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Christian Warriors... or... When to NOT turn the other cheek

This is a discussion on Christian Warriors... or... When to NOT turn the other cheek within the General Talk forums, part of the General Discussion category; I have served on a multi-faith panel that was formed to aid in celebrating the similarities in the many faiths. I was disappointed to find ...

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Thread: Christian Warriors... or... When to NOT turn the other cheek

  1. #41
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    I have served on a multi-faith panel that was formed to aid in celebrating the similarities in the many faiths.
    I was disappointed to find that it was easier for "people of faith" to condemn others than it was to agree that we each seek and serve the creator.
    The most adaptive people on the panel were Jews, then the non-denominational ministers (like me) and then Pagans (although they seem less tolerant of the different off-shoots of Wicca).
    I am not what most would call "fundamental" nor am I "liberal" but I do see the Creator as large and powerful enough to tolerate the different names used by different religions and nationalities. Conservative Christians and Muslims seem to be the least tolerant of different names - expousing that you must believe in the name they use for the Creator or you are against the Creator and a collaborator of the devil.
    I am well versed in the history of the Christian and Muslim religious wars and the history of the Hebrew battles for the "Holy Land".
    We are each born with a right and will to defend ourselves and our loved ones. That is a gift from the Creator and it is our duty to do so when it is necessary. I have no fear of dying but I also know that if I am being called there is nothing I can do to stop it. I will fight to save those who are with me until the Creator takes it out of my hands. Part of that requires me to help those who will accept it and walk away from those who will not.




  2. #42
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    How'd my dad say it? "If ya don't believe in my religion, you're all going to hell, and I'm going to help you on you're way!" As you can tell my day wasn't what you'd call tolerant. Until he had his first heart attack. Then all of a sudden he seemed to understand, our beliefs are our beliefs.

  3. #43
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    I'm evangelical. Not fundamentalist. I don't hate people. That's a common false belief about serious Christians and unfortunately some of the loudest Christians are hateful.

    I don't hate people but I hate their sin as much as I hate mine.

    I am living an increasingly better life now through faith and I hope and encourage them to find that same peace.

    Also a lot of confusion between calling out someones sin vs judging them. If I talk to someone about their transgressions its not judging their eternal soul, it is pointing our their temporal weaknesses and how it is holding them back from living life fully.

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  5. #44
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    You see, I don't feel qualified to call something that someone else is doing a sin. I don't know their mind and I certainly don't know the mind of the Creator. I can fill my time trying to improve me - without trying to get others to improve themselves. "God's work" is best left to God - we are not strong or wise enough to do it.




  6. #45
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    Preppers/Survivalists might like to try Christianity because "mindmelding" with Jesus logs us onto his power which begins downloading into us, it's a POWER thing..
    Bear Grylls said "My Christian faith is my backbone".

    "Everybody tried to touch Jesus because power was coming from him" (Luke 6:12-19)
    Jesus said -"Someone touched me, I know that power has gone out from me." (Luke 8:46)
    And we too can "touch" him to get a power download by just mumbling a few words such as "Jesus remember me" when we're tired, lonely, fed up..

    Works for others too-
    On Christmas Eve 1968 the crew of Apollo 8 quoted from Genesis as they orbited the moon- "We are now approaching lunar sunrise and, for all the people back on Earth, the crew of Apollo 8 has a message that we would like to send to you- "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth..."

    "God bless you" -Neil Armstrong in a TV broadcast from Apollo 11 thanking the spacecraft builders and technicians

    John Glenn said from space- "To look out at this kind of creation out here and not believe in God is to me impossible, it just strengthens my faith"

    And Roger Chaffee said of the view of Earth- "The world itself looks cleaner and so much more beautiful. Maybe we can make it that way, the way God intended it to be"

    Nearer home, Edmund Hilary wrote- "I buried a small crucifix in the snow on the summit of Everest as Sir John Hunt had asked me to do"

    "Thank God for everything, without him none of this would have been possible"- Usain Bolt, fastest man in the world

    In the TV series "Escape to the Legion" the recruits were allowed to keep one personal item in their lockers, and Grylls chose his Bible (circled)-




    Grylls in his SAS days-



    This verse is what sets true christians apart-
    "We fix our eyes not on what is seen, but on what is unseen, since what is seen is temporary, but what is unseen is eternal" (2 Cor 4:18)



    In other words Christians don't take the world seriously and therefore don't get drawn into its stress and worry..
    "You were dead when you followed the ways of the world" (Eph 2:1/2)
    Last edited by Lucky Jim; 03-30-2013 at 03:01 PM.

  7. #46
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    After his wild younger years Johnny Cash became a Christian and this song illustrates the POWER it gave him-


  8. #47
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    I think with this you need to break it down. Split it into two parts. I think for the most part when Jesus speaks of enemies he is talking of people, friends, relatives, others whom you may have disagreements with in your interpersonal relationships, and that we should try to turn the other cheek and rise above the argument, get past it. In the old testament by contrast this seems to mostly deal with traditional enemies e.g. standing armies marching against you, it also deals with criminals and how the state and you should respond to this threat or aggression. So that is the way I always look at it. You have it broken down into law for nations and then law for individuals.

    Unfortunately a lot of mainstream Christians don't see the difference or perhaps don't study their bibles as much, only go to Church once in a while and don't really have a great understanding of the faith other than what they hear or are told by their minister. Some take this to extremes for example the Christians of Nigeria take turning the other cheek to such extremes that they could end up seeing their whole nation become islamicized and their own deaths, demise or forced conversions by the sword.

    Jesus didn't say, "If someone rapes your wife, give them your daughter as well," or "if someone steals your car, offer them your house too." He commands that we love our neighbour as ourselves, not more than ourselves.

    As far as the prepping side of things is concerned I think the Story of Joseph in Egypt is one of the big one's to look at and consider. Also the Jews escaping from Egypt and trusting in God to provide for them.

    I think for sure you try as much as possible to help other fellow citizens, allies, people of God, the poor, the little abandoned girl in the example out in times of difficulty were you can, and you meet force and traditional enemies and aggression with any force necessary to subdue them.

  9. #48
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    Two boys pushed an out house off the cliff. The next day their dad said who pushed the out house off the cliff an the boys sai we did it and their father beat the hell out of them. The boy reminded their dad about the story he told them of George Washington chopping down the cherry tree and not getting into trouble because he didn't tell a lie. In which their dad responded yes but George Washington's dad wasn't in that cherry tree.

    It is always easier to tell someone else they should turn the other cheek.

  10. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Inor View Post
    Are you out of your mind?!?!

    The last war that was waged in the "name of Christianity" ended in 1291 with the last Crusade. I guess you could say the American Revolution had a religious component to it since the British Bishops refused to ordain any American Bishops and that would have spelled the end of the Anglican Church in America. But they solved that one without bloodshed.

    So tell me, was it Catholics that drove airplanes into the World Trade Center on 9/11? How about those Methodists that blew up the Pentagon the same day? Was it Lutherans that shot up Ft Hood? But I guess it was a Christian that blew up Oklahoma City - OOPS! He was a devout ATHEIST! But, I am sure you will say the Buddhists and Shintos are the great peace-loving people - Tell that to the family of the Pearl Harbor victims. But the Hindus - yeah, ask somebody that was in India in 1948 and watched them (literally) chop the heads off the separatists.

    But coming in at #1 in the "all time hit parade of murderous thugs" is:... The Atheists and the agnostics. Yep - your guys Mao, Stalin and Hitler murdered more people than all of the other despots of history combined. Of course that does not include the Khmer Rouge, Castro, Che or any of your other lesser known heroes. (Do you have a Che T-Shrit? If not, you should get one; all the hipsters have them.)

    Are American Christians pissed? You bet we are! Europe has gone mostly secular (including Rome). Central America is a cesspool. This is/was the only place we had left on the planet where we could practice our faith the way we wanted to - without interference from you or the government. Now idiots like you try to lay a guilt trip on us for our beliefs? Eff you Jack!!!!
    Burkecj is certainly entitled to his/her opinion as wrong as it is. I think you may some good points Inor. I would actually argue that even the Crusades were not fought by Christians, perhaps maybe CINO's.

    If Christianity promotes killing innocent people then Christianity must be questioned. If Islam promotes killing innocent people then Islam must be questioned. I can't see any other options.

    Islam's Quran teaches, as Muslim governments are to be at war and carry arms against the world if the world rejects Islam. This is evident the moment one starts looking into the Quran. and is the main reason why Palestinian teenagers wrap themselves with explosives and blow up a Jewish bus, it is the main reason why Sheikh Omar Abdull-Rahman orders the bombing of American buildings in New York. The issue is not political only, but a commandment from Allah.

    Some Muslims might object to the bombing of the World Trade Center building in New York, but no Muslim fundamentalist denies that Jihad (Holy War) is not a commandment by Allah. It is part of the Islamic pride that is evident in the world today.

    The pen is part of the master plan of converting the world then the sword. To some westerners a suggestion that such a plan is in the making would be unlikely, but if you search for the words Muslim and Jihad in today's world, you will soon find that it is not a new word anymore, it is added daily to our newspapers, journals and English dictionaries.

    What is the real fear Muslims have from Christian missionaries if Muslims are confident that Islam and the Quran shall stand on their own?

    If Muslims believe that any logical mind can find the absolute truth the moment one reads the Quran. Then why should Muslims be "protected" from the Bible? Why do they need threats of death and fatwas to guard their beliefs if it is correct?

    Can the mass murder in Sudan Africa be considered peace and justice? Why are Muslims throughout the whole world so determined on destroying Christianity? Why are Muslims throughout the whole world so determined on destroying the Jewish people in Israel?

    Why are Muslims not fighting countries like Russia, China and Japan, which the majority are atheist?

    While Muslims are looking forward to destroy Israel, lets look at some of these recent wars, take for instance the Soviet-Afghan war, at one time 80,000 Muslims were killed by the Soviets within 48 hours alone, and we ask: Why is there no condemnation by the Arab and Muslim world for all the Muslim blood spilt by the hands of the atheist Soviets?

    Why is the hatred towards Jews in Israel while Muslims in Afghanistan were butchered by the masses from the Soviets?

    Is it possible that the USSR (and now Russia) is the best friend to most Islamic and Arab nations? Since the USSR (now Russia) is the main weapon supplier for many of the Muslim and Arab governments. Why is it that every army of these nations carry Russian made AK47 rifles. Is it possible that the Muslims do not want to bite the hand that feeds them? Did Israel ever kill 80,000 Muslims within 48 hours?

    The most ironic thing is that the destruction that went on in Afghanistan was caused by the Afghans themselves after defeating the Soviets.

    In the Afghan capital every building in site was demolished, and the city was completely devastated. There was total destruction of the city. Every man's sword was upon his brother, and every faction claimed to be Muslim. The whole of Kabul was completely levelled.

    Today we see the same thing elsewhere in the world, in Syria, Jordan, Lebanon, Egypt and elsewhere. More Muslim blood is split by the hands of other Muslims. Muslims are not on their own the problem but the actual religion Islam is especially when they follow it to the letter.

    The Bible tells true believers to prepare for the Muslims for battle. It encourages them to be ready for the war, Muslims and others are about to announce;

    "But I tell you who hear me: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you. If one strikes you on one cheek, turn to him the other also." (Luke 6:27-28).

    In another verse in the Bible he foretells this persecution: "A time is coming when anyone who kills you will think he is offering a service to God." (John 16:2b).

    Does that verse fit Muslims and Nazis, since the Nazis got the support of the Catholic to support the Nazis on their persecution to the Jews?

    You might ask: Are not Catholics Christian?

    I say: anyone who follows the teaching of Christ is a Christian, "He who has my commandments, and obeys them, it is he who loves me" (John 14:21).

    But Anyone who claims to be Christian who goes around killing Muslims, Jews, and Protestants can hardly be called Christian.

    A Christian follows Christ, that's why they call them Christians.

    The principle that you follow should be the title that you hold. To be a Christian you must follow the Bible. And since the Bible does not promote the kind of violence that the Crusaders did, we must conclude that they did not follow good Christian principles. For that, they are responsible for their action, and not Christianity, which is the whole point we are trying to make.

    In Islam, on the contrary, the Quran as proved is very different, it promotes killing unbelievers, it promotes subjugating Christians and Jews.

    The Bible, on the other hand teaches Christians how to suffer: "Who is afraid of dying? Who is afraid of a threat from any quarter? Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall trouble or persecution...or danger of sword? As it is written: `For your sake we face death all day long; we are considered as sheep to be slaughtered. No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through Him who loved us.'" (Romans 8:27-35).

    As a Christian I do not hate muslims, homosexuals or anyone else, even atheists and agnostics, these are people who are sinners just like anyone else, just like you and I, and people as Christians we are meant to love, support and try to help. Just because we do not hate them, but do disapprove of the practice and rightly condemn it, does not mean we are haters or homophobic as some may like to label us. We just recognise it for what it is according to our faith and God. I don't know of any Christian who wants war. It is something that as a nation you only go to as a last resort when all other avenues have failed.

    In the Bible some people are so wicked that God commands their destruction because none good can be found amongst them. There are many people like this in the world today, a lot within terrorist groups and practicing terrorism. They have been around since ancient times. Final point is in the Balkans we were helping to stop a genocide against Muslims. As Christian nations, If we are haters and against Muslims, why would we have gone to their aid?
    Inor likes this.

  11. #50
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    Remember that those who practice Islam are not all terrorists and not all terrorists practice Islam. There are fanatics within every faith and you should have your eyes open to the person - not their "faith".




 

 
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