gun liberals.

 

 
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